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 Posted - January 08 2010 : 1:45:01 PM
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I just ran some trains today for the first time in a while. I decided to get a plastic motored MU2 SF F9 and run it. It was one of my earlier wins from the Internet and it never ran very well but was a nice looking example. When I cleaned it up I made sure the nonpowered wheels were very clean and did that improve the performance. I would say that it ran alot like a regular MU2 powered Mantua Tyco.
It occured to me that I don't see many of these at auction. Also that these might be a good way to repower old Power Torques. If using to repower an Alco you'd have to deal with the sideframes since they used the Blomberg truck. Also when were they made in relationship to the power torques? I'm thinking they came out around '74-'75 according to the catalog. Btw they were produced in Austria.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 08 2010 10:03:02 PM
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Posted - January 08 2010 : 3:36:50 PM
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Here you can see the Plastic MU2 style motor and that it uses the same truck bogey as the PTs. I haven't tried to fit it into an Alco 430 since this is the only Plastic MU2 I have. I believe there is a better picture in the Tyco Collectors Resource Site.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 08 2010 9:57:53 PM
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Posted - January 08 2010 : 4:50:58 PM
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BriansTyco has some really nice pictures of other Tyco motors for comparison on the post below.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1221
It looks like maybe the Austrian produced MU2 is found in the SF F9 shown from '75, the SF Freight Warbonnet, from '75-'76 and the UP F9 from '75-'76 and maybe in the CR version.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 08 2010 10:02:30 PM
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Posted - January 08 2010 : 11:21:48 PM
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Was Tyco making these at the same time as the Spirit of 76 C430s? I know the earlier 76 430s had the metal MU-2's. Then the Deluxe F7's (or w/e they were called) had some form of MU-2 in them as well did they not? Would the plastic MU-2s have fit in between the two?
I have two of these F7s in CN paint.
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 08:17:20 AM
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I think they could have been selling the Mantua MU2 C430s, in the So76s, at the same time or within a year of the Austrian MU2 according to the catalogs.
I think the Austrian MU2s could have been made at the same time as the last Mantua MU2s and the first Mantua Power Torques were sold.
The '74-'75 catalog shows the 244 So76 C430 that is an Mantua MU2 and 225H which is the Austrian SF F9.
Were the CNs cataloged with the Plastic MU2s?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 09 2010 10:55:52 AM
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 10:47:22 AM
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Don't forget the Hong Kong plastic MU-?
Most likely this design was a transitional thing I think the plaxtic MU came out at the same time as the first generation C630 look at the 73-74 catalog.
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycocatalogs/id6.html
Ray
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 10:53:03 AM
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Do you have a picture of that example Ray?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 09 2010 10:56:39 AM
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 11:33:32 AM
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I posted photos of this in another thread that discussed this topic.
The shells and weights of the Austrian and Hong Kong MU-? F9s look the same. But the drives have minor differences and most parts DO NOT interchange.
These are the Hong Kong trucks.
These are the Austrian trucks.
Ray
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 1:04:46 PM
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They do look the same. Thanks for the pictures.
Have you tried these motors in other Tycos like the Alco?
BTW nice NYC paint job.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 09 2010 1:06:18 PM
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 1:35:46 PM
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quote:They do look the same. Thanks for the pictures.
Have you tried these motors in other Tycos like the Alco?
BTW nice NYC paint job.
Originally posted by Alco Fan-January 09 2010: 1:04:46 PM
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Look a little closer at the side frames. Particularly the journal boxes. Where they mount to the bottom cover are different so the side frames do not interchange.
I believe you can put these drives in a Power Torque shell without modification.
Yea, the NYC is a costom paint job. Thanks.
The tank on that shell is home made (carved from a block of wood) and the shell was modified to mount it. The plastic post on top of the shell that holds the original weight broke off.
Ray
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 1:55:14 PM
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By "Plastic" MU-2 I assume we're talking about the truck mounting/swivel "gimbal" being plastic as oppsed to the more common metal one?
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
Edited by - romcat on January 09 2010 1:59:16 PM
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 2:31:47 PM
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Actually the motor block is plastic where the regular Mantua Tyco MU2 truck frame was bent metal.
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 4:10:08 PM
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quote:| Were the CNs cataloged with the Plastic MU2s? |
I never realized they made two different plastic MU-2's The one on my CN is the Hong Kong version. I don't see it in any of the catologs on the Tyco Resource.
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 4:43:43 PM
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Would you post some pics of your CN?
I just found a post I wrote about 2+ years ago on this that may have some interest.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1279
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 4:44:55 PM
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Thanks for the memory jog, Ray. I was given a Tyco F7 with the plastic MU-2 as a birthday present in 1975, but it was the Hong Kong version, not Roco. Everything seemed to crack on it: screw holes split, tabs snapped off, etc. It took a lot of repairs to keep it running. Were the Roco made units any more durable?
I guess doing contract work for Tyco is why Roco was able to put an MU-2 motor clone in the Alco C-424 they made for AHM.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 4:54:12 PM
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Ray had this post about the Austrian and Hong Kong MU2s in 2005.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 5:06:18 PM
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quote:
Wow, That's been awhile ago.
Thanks for finding that.
Ray
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 7:07:15 PM
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quote:| Would you post some pics of your CN? |
Here's one of them...I'm pretty sure there's a second one hiding somewhere. Both are in need of some repairs.
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 8:50:30 PM
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Thanks Ray and Cheez for your pics.
It looks like the SF passenger version and blue and yellow War Bonnet was done in Austria. The CN is Hong Kong. I think the UPs are in here somewhere. Are there more?
Ray, do you remember what the NYC was before the new paint?
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 09 2010 : 11:36:07 PM
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Wow, Ray's post was pretty informative... I had no idea that was even here! Feel kinda stupid about my own F-unit guide. I think I'd noticed the differences (screw vs snap-in) but never paid much attention to it.
I agree these seem to be a very temporary drive system, released at the same time as the Rivarossi 630 and the MkI PowerTorque. Since the Plastic MU-2's were only used in outsourced F-units, they may have been a stop-gap before Powertorque production was fully ramped up. So for a short time Tyco had 4 different drive systems on the market (5 if you were to count the original MU-2)... Makes one wonder what the impetus for that was. I surmise it may have been some sort of "field testing" to see which design won out, but that's a stretch. IMHO the plastic MU-2 can't hold a broken knuckle to the metal one, in either performance or quietness. It really is a compromised implementation of a proven design - a perfect case study in how cheaper materials and looser build tolerances is not always a good thing.
Not to mention that single-screw fuel tank, as suspended from one pitifully narrow and brittle post, has got to be one of the cheapest, stupidest things I've even seen designed in the hobby. I want to say every one I've seen was broken. Only good fix I found was Walthers Goo on the sides, and some cable ties as it sets.
I've seen these in So76, SF blue and red, UP, and of course Cheez's CN. I would rather have Powertorques, myself, but they're an interesting collectors' oddity. I'll have to compare mine for the differences Ray pointed out.
Curious to find an AHM C424 with one of these drives in there. Tyco must have known it was crap if they licensed it away!
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Posted - January 10 2010 : 12:44:38 AM
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quote:Ray, do you remember what the NYC was before the new paint?
Originally posted by Alco Fan-January 09 2010: 8:50:30 PM
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It was an AT&SF (red and silver)
In fact, all of the plastic MU2 F units I have were. I repainted another pair in CN. I'll have to see if I have a photo or if it got lost in the computer crash.
I also have a dummy B unit with the plastic trucks. (Hong Kong)
Ray
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Posted - January 10 2010 : 08:30:54 AM
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F7/F9 Tyco locos reported with the Plastic MU2, PMU2.
So76, ?
SF, Hong Kong and Austria
UP and nonpowered A, ?
CN, Hong Kong
Maybe in the Amtrak colors too?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on January 10 2010 11:44:29 AM
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Posted - January 10 2010 : 10:11:34 PM
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| I've got the Sof76 version, but it's in bad shape. I can get pics if anybody wants them. When working on it, I had a lot of trouble getting the copper contact plate to stay in place. It would always slip and rub against the gears. Still, for a locomotive that had a mud dauber (wasp) nest stuck on it when I got it, the thing runs pretty well.
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Posted - January 11 2010 : 07:36:45 AM
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Burlington 77,
Thanks pics would be great. What does it say on the bottom of the trucks Hong Kong or Austria? I think it was only manufactured around '76.
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 12 2010 : 7:55:20 PM
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quote:
Curious to find an AHM C424 with one of these drives in there. Tyco must have known it was crap if they licensed it away!
Originally posted by GoingInCirclez-January 09 2010: 11:36:07 PM
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Tony, I didn't mean to imply that the AHM Century had a plastic MU-2 truck. It had this MU-2 style motor that snapped into the center of the chassis, powering the front truck.
They ran pretty well, but were very noisy. I replaced this with a can motor and flywheel.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on January 12 2010 8:50:13 PM
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Posted - January 12 2010 : 10:19:27 PM
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Nelson,
I see the PMU2 and the AHM MU2 type motor are similar. The AHM is mounted upside down compared to our MUs.
I also think the PMU2 I have is quieter than the MU2 in my Prez Seal Alco So'76 and it seems to perform good pulling the same load.
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 12 2010 : 11:21:43 PM
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| I can verify that the plastic mu-2 is found on Amtrak versions as well....
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Posted - January 13 2010 : 06:16:52 AM
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Thanks Adams for the info.
I'm sure the SFs passenger units and UPs had nonpowered A units and I think I saw nonpowered Bs for SF.
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 24 2010 : 8:12:53 PM
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Here are the two locos I have. Sorry it took so long to get pics. Neither loco is in great shape, they're both things I "salvaged" so to speak:
Santa Fe and Spirit of 76 (the sticker was ruined):
The rear trucks. Santa Fe on top and So76 on bottom. The So76 had a broken coupler pocket, so for a quick fix I glued on a Kadee gearbox with an Athearn coupler. Don't judge me.
The front trucks. Hong Kong on top, Austria below.
That's about it. The Santa Fe runs fair, but the So76 has serious issues. I'm surprised it runs at all given how rusty the motor was.
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Posted - January 25 2010 : 9:01:13 PM
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Thanks for the reply Burlington77. Interesting your SF is Hong Kong and mine is Austria.
Alco Fan
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Posted - January 26 2010 : 12:30:48 AM
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| It seems to be original, but of course I can't make any claims since I got it in a lot on ebay. It was really just an afterthought, because it came with some Athearns that I wanted.
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Posted - January 26 2010 : 5:22:18 PM
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Burlington77,
I'll bet it is original just as you found it. It makes me wonder why Tyco would have the same roads built buy 2 manufactures in different places. If one collects Tyco then that gives you more to hunt.
Alco Fan
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