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 Posted - January 20 2015 : 11:59:18 AM
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A few weeks back I bought an ebay listing for a PCC trolley. The listing also happened to include a small trolley very closely resembling a Tyco trolley. As it turns out it is the very same tooling Tyco used but this car was made before Tyco acquired the molds. Apparently just a clone!
I believe these were made in the late-50's. They have slightly more detail than their Tyco counterparts including operating trolley poles and a little driver. They were sold by a company known as "The HO Train Co."
The drive in my trolley is 2-wheel pick-up and 2-wheel drive. The bottom of the car is stamped "Japan".
Edited by - DaCheez on January 21 2015 8:49:29 PM
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 12:24:19 PM
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Looks pretty nice! Can the catenary be used for power?
Tim
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 5:47:07 PM
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I likes it
Still need to find one of these to covert it to look like the Birney in Ft Collins, CO 
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waw47
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 6:04:43 PM
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DaCheez, what is your source for "As it turns out it is the very same tooling Tyco used but this car was made before Tyco acquired the molds." ?
WAW47
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 9:27:33 PM
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quote:DaCheez, what is your source for "As it turns out it is the very same tooling Tyco used but this car was made before Tyco acquired the molds." ?
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â January 20 2015Â :Â 6:04:43 PM
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I found similar info at this site, where I learned a bit more about early Tyco trolleys.
https://traintalkbloggers.wordpress.com/tag/mantua-trolley/
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 9:33:56 PM
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Huh. Very interesting oddity. Even the name of the manufacturer is weird.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on January 20 2015 9:34:16 PM
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waw47
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Posted - January 20 2015 : 11:45:59 PM
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Jerry
The article appears to be inaccurate. They stated that the HO Train Company started importing the "Made in Japan" Trolley sometime after WW2, probably in the early 1950's. By the 1960's Mantua acquired the tooling and was manufacturing the trolley under the Tyco name. In fact, Mantua started producing the trolley in 1952 or earlier. The "Made in Japan" Trolley was sold in the USA through-out the 1950's into the early 1960's by various import companies, at the same time Mantua/Tyco was marketing their version. The most likely scenario is that the Japanese cloned the Mantua Trolley.
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 12:20:41 AM
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Good looking trolley, Eric... But I really like the other one you have! 
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 12:27:04 AM
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That's a great little trolley!
I don't see any reason why the poles couldn't be used. They could either be used as an additional pickup, or with a little work, the trolley could probably be converted to a pure overhead unit by wiring the poles and flipping one wheel set and pickup around.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 09:41:20 AM
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quote:Jerry
The article appears to be inaccurate. They stated that the HO Train Company started importing the "Made in Japan" Trolley sometime after WW2, probably in the early 1950's. By the 1960's Mantua acquired the tooling and was manufacturing the trolley under the Tyco name. In fact, Mantua started producing the trolley in 1952 or earlier. The "Made in Japan" Trolley was sold in the USA through-out the 1950's into the early 1960's by various import companies, at the same time Mantua/Tyco was marketing their version. The most likely scenario is that the Japanese cloned the Mantua Trolley.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â January 20 2015Â :Â 11:45:59 PM
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 It does look somewhat like a knockoff of sorts. A knockoff that's actually better than the original, of course (in terms of detail).
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 1:56:25 PM
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quote:Huh. Very interesting oddity. Even the name of the manufacturer is weird.
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â January 20 2015Â :Â 9:33:56 PM
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It's another alias of Nathan Polk, aka Aristo Craft or GHC. The box (on the other site) even says "GHC Approved".
Is it possible that the early Tyco trolley, with this style of mechanism, might actually be this same trolley, imported and sold by Mantua?
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 4:31:29 PM
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My only source for Tyco acquiring the tooling was the site Jerry listed. Now that I look at the Mantua HOSeeker page I see the trolley listed in 1955. What motor/frame would Tyco have used in the 50's before the MU-2 made its first appearance?
I also found an old TF thread about a trolley similar to mine. There are difference though (metal frame, single trolley pole).
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8169
Well...I'm all confused now. 
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waw47
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 5:09:37 PM
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DaCheez
The HO Seeker site has a March 1953 diagram of the Trolley under Mantua Diesel Diagrams / Part Numbers section. I have a similar diagram in my collection dated December 1952. This indicates the existence of the Mantua trolley in 1952 or earlier.
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 6:02:39 PM
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quote:My only source for Tyco acquiring the tooling was the site Jerry listed. Now that I look at the Mantua HOSeeker page I see the trolley listed in 1955. What motor/frame would Tyco have used in the 50's before the MU-2 made its first appearance?
I also found an old TF thread about a trolley similar to mine. There are difference though (metal frame, single trolley pole).
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8169
Well...I'm all confused now.
Originally posted by DaCheez - January 21 2015 : 4:31:29 PM
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(Re-edit) OK, I think the one in the other thread is the Silvine/Greenline trolley mentioned in this yet-another thread which I dug up from a reliable source :
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15390
Since this place seems to be the source of all that is weird old HO.
Also present is a picture of the original non-MU2 Tyco trolley drive which is noticeably not the same as the Japan drive. It's the same design, but uses the old reliable PM-1.
So anyway now at least this explains one thing that had puzzled me, which is why Mantua would design the Trolley with a short wheelbase and then fit it with a motor truck that didn't match - because their original design, with the PM-1, did have a short wheelbase, with small wheels even, before it was replaced by the MU-2.
So this backs up waw47's theory; it would seem like the sketchy importer types knocked off Mantua's original trolley, even as far as copying the original drive. The little trolley must have been a popular seller to deserve all the 'attention', since evidently both Nathan Polk (Aristo etc.) and Sol Kramer (Silvine) were selling knockoffs.
Edited by - Autobus Prime on January 21 2015 6:27:59 PM
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 8:53:14 PM
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Geez, the hole just goes deeper and deeper. At least the mud is getting a little clearer. Thanks for all the info! I think there's more info in this thread than there was on any of the sites I found through google combined.
Edited by - DaCheez on January 21 2015 8:53:39 PM
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Posted - January 21 2015 : 10:06:35 PM
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quote:Geez, the hole just goes deeper and deeper. At least the mud is getting a little clearer. Thanks for all the info! I think there's more info in this thread than there was on any of the sites I found through google combined.
Originally posted by DaCheez - January 21 2015 : 8:53:14 PM
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This is why I love this forum. No lack of good people.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - January 22 2015 : 09:42:06 AM
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quote: quote:Geez, the hole just goes deeper and deeper. At least the mud is getting a little clearer. Thanks for all the info! I think there's more info in this thread than there was on any of the sites I found through google combined.
Originally posted by DaCheez - January 21 2015 : 8:53:14 PM
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This is why I love this forum. No lack of good people.
Originally posted by RDC1Â -Â January 21 2015Â :Â 10:06:35 PM
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Exactly.On top of that, I love uncovering the mysteries or whatever of these things, or at least learning about them.
I love
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - January 22 2015 : 11:22:53 PM
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| Regardless of the origin, it seems a nice unit. I like the lettering with the "pay" and "enter", and the rivets, or whatever, show up nicely. Nice find Eric. Keep the photos of your inner city trolley layout coming along. It looks quite fun . . . and compact!
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