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New_York_Central
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 Posted - November 21 2009 :  6:37:03 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add New_York_Central to Buddylist
This original post of the topic will be undergoing constant revision
Last Revision Dec 05, 2009 9:32PM

This is where I would like to gain as much knowledge from all of you regarding the Metal Sharks produced under the Tyco name. Of course it will be necessary to start with the Mantua Metal sharks being it's nothing but a rebranding of that product. I will at least get this started.

Last weekend I happened to come across my UP Shark and decided to find out as much information as I could about that particular piece. In doing so I found myself getting into something much deeper. Hence, this thread has happened.

For that particular piece I've come to my own conclusion that it was available for a very short time. It only appears in the 1958 catalog. Until 1958 it seems there weren't any real roadnames available, only the TYCO name or no name at all. Along with the PRR, the UP is listed as an invidually sold piece, as seen below.



Also, Tyco had put together another marketing scheme called "Select-a-Set". Instead of buying any of the pre-packaged sets they had available or buying all the individual pieces you would need to build a complete train, Select-a-Set became another option. For a pre-determined price you were able to pick the engine and cars of your choosing. This option was also featured in the 1958 catalog.



Below are pictures of the sharks featured in Tyco's catalogs dated 1953 - 1960 along with their live counterparts. The shark does not make an appearance in 1959, but Tyco's debut of the F9 does. It is not until the mid 70's that the shark resurfaces in Tyco Catalogs, this time in it's plastic form.

Here's a few things I noticed along the way about the catalog pictures.
  • From 1953 to 1957 only the Tyco roadname or "no roadname" was cataloged.
  • 1953 - 1956 Sharks had open pilots with Mantua Loop and Hook Couplers for operations.
  • 1957 and 1958 sharks featured fully closed front pilots.
  • 1953-1955 Sharks found that horns weren't necessary. Horns were in place from 1956 onward


And here is some reality.
  • 1953-1955 Sharks had open pilots with Talgo Loop n Hook couplers
  • 1953-1955 Sharks did not have horns.
  • 1953-55 headlight opening is closed
  • 1956-1960 Sharks have closed pilots, no front couplers, open headlights and horns


Here's a pictorial history of the sharks. We'll go through the years with the catalog pictures along with the pictures of Tyco reality.



1953 Catalog Illustration (Plain and Simple Ugly)

What was really released, looks like the 1955 Catalog Picture (Provided by LoopnHook)



1954 Catalog Picture (Zebra Nose with TYCO roadname in stripe)



1955 Catalog Picture (Zebra Nose with TYCO roadname below stripe)

Example I have my hands on has gold paint between the Zebra stripes.



1956 Catalog Picture (Penant Nose with TYCO roadname)



1957 Catalog Picture (Penant Nose without roadname)



1958 Union Pacific Catalog Picture
Listed availability of #215A PRR and #215B UP

1958 UP Shark


No appearance or mention of the Shark in 1959



1960 Catalog Picture Pensylvania


Corrections and much more info appreciated. I would say in a few months we will have enough here to put together a nice history. Thanks.
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Mike
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 Posted - November 21 2009 :  9:35:18 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Mike to Buddylist
Great work NYC...

Mike
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GoingInCirclez
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 Posted - November 22 2009 :  6:14:39 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add GoingInCirclez to Buddylist
Nice write-up. I've been considering something similar on this same topic, but didn't have enough materials yet. Good start!

I will caution though that the catalog drawings/photos can sometimes be misleading. For instance, the "pennant" sharks shown, are not exactly what was offered. The metal shark underwent numerous revisions and by the time the pennant scheme was offered, they were using the gimbal mount with an obvious cutout low on the frame. But this is not pictured. Also by this time the rear steps had been filled.

Other changes included adding more weight, cutting the ventilation slots in the roof, and adding an operating headlight. Not all of this was done at the same time. I have a pile of metal shark shells and each was a little different...

The timeline isn't clear since they were all stripped. But I have a rough idea.

As for other paint schemes: the Baldwin Demo was in blue and green. There was also an uncataloged black-and-orange example, similar in appearance to the blue drawing from 1953. I'm sure there were a handful of others.

The 1959 catalog shows a Pennsy version in accurate paint, not the gray/yellow. One of these was sold on ebay last week.
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romcat
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 Posted - November 22 2009 :  6:25:50 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add romcat to Buddylist
Which begs the question which version of the A/B set are you sending me???

-Gareth
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GoingInCirclez
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Yours is the earlier, pre-gimbal design with open steps. But I think the B-unit is a heavyweight.
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romcat
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ah the subtelties; and by "heavyweight" you mean? After all they are metal cast units right?

By the way I did send you the right CP box car right? I know that PH structure isn't perfect but I hope it will meet your needs?

-Gareth
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Tony Cook
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 Posted - November 23 2009 :  8:16:24 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Tony Cook to Buddylist
The metal Shark is present in the 1960 TYCO catalog... (Added)



That's the last annual catalog appearance, until the plastic Shark arrives in the mid-'70s...


Tony Cook
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New_York_Central
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 Posted - November 23 2009 :  8:47:50 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add New_York_Central to Buddylist
Thanks guys! I'll update the original post with all the information then add a tagline to your replies when that info has been added. Yes, I definately understand the catalogs are notorious for misleading information but I thought it would be a good base to begin with. Disproving the catalogs is also a bit of fun.
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LoopnHook
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These are my thoughts on this subject. As GIC points out, some form of illustration is needed. So, here's some images and a timeline... with some of my comments.

1953 - The Tyco Shark Diesel A unit was introduced. The trucks were pedestal mounted from a plate screwed to the underside of the roof. Only the rear truck was powered. The nose is open allowing a talgo style mounting of a loop n hook coupler. There are no horns.
Comment - It is thought that the body shell was cast rather light. There is an A unit example that is considerable lighter when compared with later production shells. This example has been stripped of its original livery. The 1953 brochure shows a blue paint job that I would hope is some misguided commercial artists concept.

1954 - A powered B unit joined the A. Both shells were cast with additional weight in the rear above the power truck. The A unit livery had three blue stripes on the nose reminiscent of Baldwin's demo model plus a single stripe with TYCO down the side. Motor, running gear and couplers remained the same as 1953.
Comment - I received the unit shown here Christmas 1954. It still runs, but three sons have left their marks of use upon it. Im using it for illustration because of this documentation.







1955 - The only change in the Shark lineup was the addition of a non-powered B unit.
Comment - Page 5 of the 1955 Tyco catalog shows an A unit coupled to a three car streamline passenger train. The car letter boards have Tyco Streamliner in silver letters on a blue background matching the locomotive. The page copy states "As modern as the Santa Fe Chief". The 1955 Mantua Kit Catalog, page 5 offers some insights into what could be done to improve Shark performance. Front truck power kits, for both the A and B units are offered.





1956 - Big changes this year! Both A and B units of the diecast shark were revised to accept gimbaled mount power trucks. These units had notches on each side above the rear power truck to accept a clip on type of power truck mount. The front truck was semi pedestal mounted to the new cab floor, which also held the working headlight. The nose was closed, no front coupler, and they had horns, the same as used later on the plastic sharks. The most noticeable change was the two slots in the roof above the power truck. Should tell you something about heat buildup and the elimination of same. The livery was changed to silver with red pendent and yellow stripes and Tyco on the side. A matching non-powered B unit was also offered. All equipment was now equipped with NMRA couplers mounted talgo style.
Comment - Livery of the streamline passenger cars was changed. Tyco Streamliner is in red plus a broad band of red was applied to the skirts of each car. The catalog reference to the Santa Fe remains. The unit shown here is a 1957 model professionally weathered by my 3 sons and is presented for illustration purposes only.









1957 - The Shark offerings for 1957 remained the same as 1956 except for the removal of the Tyco name from the loco sides.
Comment - The streamline passenger cars are lettered for a real railroad, the Santa Fe, which is probably why the Tyco name was removed from the locomotives.

1958 - The brochure for 1958 finally lists road names for the shark A units. 215-A is a passable Pennsylvania unit and 215- B is a laughable Union Pacific. There are no B units listed.
Comment - Passenger cars were lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad.

1959 - No diecast sharks were offered this year. The plastic F units and plastic passenger cars are introduced.

1960 - The last listing for a diecast shark comes in 1960 when a lone 215A in Pennsylvania livery is listed.

And so it goes...

Loopy

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Edited by - LoopnHook on November 24 2009 6:15:34 PM
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New_York_Central
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 Posted - November 24 2009 :  6:12:35 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add New_York_Central to Buddylist
Thanks Loopy, I'll get that added in but my brain is fried for the rest of this evening.
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - November 24 2009 :  7:02:31 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
Does anyone have any input on how those old power trucks (MU-1?) performed with the larger magnet, pole pieces, and molded brush assembly? Was the armature bigger than the MU-2s we're used to?
The Tyco Depot
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LIGuy45
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I belonged to a club where a number of those metal sharks were owned by different people. They ran well but rather fast and didn't pull well because a lot of the motor's pulling power was lost in pulling the casting. Most guys I knew repowered them with Hobbytown of Boston Drives.

I recall that one club member has a Mantua powered shark that he teamed up with five Mantua metal passenger cars. The train looked nice but the engine had a hard time pulling the five cars around. In defense of the Mantua engine, the passenger cars really didn't roll all that well.

Once Model Power brought out their sharks, the Mantua metal engines became dust collectors.
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GoingInCirclez
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Yeah, these metal sharks are frustrating, as they define the idiom "can barely get out of their own way". Even after an extensive teardown and cleaning of all motor components, the performance is not spectacular. But these early motors have a neat whine that resonates well inside that chunk of metal, and are fun to listen to.

Poor running is not even due to current age either. Loopy sent me an example that came with a to/from communication record, of the original purchaser's dealings with the Mantua Service department. Apparently he was less than thrilled with its performance (or lack thereof). Mantua's response, to paraphrase, was "They all do that, so tough noogies; we'll sell you a second motor for additional $".


But if you're willing to invest the time to completely overhaul and clean the motor, you can get a decent performer. I have a consist of 5 of the classic Aluminum Tyco Streamliners, and my rebuilt metal shark does a decent job hauling it. Takes a lot of juice though. But it looks and sounds cool.


Edited by - GoingInCirclez on November 28 2009 2:39:58 PM
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microbusss
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 Posted - November 28 2009 :  3:20:29 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
neato Think I'd like a BN Shark Oh well I'll look for Sharks at the Train Show on Feb 20th in Denver
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Ray Marinaccio
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 Posted - November 28 2009 :  3:23:03 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Ray Marinaccio to Buddylist
quote:
Does anyone have any input on how those old power trucks (MU-1?) performed with the larger magnet, pole pieces, and molded brush assembly? Was the armature bigger than the MU-2s we're used to?

Originally posted by NickelPlate759-November 24 2009: 7:02:31 PM

I have a few of the MU-1 power trucks that I used to repower an AHM trolley and an AHM center cab switcher.
What I like about them are the finer toothed gears which give them a different gear ratio.
I didn't measure the diameter of the armature but they look to be the same diameter as the MU-2 armatures.
The magnets on mine seamed weak compared to the MU-2 magnets but that could be just the ones I have.



Ray
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - November 29 2009 :  1:09:08 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
Nice retrofit, Ray. Unfortunately, it's true that a larger magnet doesn't necessarily mean it's stronger, since old alnico magnets were notoriously weak, but I'm sure replacing the original magnet with a stack of neodymiums will have a metal Shark pulling the walls down. I just put two stacks of small rectangular neos in an old PM-1 motor, and the power and low speed stability is remarkable.

Yesterday I purchased a 2nd run 1960's Athearn Pacific that didn't look like it had been run much, if ever. It does run, but the motor (which has a big alnico magnet as well) is very weak. Looks like I'm going to be scouting around for suitable replacements.

The Tyco Depot
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romcat
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Hey NP:

can you fire me some pics of the Neo mag installation in your Shark. or just post them here?

Thanks,
-Gareth

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NickelPlate759
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I don't own one, Gareth. I put the new magnets in a Big Six 0-6-0 motor (I steal them off of my Sonicare toothbrush heads when they wear out, lol). I also used some disk magnets to bring the motor in an American Flyer Hudson back tio life. I don't have any photos right now, but here's a link to a tutorial by Darth Santa Fe on the Model Railroader forum who does the same thing.

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/120264/1383917.aspx#1383917

The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on November 30 2009 01:44:11 AM
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New_York_Central
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 Posted - December 06 2009 :  3:54:22 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add New_York_Central to Buddylist
quote:
This original post of the topic will be undergoing constant revision
Last Revision Dec 05, 2009 9:32PM

This is where I would like to gain as much knowledge from all of you regarding the Metal Sharks produced under the Tyco name. Of course it will be necessary to start with the Mantua Metal sharks being it's nothing but a rebranding of that product. I will at least get this started.

Last weekend I happened to come across my UP Shark and decided to find out as much information as I could about that particular piece. In doing so I found myself getting into something much deeper. Hence, this thread has happened.

For that particular piece I've come to my own conclusion that it was available for a very short time. It only appears in the 1958 catalog. Until 1958 it seems there weren't any real roadnames available, only the TYCO name or no name at all. Along with the PRR, the UP is listed as an invidually sold piece, as seen below.

/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1958UPShark.jpg
/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1958UPSharkPrice.jpg

Also, Tyco had put together another marketing scheme called "Select-a-Set". Instead of buying any of the pre-packaged sets they had available or buying all the individual pieces you would need to build a complete train, Select-a-Set became another option. For a pre-determined price you were able to pick the engine and cars of your choosing. This option was also featured in the 1958 catalog.

/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1958TycoSelect-a-Set.jpg


Below are pictures of the sharks featured in Tyco's catalogs dated 1953 - 1960 along with their live counterparts. The shark does not make an appearance in 1959, but Tyco's debut of the F9 does. It is not until the mid 70's that the shark resurfaces in Tyco Catalogs, this time in it's plastic form.

Here's a few things I noticed along the way about the catalog pictures.
  • From 1953 to 1957 only the Tyco roadname or "no roadname" was cataloged.
  • 1953 - 1956 Sharks had open pilots with Mantua Loop and Hook Couplers for operations.
  • 1957 and 1958 sharks featured fully closed front pilots.
  • 1953-1955 Sharks found that horns weren't necessary. Horns were in place from 1956 onward


And here is some reality.
  • 1953-1955 Sharks had open pilots with Talgo Loop n Hook couplers
  • 1953-1955 Sharks did not have horns.
  • 1953-55 headlight opening is closed
  • 1956-1960 Sharks have closed pilots, no front couplers, open headlights and horns


Here's a pictorial history of the sharks. We'll go through the years with the catalog pictures along with the pictures of Tyco reality.


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1953TycoShark.jpg
1953 Catalog Illustration (Plain and Simple Ugly)
/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/Tyco-T215_early_nose.jpg
What was really released, looks like the 1955 Catalog Picture (Provided by LoopnHook)


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1954TycoShark.jpg
1954 Catalog Picture (Zebra Nose with TYCO roadname in stripe)


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1955TycoShark.jpg
1955 Catalog Picture (Zebra Nose with TYCO roadname below stripe)

Example I have my hands on has gold paint between the Zebra stripes.


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1956TycoShark.jpg
1956 Catalog Picture (Penant Nose with TYCO roadname)


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1957TycoShark.jpg
1957 Catalog Picture (Penant Nose without roadname)


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1958UPShark.jpg
1958 Union Pacific Catalog Picture
Listed availability of #215A PRR and #215B UP
/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/MantuaUPShark.jpg
1958 UP Shark


No appearance or mention of the Shark in 1959


/tyco/forum/uploaded/New_York_Central/1960PRRShark.jpg
1960 Catalog Picture Pensylvania


Corrections and much more info appreciated. I would say in a few months we will have enough here to put together a nice history. Thanks.

Originally posted by New_York_Central-November 21 2009: 6:37:03 PM

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ABE
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 Posted - December 17 2009 :  11:08:18 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ABE to Buddylist
Todd,
Here are some pictures of a few Tyco/Mantua Metal Sharknose diesels, the blue & white one is copied exactly including paint from the orginal engine that was in the Mantua Plants front cabinet of many one of a kind Tyco Items including some of the old prototypes, this engine is the engine that Mantua used to run in early factory layouts during Christmas time at various large stores & events to advertise there model trains & was also used for the engine showen on lids of the kit boxes for the Sharknose engine & various other early kit boxes, the orange & blue sharknose was also in cabinet untiol the plant was sold & a employee some how goyt nearly all items in cabinet, this is a hand painted engine & is actualy brand new, I also have anothe Sharknose engine from cabinet that is a black & gray paint scheme similar to the orange & brown paint scheme on another metal sharknose that was sold in sets but uncataloged for dome reason, I have one engine & saw a few others, I also have some sets showen including the PRR Sharknose engine along with a matching B-unit which I am sure is a custom paint but matches perfectly, I do custom paint but did not do this , the Texas Special is my custom paint work,................... hope you can use these in your metal sharknose page, Abe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abe Schwartz

Abe Schwartz
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kovacste000
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Awesome work here, New_York_Central.Could anyone make something like this for the Mantua Pacifics? I'm trying to date my diecast one that I got at a train show a while back.
-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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kovacste000
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I have one of these things, myself and it was custom painted sometime before I got it. On the bottom of the shell, you can still see parts of the original paint which was the Pennsylvania variation. It ran horribly at first but after some cleaning and lube, she runs okay, I guess. I'll try to post her in action at some point.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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thebigcon4800
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This is a necro, i know, but the UP scheme is kinda a dead ringer for the LIRR World's Fair Diesel scheme
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AMC_Gremlin_GT
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One reason they run so crappy is that the only contact between the track and motor is those little metal axle points going into the metal sideframes. I ended up putting some soft copper mesh inside the housing to rub on the steel axle, which gives far greater surface area of metal contact. My metal Shark ran so much better, and smoother, after this addition. It was jerky and slow with the axle points bouncing around barely making contact. It's still slow, but the smoothness is far better. ;) Will NEVER beat a Hustler in a race, but it do run good!

Jerry


" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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microbusss
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the UP F7s are a GIMMIES! hehe
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Darth Santa Fe
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I have the original 1953 version. I modified it with PSC nickel wheels, 8-wheel electrical pickup, neodymium magnet, Kadee #58 couplers cut and drilled to fit the original mounts, and more weight in the back. I also gave it a nice paint job in PRR with gold striping. It looks great and runs great!


Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!

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RP model railroads
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DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - August 21 2017 :  6:56:07 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
quote:
I have the original 1953 version. I modified it with PSC nickel wheels, 8-wheel electrical pickup, neodymium magnet, Kadee #58 couplers cut and drilled to fit the original mounts, and more weight in the back. I also gave it a nice paint job in PRR with gold striping. It looks great and runs great!



Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - August 21 2017 :  01:14:51 AM



Wow! Amazing job, and a very realistic Pennsy Shark indeed!!

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Mike
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Picked up this metal A and B at a flea market a few years ago...

Mike
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microbusss
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close up of the side please
Can't read the name
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Chops124
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Remarkable, another piece of Tyco history I was completely unaware of.
I'd recently repainted a Tyco Shark in BNSF, not realizing that there was
an extant version. Will probably have to go back and re-do the decals
to match what was shown on that 1960 catalogue.
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bitlerisvj
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Hi,
I have 3 A units and 1 B Unit and definitely want to put new wheels and neodymium magnets in mine. Can you tell us which PSC wheels you used and which magnets you used. Looking at the K&J site they have N42 and N52 magnets for the 1/2" cubes. Which ones did you use. I really want to put DCC Decoders in mine to set up an A-B-A lash up.
Thanks and regards, Vic B.

quote:
I have the original 1953 version. I modified it with PSC nickel wheels, 8-wheel electrical pickup, neodymium magnet, Kadee #58 couplers cut and drilled to fit the original mounts, and more weight in the back. I also gave it a nice paint job in PRR with gold striping. It looks great and runs great!



Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - August 21 2017 :  01:14:51 AM


Vic Bitleris
Edited by - bitlerisvj on August 29 2017 10:06:16 PM
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - September 28 2017 :  7:39:39 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Figured I would post this here to gain assistance, and in case it can help someone in the future.

Today, I just received a Tyco Mantua metal Shark dated back to the early 1950's, never assembled and basically mint-in-box, including the original instructions, guarantee paper, and spare parts list. I followed the directions and assembled the Shark just like I was supposed to.

However, upon testing it, the motor did not move. After lubing the gears, axle, and motor bearings, still no movement. Tried to manually spin the motor by gently plugging-at it with a screwdriver, no go. Lastly, I messed with the magnet and finally got the motor to hesitantly move a couple times. After multiple trials of a slight movement-nothing, all of a sudden the motor truck became hot and made a barely-audible noise that indicated that the motor wanted to move, but it couldn't (like it was jammed.) Although the truck got hot, there was no movement or smoke/smell. Every trial thereaft resulted in a lack of movement - not even a peep - from the motor. Yet, the motor is not burned out.

Can anyone give me some how-to tips for fixing this Shark. I feel it is so close to operating, yet so far.

Any help would be appreciated. :)






"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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DanMacK
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Possibly try and see if the motor will run without the wheels installed (if you can) then it could be an issue with the mesh on the gears and worm.
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offtrackthoroughbred
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You can take the bottom brass plate off and remove the axles. What happens if you directly power the motor brush springs? There are several electrical connections that may have faulty connectivity: the rivet holding the power wire to the motor; the brush spring to brush; oil/dirt on brushes; rivets connecting the other brush to chassis. A volt meter can help find bad connections.

If you decide to disassemble, please note parts #6944 (retainer) which (2) hold the motor bearings in place; easily lost. Upon re-assembly note these bearings have a "notch" that fit into the frame; as you re-seat them, gently spin them with modest pressure until you feel them seat into the frame.
Good luck!
OTTB

http://www.hoseeker.org/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg


p.s.
Being a computer dinosaur, I don't keep up with changing rules like photobuckt.com blocking direct links or http://www.hoseeker.org/ also blocking image links.

Anyway, hoseeker Mantua image of the MU (motor unit) can be viewed from http://www.hoseeker.org/; click Literature button on left; then find and click Mantua button; then drop-down-list Mantua Instructions / Part Numbrs and select Diesel; then drop-down-list Diesel Diagrams / Part Numbers; and select 215 Shark Diesel 1953 2


Edited by - offtrackthoroughbred on October 01 2017 6:33:59 PM
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microbusss
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no pic
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toptrain
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Shark sale info from 1954,
frank

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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - October 01 2017 :  9:48:18 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Thank you everyone for your help! I'm going to continue to investigate the electrical connectivity issues with my metal Sharknose, and also test out other magnets in order to improve operation. I'll be sure to report my findings.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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bitlerisvj
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 Posted - October 03 2017 :  2:09:08 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add bitlerisvj to Buddylist
I purchased a B Unit that wouldn't move, but was able to get it running like new with a bit of work. It took a while for the oil to seep into the bronze bushings, but eventually ran as smooth as silk.
I don't think you have an electrical problem. I believe the motor is getting hot because it can't move. Definitely turn power off if it gets hot. You should be able to turn the armature over by hand with very little resistance. I suspect the bearings in the motor shaft ends are kind of frozen up. A bit of LaBelle 107 oil should help a lot. The wheelset bearings and gears may need lubricant also. Before you do too much, take the bottom plate off and remove the wheel/gear sets. Just remember the insulating orientation to reassemble without getting shorts.
Here is kinda how the motor will look once out and the bottom plate removed.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10299
Here is a Youtube of how you can safely tear it down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGfIyZ_OrNk
The above video is not a shark, but I think you get the idea. Most sharks came with screws and not rivets, so probably you wont need to drill out rivets.
These motors are practically indestructible, so be careful about letting them get too hot.
Regards, Vic B.

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Darth Santa Fe
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 Posted - October 06 2017 :  11:20:04 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Darth Santa Fe to Buddylist
quote:
Hi,
I have 3 A units and 1 B Unit and definitely want to put new wheels and neodymium magnets in mine. Can you tell us which PSC wheels you used and which magnets you used. Looking at the K&J site they have N42 and N52 magnets for the 1/2" cubes. Which ones did you use. I really want to put DCC Decoders in mine to set up an A-B-A lash up.
Thanks and regards, Vic B.


I don't remember the parts numbers, but I believe they were 40" wheels with 3/32" axles and flush ends, and then I pressed 1/8" brass tubing onto each one. The magnet is an N42, and I actually had to put a heavy spring between the motor and steel frame because the magnet wanted to attach to the steel plate and lift the truck!

Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!

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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - October 10 2017 :  11:25:44 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Just an update on my metal Shark restoration:

First of all, I want to thank you all for your help and advice! I had the chance to look at the Shark with my Dad tonight and determined that one of the springs was a bit "sprung" in that it wasn't holding the brush close enough to the commutator. After tightening the spring, contact was made and the motor ran extremely well in both directions! Then, I re-assembled it to the metal strip frame and benchtested it using the wire hook-up on the rear of the front truck, and the right spring-brush (to similate how the power would enter the Shark on the tracks,) and it worked once more! But, upon placing it on the track, there was no contact made to the motor, so I'll have to investigate into the wheel pick-up, as that is the most probable cause why electricity from the tracks is not being received by the motor.

More on that to come!

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - April 02 2018 :  8:57:59 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist


I am pleased to announce that my unpainted Tyco/Mantua RF-16A "Sharknose" is now fully functional!!! A big thank you to my Dad for deciphering connection-issues with the brushes, which caused the motor to finally spin within the truck on its own, then powering the entire frame (an impossibility before.)

A series of 4-5 small modern circle-magnets replaced the vintage "block magnet", which thus strengthened the motor, while traction tires were added to both drive wheels.

While it does run slow, it is running nonetheless (smoking off lubrication oil at the same time ) I do plan to post a video of it in action on the LTT, later this week or weekend, so please stay tuned.

IT WORKS!!!! YES! *Shark Master Riots*

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - April 03 2018 :  7:21:30 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
VIDEO OF MY UNPAINTED early 1950's TYCO/MANTUA METAL SHARKNOSE IN ACTION! = https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zTZ9csTFUB1iJyHY8cs-dHnqdMDmHnW/view?usp=sharing
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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Chops124
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 Posted - April 04 2018 :  2:21:35 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
Fine looking piece, Shark Master. Do you plan to paint it
or leave it vintage? Love those hoop and hook couplers,
those things pretty reliable.

I am certain you have thought of this, but if you were
to just push that test track a little over to Ephrates Valley...
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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - April 04 2018 :  3:48:11 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Thanks Chops! I've contemplated painting it, however, I believe I will leave it unpainted so as to preserve the vintage-ness. (new word) Actually, that's why I'm looking for a vintage Tyco metal Sharknose shell with a design, so I can simply swap shells and keep the unpainted one as a collectible, until I find another powered Mantua chassis.

LOL, you really want me to expand the Ephrata Valley Railroad, don't you? I have thought about that, but nah...

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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 Posted - April 05 2018 :  07:47:26 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
I really like this thread on Mantua/Tyco sharks. Their RF16A's and B's have never looked better.
frank

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oldtimer52
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 Posted - April 07 2018 :  09:48:26 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add oldtimer52 to Buddylist
Ok all, here is the info that I found concerning the Baldwin Sharknosed locos.

This is from the Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, May 1972 issue.

There were 2 articles in the magazine, but I was only able to get 1 of them down to fit here in the
forum. The one I was not able to fit down is an article by Louis A. Marre, All About Sharks on
page 34. (Note: If anyone would like to read it, I have it in PDF format. Just shoot me your
email address and I'll send you a copy).

The roster I was able to get down to fit, and was compiled by Louis A. Marre with assistance from
"Extra 2200 South", a Locomotive Newspaper of the times. Here goes:

The Demonstrators:


PRR Passenger locomotives:


PRR DR4-4-1500:


B&O:


NYC:


Monongahela:

Here is a link to this railroad: https://www.american-rails.com/monongahela-railway.html

This last graphic is a drawing of the Shark showing the additions to the production model.


As you can see, none of the model companies actually made models of the production Sharks,
only the demonstrators.. I hope that this article helps someone with the history of the real-life
sharks. Made me take notice of the companies and their use of "artistic license".

Edited by - oldtimer52 on April 07 2018 10:00:55 AM
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Chops124
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 Posted - April 08 2018 :  12:53:41 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
Most interesting roster, thank you for posting. I was not
aware of the Monongahela, at all.

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DaCheez
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quote:
VIDEO OF MY UNPAINTED early 1950's TYCO/MANTUA METAL SHARKNOSE IN ACTION! = https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zTZ9csTFUB1iJyHY8cs-dHnqdMDmHnW/view?usp=sharing

Originally posted by RP model railroads - April 03 2018 :  7:21:30 PM



Hey RP, thanks for the video! I've never seen an original Shark in person and was unaware how smooth the motor appears to run. I may have to find one now. As far as painting it goes, the nice thing about diecast engines is they're usually super easy to strip paint from. I tossed some diecast Varney and Lindsay shells in to an acetone bath a while back and most of them came out looking like new. I can understand wanting to leave it original however. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do!
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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - April 09 2018 :  5:07:40 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
quote:
quote:
VIDEO OF MY UNPAINTED early 1950's TYCO/MANTUA METAL SHARKNOSE IN ACTION! = https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zTZ9csTFUB1iJyHY8cs-dHnqdMDmHnW/view?usp=sharing

Originally posted by RP model railroads - April 03 2018 :  7:21:30 PM



Hey RP, thanks for the video! I've never seen an original Shark in person and was unaware how smooth the motor appears to run. I may have to find one now. As far as painting it goes, the nice thing about diecast engines is they're usually super easy to strip paint from. I tossed some diecast Varney and Lindsay shells in to an acetone bath a while back and most of them came out looking like new. I can understand wanting to leave it original however. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do!
Originally posted by DaCheez - April 09 2018 :  08:51:25 AM




Thanks!! Yes, the metal Mantua/Tyco Shark does run smooth....smoothly slow! However, the slower speed is more prototypical so....and besides, I'm just grateful that such a model train nearly 64 years old even operates. In regards to painting the shell, I think I will keep the present shell in its unpainted vintage condition, however, I would eventually like to swap shells for one that has one of the original designs on it...

*Shark Master Out-*


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Alco Fan
Big Boy


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I have an original orange and black version of the diecast RF 16. I have been told from a reliable source that version is one of the first RTR diecast Sharks. It has the open front coupler pocket and loop and hook couplers.
Based on the information above it was produced around '53-'55. The top looks black but also looks brown in some settings.



I’ve had this probably 10 years. According to the info above they only made the die cast Shark with front open coupler pockets between ‘ 53-‘55. That says it all!

Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on June 04 2018 8:21:04 PM
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Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - June 03 2018 :  11:01:53 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
First of all, nice find! I actually saw one of these on Ebay recently, and figured it was a really good custom-job.....now I know that it's indeed authentic. Here's another one exactly like yours....except it is in a little worse shape: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Mantua-Tyco-1950s-Sharknose-Engine/223001457369?hash=item33ebec32d9:g:ipgAAOSwKwpbEcHE


I have no information on this specific metal Shark, but am just as curious as you to find the answer.

*Shark Master Dreams of this Shark*

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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