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 Posted - September 19 2011 : 09:28:04 AM
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Well, Sunday night, I took apart my Mantua Shifter loco ( I posted it in LOTW Sept 17th ), and finally got the armature to move after cleaning the brush and contact pads up some. STill, the engine didn't move fast, or far. So, I had the bright idea    of using some super-magnets I had bought to see if the motor would speed up any with a stronger field. I wonder which way they should go on the motor? Well, long story short, I de-magnetized the metal chunk in the motor.  . Then the wires started smoking a bit from too much amperage when I tried to run it. Ok, NOW what do I do? Well, I DO have these super magnets....
Cut to Monday morning at work - I brought the motor to work and cut the rivet out. Pulled out the HO scale boat anchor, and put 4 of the 6 super molybdenum watch-battery sized mags into the back space where the semi-perm was before. Had to find a flat washer to take up the rest of the gap between plates. Ok, here goes - hooked it up to a 12v power supply. Voila! No smoke, and BOY does that motor turn some RPM's now!  I'd been wanting to try this on a MU-2 first, but this 1952 Mantua Shifter gets the honors of being the first super-mag motored engine in my fleet.  . I think I'll like this, I will have to visit the hardware store where I got these and buy some more sets ( about $5.xx for a pack of 6, iirc ). The low speed rpms are good, too, before with the old magnet, it would take off suddenly, this motor now seems to have more low-end rpms, rather than a gap from 0 to mid-range. Once I get it back into the steam body, I'll see how it operates on the track. This COULD be the start of a fantastic repowering scheme for these older motors. Wonder how fast a Mantua 4301 MU-2 will fly, just got that Penn Central one, although it is running fine at the moment.....
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 09:29:52 AM
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I gots plenty of motor to try this with!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 1:26:59 PM
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sounds intersting plase keep us updated
-Ray
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 3:09:14 PM
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Jerry,
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7997
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10189
Posted - August 03 2011 : 4:25:20 PM
quote:
Nelson...what is your source for those magnets ---and---can the result be the same or near the same if you simply stack them to the outside of the existing one? Thanks ahead of time...
Originally posted by shaygetz - August 03 2011 : 12:39:53 PM
Hi Shayman,
Don't test a good motor by sticking neodymiums to it, unless you're sure you're going to replace the original magnet. I've learned the hard way that it completely overwhelms the alnico magnet -- basically shorts it -- and leaves it with virtually no magnetism. I did this to a motor in an old Gilbert Hudson, and replacement was difficult because the magnet is a disc with the poles along the edges.
Neodymiums are so powerful that sticking them to the side of the the motor will make it run, but for optimum power you need the maximum amount of surface area in contact with the pole pieces, so they should be installed in place of the original magnet.
Try Emovendo: http://www.emovendo.net/
He has a huge selection, and he's the only dealer I found who had the disc magnets I needed. The magnets in the photo are actually from (believe it or not) the bottom of my old Sonicare toothbrush heads. I cut them off and soak them in lacquer thinner to remove their black coating. They're small enough that they can be stacked and put into just about any motor.
I think this has been posted before, but DarthSantaFe on the MR forum has a thread about it.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/120264.aspx?PageIndex=1
Nelson
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 Posted - September 19 2011 : 3:28:27 PM
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Jerry:
You should do a search on the forum for magnet threads in the past.
Nickleplate has been on that soapbox so long the birds are nesting in his pockets!
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 3:53:55 PM
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Ill Do That WIth A CD or Disc Drive motor and Turn My GP 20 Into The Worlds Fastest Tyco
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 3:56:04 PM
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quote:
Nickleplate has been on that soapbox so long the birds are nesting in his pockets!
-Gareth
Originally posted by romcat - September 19 2011 : 3:28:27 PM
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That's because the magnets are messing with their navigational perception.
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 6:27:35 PM
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quote:
NOW ya tell me! Well, I haven't always had the best of luck with searches on the Forum. Sometimes you just gotta larn on your own.
Now, as far as the disc magnets, Servi-star Hardware stores sell them, I got them locally, and found them at the HW store near my work today, too ( But they were 10.00 for 6 of the little ones, Servistar P/N 2102267 , original P/N 07046, called Super Magnets, in a blue and yellow blister pack about 4 x 3 inches , magnet dimensions .47 inch diameter, .11 inch thick. Other details - Master Magnetics, Inc. at WWW.magnetsource.com , Castlerock, CO , Made in CHina, yada, yada, yada.
So if you have a Servi-star hardware store near you, check them out. Now off to put this chassis back together, and see if the bugger runs like a scalded tea kettle.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 6:45:46 PM
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It should actually slow it down. I don't have any hardware stores around me that sell any that I know of, but it would be nice to find one so I could avoid s&h. They would work in most open frames. I'll have to check some True Value HW stores.
I needed diametric disk magnets for the Hudson motor, which means the N/S poles are along the edges, not the faces. They're very hard to find, in fact Emovendo was the only source that had them. I used 2 in the AF motor, and the rest are on my fridge, so if anybody needs some, just ask.
Here's a pic of a motor with an original magnet, and then the substitutes.
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 7:25:22 PM
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What Motors Turn The Fastest And are Flat, Like A Power Torque. I Might Put A Motor Where The Armature Was.
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 7:40:53 PM
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Here's my updated Mantua Shifter, Super-magged. Need to get the motor shimmed properly, a small piece of brass fell out, not sure where underneath the motor it was located, tried several different spots, but haven't found the "sweet" one yet. It runs forward great, but binds a bit on reverse. But low speed crawl is great, and it does move at a much higher speed that previously with the Alnico magnet. 
So,other than getting a long screw to replace the rivet holding the plates together, and some shim work, I think this old Mantua will be ready to rock soon. Definitely chugging along faster and more evenly than previously with the old magnet. So a silver lining in this particular cloud.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 7:45:32 PM
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That is a pretty elegant installation Bre'r AMC-Dude!
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 8:02:25 PM
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I think that brass is a piece of scrap metal. I've never found anything like that in a PM-1.
Nelson
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Posted - September 19 2011 : 8:09:13 PM
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quote:I think that brass is a piece of scrap metal. I've never found anything like that in a PM-1.
Nelson
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 19 2011Â :Â 8:02:25 PM
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Problem is, if I screw the motor down tight without it, the worm gear binds too hard with the axle gear. The motor won't even turn over, I have to loosen the screw. So maybe someone shimmed it to get some gear spacing. But it won't run without a shim right now.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 20 2011 : 1:28:05 PM
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That's weird. It sounds like the frame is warped, or someone modified something. The gear mesh shouldn't need adjustment.
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