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 Posted - April 14 2012 : 12:51:52 PM
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VERY NiCE Frank! Now, if I could find a 2-8-0, to begin my conversion to the Vauclain that the B&O had, I'd have it made! 
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - May 12 2012 : 7:23:10 PM
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Well concerning Camelbacks. The Model Railroad Craftsmam's June addition arived today. A CNJ K1 4-8-0 camelback is on the cover and a 4 page article is inside. Pages 55 to 58. Ther are 12 more photos of the loco in the artice along with 2 prototype photos. The photos and article are by my son steve. The loco was kitbashed by son steve. I dont know if I can post the cover. So I'm not doing it.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on May 12 2012 9:08:12 PM
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Posted - May 12 2012 : 10:50:40 PM
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Happy Mother Hubbard's Day, everyone. 
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Posted - May 16 2012 : 2:55:51 PM
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quote:Here is my kitbashed mantua 4-6-0 with more work done to it.
toptrain
I still need to add two more handrails one to the pilot and the other to the lower smoke box front
Originally posted by toptrain - May 16 2012 : 12:28:06 PM
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Frank, that loco behind your Camelback, is that a Mantua and have an old metal tender? I can't tell forsure but it sure looks like it!
As for the Camelback, looks REALLY good, but how ya gonna take some of that "open space" from the rear of it where the trailing truck was? (I am looking to build a 2-8-0 as I had mentioned a few times and merely gathering ideas on how I'm going to attempt it!)
Looks GREAT so far!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - May 16 2012 : 6:23:08 PM
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nice locos guys
I'd like to know if the Life-Like Old Time Teakettle loco was real or not?
Who made it & what railroad(s) used it? 
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 09:00:51 AM
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| hi frank the look great,just the thing for a big boy to play with,have fun ken
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 09:33:10 AM
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quote:hi frank the look great,just the thing for a big boy to play with,have fun ken
Originally posted by catfordken - May 17 2012 : 09:00:51 AM
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kenny. I think we both fit that discription.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 09:52:46 AM
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| you are right there,after all no matter how accurate the model,they are made to play with,not look at,we have museums for that ken
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 2:06:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by toptrain - May 17 2012 : 08:48:02 AM
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Frank, where did the drivers come from, Bowser? They look good.
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 2:52:54 PM
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They really improve it. I thought I could see the red insulators.
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 8:31:22 PM
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Frank,
VERY nice custom work on that ole girl!
You know those drivers you used? You could have used drivers from an old John English model as well, they are the same spoked versions and are a direct fit inplace of the Mantua's!
I've done this to a Mantua 4-6-2 normal cab, to back date it from the drivers supplied from the Mantua factory.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - May 18 2012 : 10:28:09 AM
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CNJ L3s #634 is one of my camelbacks.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on December 12 2012 6:45:56 PM
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Posted - May 19 2012 : 11:43:33 PM
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I think this is my first camelback, got it at the Timonium, MD train show last year. It's a Mantua engine, with plastic body on the engine and the tender. It's missing the drawbar between the two, so I haven't tried it yet. But it looks little-used, just dusty. While holding it and moving it around, the bell on the top moved, and I thought I'd broken it. Turns out it actually SWIVELS, I was surprised to find a plastic part like this where the bell and horseshoe bracket aren't molded together. Nice detail!
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - May 21 2012 : 06:27:07 AM
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Jerry,
Yes alot of Mantua steamers have that moving bell with the u joint that holds them and then a tiny screw holds it onto the boilerr.....
Makes for a nice added detail to add chain or even a simulated rope to it for the added "bling" to the model!
I've done alot of mine with the rope and even chain on the larger locomotives and it actually looks really nice that way!
Lucky guy tho, I'm looking one more of each, the 0-4-0 Goat, and the 0-6-0 Goat from Mantua as I have one of each of the Camelback "Goats" from Mantua....As my whole collection is based off of 2 of everything, except for freihgt cars.....Which is as many as Godly possible!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - May 25 2012 : 08:57:08 AM
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* I have started on my next kitbashing project of a Camelback. Two of my Bachmann Reading I-10 rearcab 2-8-0s were chosen for this. One was painted for the Union Pacific, the other the Santa fe. I started by removing the drives from them. Then the floors from the tenders. I striped all handrials from these bodies. Next I cut away the rear cabs. I have been removing all details from one body. The Reading I-6 has different sand dome so even the sand dome will be removed and the bodies filled in. That is where I am now.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on June 05 2012 08:22:41 AM
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Posted - June 05 2012 : 08:45:55 AM
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* I have seen photos of other peoples kitbashing projects. They always look so nice. Before redetailing, the bodies smoothly sanded with few imperfections. Except for mine, I have never seen what someone else's look like before all the filling with putty. When I look at mine after I have cut out all the cast on detail that I needed to remove It is in real bad shape.
* I always imagine that they, Those other modelers have that great control of their #11 exacto blade, their vision so prefect they manipulate their blade point with expertise and fineness. With a Wisk of the blade the slight imperfection it cut perfectly away. Leaving a smooth, perfect contort to the model being worked on. Now me if I survive the cut without nicking one of my fingers and causing immediate first aid, I am thankful for that the nick, or cut is in the side of the model and not my hand.
* Well back to the project at hand !
toptrain
Lehigh Valley 2-8-0 camelback
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on December 31 2015 08:48:26 AM
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Posted - June 05 2012 : 2:57:51 PM
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This looks like an interesting project, Frank. Cut with the blade away from your hands, btw.
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Posted - June 11 2012 : 4:02:06 PM
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quote:This looks like an interesting project, Frank. Cut with the blade away from your hands, btw.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â June 05 2012Â :Â 2:57:51 PM
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I havent cut my finger in a week.
toptrain
toptrain
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Posted - June 11 2012 : 9:14:47 PM
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Just in case...
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Posted - June 11 2012 : 9:33:09 PM
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Thats all to funny guys!
I cut to the extent of the detail removal so that only a small amount of that detail is left behind, this allows me to "sand" the boiler smooth with a fine cut #1 oe # 2 mill file.....Better then using sand paper only because sand paper leave "second scratches" and they are difficult to cover or remove so a file does wonders.
HOWEVER, my files have been "milled" I chuck mine in a milling machine, and remove that "edge" for cutting off the file this keeps that edge when in use for gouging the plastic! Also nice to make really square 90 degree corners for windows and such things.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 7:17:00 PM
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I obviously know nothing about all the engines that have been built over the years
That said I do not see the advantage of this design.
Some where i read it distributes the weight over the wheels for better traction, that could be an advantage
O K so it can burn soft cheap coal because it has a larger fire box. Why couldn't a conventional engine have a large fire box
For my education
I studied the Wikpedia pictures and the photos and i don't see how they operate.
They say the cab is between the boilers. So if the fireman is firing the rear boiler how does the front get heated or are their pipes running between the two under the cab?
seems to me would be incredably hot for the engineer with both your back and front exposed to a boiler. and your feet
I did see the pice with two sets of pistons, one for each boiler, that would be a lot of power and make sense
It makes for a cool model much like the Shay geared but seems to me not your typical engine for the average guy''s layout
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 10:02:28 PM
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Fred, the "Camelback" was designed in such a way the the firebox was so big (wide) that a cab in the normal place made impossible to see around to the front of the locomotive. As it was tried, and the engineer hung out the window alot more then normal just to see the front of the engine to see the "way" so to speak...
So, because the firebox was made so big to burn special coal, they moved the cab forwards of the firebox. this was to aid in visability.
Which made the locomotives more acceptable was that they did burn cheaper coal, which allowed the railroad to save some cash, and the cost of a camelback wasn't much more then a conventional locomotive.
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 10:06:30 PM
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verytrue EM-1 but it did have one fatal flaw Occasionally the drivers would break free going into the cab in the middle thus killing whoever was in the cab But I don't believe that happened often
I meant driving rods
Edited by - microbusss on November 10 2012 10:12:38 PM
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 10:23:57 PM
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Yep Ben, your right! It was the only flaw of the Camelback.....Sadly, not many were made with piston valves as most were slide valve steam chest! which was a restriction on there speed!
Other then that, they were good steamers for the most part.
The main rod, break a bearing was seldom, as that was lack of maintenance to the king pin or in some cases the bearing..was oiled often enough!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 11:00:15 PM
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they moved the cab forwards of the firebox. this was to aid in visability.
so as i understand the cab was between the firebox and the boiler, so how can the fire box heat the boiler. from all the pics you show there is a boiler behind the cab and one in front
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Posted - November 10 2012 : 11:11:29 PM
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went back and studied pics again
looks like the cab straddles the boiler and the engineer is standing on one side. That had to be hot
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Posted - November 11 2012 : 12:32:22 AM
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Fred,
Yes my friend it was "Thee Hot Seat" the cabs on the Camelbacks wasn't pleasant at all, as far as I know and have heard.
The little area behind the cab where the firebox door was, had a "shelter" (if you want to call it that) for the fireman......They had seats for everyone as if I'm not mistaken the cabs on these steamers was just slightly bigger then its conventional counterpart.
Frank,
Talk about a good conversation piece, huh? I'm lovin' every second of it!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 11 2012 : 11:51:07 AM
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The only Camelback I own, a Mantua Reading 2-8-2 #1608. Recently rebuilt tender and brand new pilot wheel screw
 sorry for the out of focus
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - November 11 2012 : 10:26:37 PM
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quote: quote:Fred,
Yes my friend it was "Thee Hot Seat" the cabs on the Camelbacks wasn't pleasant at all, as far as I know and have heard.
The little area behind the cab where the firebox door was, had a "shelter" (if you want to call it that) for the fireman......They had seats for everyone as if I'm not mistaken the cabs on these steamers was just slightly bigger then its conventional counterpart.
Frank,
Talk about a good conversation piece, huh? I'm lovin' every second of it!
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â November 11 2012Â :Â 12:32:22 AM
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I can see you like to end your post with a abuse and you are loving every second of it.
Oh just to let you know here is the opening message of this topic.
*I hope this becomes a topic for photos of our Camelback type locomotives. A place some could go to see what trains of this type look like. Not a place to pat a person on the back, or say I want one, where did you get it, Oh I like the color, That is such a different locomotive. And all the other niceties involved with written communication. If you want to talk PM the person. Here is just a place for the photo, and info on a particular camelback. Or if you have information on the particular locomotive, or model train, to help the poster of the photo and those here at the Tyco Forum. If a photo does move you enough, or your interest in the engine is great. Please PM the person who has posted the photo with your statement or question.
Administrator, and Moderators, if my request isn't proper please delete this topic.
Originally posted by toptrain - November 11 2012 : 09:55:54 AM
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Frank,
I'm sorry but this was a learning possibility for someone else, and I wasn't about to PM the person to have to go from a PM to the actual topic the learning process was mentioned in the first place. Its much to difficult!
Sadly, this is the type thing that if you don't have a tough skin, some might not bother anymore and sadly, I have to say this hobby has its issues, running people off should NOT be one of them, and to that, thats the LAST thing this hobby needs!
Sorry you wanted this topic, pictures only, BUT I have to say, if someone had read that it was "picture posting only" how many you think would add to it, UNLESS they had the actual model of the posted topic model?
And as for my "ending" comment, it is a nice conversation piece.....IF your looking to end that well, thats your issue and I'll be sure not to bother any single posting that has you as the author, as simple "chat" on trains is WELCOME anywhere on the whole site, unless Admin. states to me differently!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 11 2012 : 11:17:26 PM
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It seems painfully obvious to me, but why not just put the engineer's cab forward of the entire boiler, like a cab-forward? I would think visibility would be amazing with no boiler in front of you, and it would eliminate the possibility of the connecting rods harming you. Not enough protection? How about above the cylinders, so that the cab front is flush with the smokebox?
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Posted - November 12 2012 : 07:34:49 AM
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I Just took an updated picture of my Mantua Goats:
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - November 12 2012 : 1:36:11 PM
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quote:It seems painfully obvious to me, but why not just put the engineer's cab forward of the entire boiler, like a cab-forward? I would think visibility would be amazing with no boiler in front of you, and it would eliminate the possibility of the connecting rods harming you. Not enough protection? How about above the cylinders, so that the cab front is flush with the smokebox?
Originally posted by Islanderh93Â -Â November 11 2012Â :Â 11:17:26 PM
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The Calmelbacks were designed with a huge Wootten firebox to burn poor grade coal as a cost savings. Cab Forwards were possible because they were oil burners, so the fireman could be in the cab and not stranded out on the tender deck. Not that you could shovel enough to move a 4-8-8-2.
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Posted - November 28 2012 : 5:05:17 PM
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| I think what he means is 'why not put the engineer's cab way up in front of the boiler, and have the fireman on the rear of the boiler'? It would make sense to me, as it's similar to how marine propulsion works; the stoking mechanisms used to be at one end of the engine room, while the operator is at the other. Meanwhile the captain is on the bridge. Through the use of a sound-powered telephone, commuication is not usally a problem, but we can always send a messenger up.
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Posted - December 12 2012 : 7:20:37 PM
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| I think on of the main reasons the cab was not put in front was that engineers didn't want to be up front, in case of a crash. This was a concern for cab forwards as well, although engineers came to appreciate the unobstructed view. N&W ran their diesels long hood forward for the same reason.
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Posted - December 15 2012 : 09:32:54 AM
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* **** A Story about the first Camelback locomotive. ****
* *** The first Wootten firebox locomotive was built as type of a rear cab locomotive. ***
* The Reading Railroad in January 1877 had a 4-6-0, # 408, rolled out of the Reading shops. It was their first Wootten firebox equipped locomotive. Was this the beginning of the Cameback locomotive. No it wasn't. Number 408 had on its aft end a large standard cab. It was written that it appeared as any of the previously built Millholland styled " Gunboats " which the Reading shops had been turning out for the last 10 years. It is hard to believe that 408 with its apparently oversized firebox could be confused with a standard Millholland locomotive.
* Now when did the Camelback come into existence? All photos I have seen of #408 is as a camelback. Now that I have read the " Railway and Locomotive Historical Societies Bulletin number 141, I know when it happened. More importantly, WHY it happened.
* When you look at the photo of 408, because of what we have seen, it doesn't appear to be too big of a locomotive. In fact it weighted 100,000. pounds It was at its time the largest locomotive on the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad ! This heavy weight was the cause of its first problem. It occurred when on its first test run, this chubby loco, when crossing the Port Clinton bridge, the sound of the wood supporting rafters creaking, and cracking, was noticeably heard. The bridge was reinforced.
* Her large rear cab became a clearance problem when passing through a tunnel. It didn't fit well. The tunnel was worked on to clear away this problem.
* The firebox itself wasn't working as well as it was reported it should. Wootten made design changes correcting this problem.
* Well with all this happening to 408, and the railroad, you might think the Reading had enough of 408 and its firebox. These things are comon when testing new designs. The Reading went ahead with building more Wootten firebox equipped locomotives. Next, the second, was # 88, another 4-6-0 with smaller drivers for freight work. The third was a exact copy of 408, #412. These next 2 both had rear cabs when built. 412 when done was put on a boat and sent to Paris France for the " Paris Industrial Exhibition there. It was the only American locomotive at this show. The newspapers were critical of its appearance, but liked it new technical advances. After the end of the Exhibition the P&R was invited to run its engine of the Northern Railway of France. It was just prior to these trials that the cab was moved forward. The change was made before the trials on the Northern railway. So to me this means that the first camelback was completed and run in France. it was just a test trial of a American design. The Wootten firebox or Camelback wasn't a French innovation.
* In the spring and summer of 1878 the first passenger wootten engine was being carefully designed. While this was happening a half dozen 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 were built and put on the road. All Camelbacks.
* In September a 4-4-0 camelback #122 was completed and started out-running everything else on the main lines. The camelback design not only has had its start, but has come into its own.
* *** # 412, a 4-6-0, is noted to be the first Camelback locomotive. ***
PS. Maybe Not.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on January 28 2014 09:48:36 AM
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Posted - December 16 2012 : 3:10:26 PM
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** I have given a second look at what info I have on Millholland locomotives. I found a side elevation drawing of a boiler. Also some print on the engines he had made. What I found is that as early as 1850 Millholland designed a furnace especially to burn Culm, waste anthracite coal. His design wasn't as wide as Wootten's firebox. Wootten improved on the Millholland design.
* Information I have found in the book " The Iron Horse " by Comstock, says that the cab on 412 was moved up during the locos trials in France because of the restricted right -of-way clearance there and in Italy , also where the engine 412 was run, made it necessary to remove the cab from the top of the firebox and bring it forward. No mention was made of who's idea it was. For all I know a French or Italian engineer may have deigned the first center cab of a camelback locomotive. I have never found any report of the trial runs Locomotive 412 made in France and now also Italy, other than they were a sucess.
** Remember PS Maybe not !
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on January 28 2014 09:43:20 AM
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Posted - May 07 2013 : 5:38:41 PM
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*** My son Steves Decapod camelbacks hit the road, The Railroad ! ***
** It is official. The ANNA Railroad has 2 Decapod Camelbacks. The only other ones were on the ERIE roster,( New York, Lake Erie, and Western,) Numbers 800 to 805. They had 6. The only real ones made. The ANNA's 2 are # 412 and 434. Some photos by Steve.
 
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on May 09 2013 11:51:48 AM
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Posted - May 07 2013 : 5:43:58 PM
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| real sweet locos frank,your son sure knows what hes up to ken
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Posted - May 09 2013 : 11:59:16 AM
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Ken ; here is another photo of the 2 ANNA decapod camelbacks together. They are seen here in Allentown yard passing each other.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - May 09 2013 : 8:44:41 PM
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Gorgeous, Frank. 
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - May 10 2013 : 5:21:32 PM
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Thank you Nelson. It is my boys work. luv him a lot. Well I'll be off to Allentown PA tomorrow for the Merchant Square Malls train show. Lots of HO there.
pop
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on May 10 2013 9:43:09 PM
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Posted - May 10 2013 : 10:15:42 PM
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Good hunting in Allentown, Frank...
Mike
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Posted - May 11 2013 : 2:13:24 PM
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| what can i say frank,but brilliant work ken
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Posted - January 27 2014 : 07:29:08 AM
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* Well here is the Lehigh Valley N1 class Mikado camelback. The LV is the only RR company to run this type.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - January 27 2014 : 07:37:42 AM
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* Here is a new photo for the Lehigh Valley pacific camelback. Built by Baldwin and assigned to the Black Diamond.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 30 2014 06:53:44 AM
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Posted - January 27 2014 : 07:41:30 AM
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* Here are the latest camelbacks I have . The two CNJ I class I4 and I5 2-8-0 camelbacks.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - January 27 2014 : 09:22:21 AM
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| frank,sure are sweet looking locos ken
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Posted - January 28 2014 : 7:04:59 PM
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are those Magic Mate couplers? Hooks to both knuckle and horn-hook (X2F) .
John
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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Posted - January 30 2014 : 2:05:50 PM
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quote:are those Magic Mate couplers? Hooks to both knuckle and horn-hook (X2F) .
John
Originally posted by zebrails - January 28 2014 : 7:04:59 PM
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Yes they are. They work very well with either X2F or knuckle type couplers.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - January 30 2014 : 3:13:52 PM
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Great looking locomotives Frank!!
Sean
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