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 Posted - April 25 2011 : 3:02:09 PM
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post 1
* Today I started on my Mantua Reading 4-4-2. Checking it out to see what I need to restore it to its 1920's operating condition, or better. It is one of 4 locomotives that was originally made as a 4-4-4, the C1a class. The 4 wheel trailing truck proved to be unstable. The 4 were rebuilt as 4-4-2 types of a new class the P7sa. These were the Reading's only 4, 4-4-2 types that were not of a camelback design. They also were kind of streamlined as almost all piping on the boiler was covered with metal sheeting. This gave a very smooth finished look. That is the way I want them to be.
* Now the only ugly area on the new P7sa class was on the engineers side. This is where the compressors were mounted to the boiler above the walk way. Also the sand pipe pased through here. In later years, Reading would move there Compressors on to the front pilot platform.
* My model as it is now.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on November 15 2012 9:51:30 PM
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Posted - April 25 2011 : 4:20:30 PM
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Go get er done Frank!
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
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Posted - April 25 2011 : 4:38:36 PM
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Being a BIG Reading fan, I'm looking forward to your finished product. Kool idea!
~ Dave
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - April 25 2011 : 5:19:23 PM
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quote:Being a BIG Reading fan, I'm looking forward to your finished product. Kool idea!
~ Dave
Originally posted by RDC1Â -Â April 25 2011Â :Â 4:38:36 PM
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Dave ; In my world the Reading is not a fallen flag. Though I choose to model transision era and a little latter with very little mass dieselation. Steam still exists. Here it is easy to see modernized steam locomotives. So I feel it is ok to make changes to locomotives that the railroads would have.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - April 25 2011 : 7:33:52 PM
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Frank, I can appreciate that because in my world, creativity and imagineering™ are king. I'm into fun modeling.
~ Dave
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - April 27 2011 : 4:45:51 PM
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This is the new front pilot. Nothing is written in stone here. I am now on a hold till next week after the New Hope PA train show. What ever I can get there will be purchased from Bowser next week.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on April 29 2011 11:42:01 AM
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Posted - April 29 2011 : 5:45:46 PM
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* The customized, Reading P7 ( 4-4-2) or now a possible C1 (4-4-4) is on hold to Monday,due to the train show. The loco will be a up streamlined version of either prototype. So what I make will never have existed except in my mind, and common sense tells me also in ideas of the CNJ, and Reading railroad locomotive design departments personal. You are not a real designer unless you study changes that can be made on you existing equipment to improve, or upgrade it. You must always be looking to upgrade what you have. Replacement costs can be much higher.
* I have checked what Bowser has and picked out a few items. Even though if I do a complete streamlining most will be wrong for the locomotive. What I would like to do is have the boiler walkways extend from the cab to smokebox front as all completely streamlined engines have. Also enclosing the pilot in a streamlined, rounded out cocoon. Monday I will play with this idea.
* Streamlining a Atlantic type is odd, but was done by other railroads. The Milwaukee Railroads first streamliner was a Atlantic. You know of the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha". They did a few of them. It lasted so well that as train weight went up, other classes of streamlined locomotives were made to pull this train. Pacific's then Hudson's were used. Milwaukee kept the streamlining the same on all three classes of locomotives. Compation with the airlines of their time, and the use of private autos, brought about this idea to streamline complete trains and upgrade rail service for passengers. It did work . The quality of the service and atmosphere provided has yet to be equaled by the airlines. Every time they make a airplane bigger they stuff in more seats. It just makes more people just as uncomfortable as with the smaller planes.
frank
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" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - July 28 2011 : 11:11:17 AM
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* Like with all thing, I do, I always change my mind. I will just work on the Reading Atlantic back date to a 4-4-4. Restoring with detail changes. Everything I do to this loco relies on what I can get, and what I can make for it. I hope to get it back to the original 4-4-4 as built. I did get a nice front pilot from Bowser. The Selley #466 is much closer to original. I have tried to strip paint from boiler and tender bodies. I'll have to get a soft brass drimel brush to remove the rest of the paint and also buff the metal surfaces. A break in the very hot weather has allowed me to work up in the attic. Here is a up dated photo.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 24 2011 09:58:29 AM
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Posted - August 14 2011 : 5:07:25 PM
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OK... Now I see it! I would like to follow this project..
Got lots of work ahead of you.. 
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 14 2011 : 7:41:20 PM
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Here is where I am today. I must be working in slow motion. Drive has been broken down cleaned, frame cleaned and repainted black. Rear truck changed to a 4 wheeler. All walkways have been removed and placed in a parts bag. will not be used on this engine. I really dont like the cab. the window is wrong and there should be 2, not 1 on each side. More paint to remove still. I dont like the tender either.
AHHH here is a photo.
Frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 14 2011 7:42:47 PM
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Posted - September 14 2011 : 8:06:05 PM
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Things I somehow need to change.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on January 31 2012 11:02:39 PM
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Posted - September 15 2011 : 1:07:55 PM
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I got my parts on order from bowser.
headlight, suport bracket, Damper, tender trucks, marker lights.
also some things for a PRR H8.
I may have to get some spoked wheel sets from North west short line if my Rivarossi wheels dont work.
I am just thinking out loud.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 16 2011 11:11:40 AM
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Posted - September 15 2011 : 1:22:46 PM
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Information links on the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, 4-4-4, class C1a of 1915.
* 1 - wikipedia cyclopedia online. Good as built photo of #110 in new condition, fireman's side. Also information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-4-4
* 2 - This class of locomotive was built for the Atlantic City Rail Road the ACRR.
This link will go to a information link on this railroad. Scanning through you will find a photo of #110, Engineers side. Also many more photos, map, information, and postcards of this railroad.
http://www.sjrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Atlantic_City_Railroad_
* 3 - ** Here is a excellent article I found searching "Google books". It is from a 1915 issue of the "Railway Age Gazette". There are actually two articles in the publication. The first on page 1184, "The Reading type locomotive" and the second on page 1193, Titled, " A Passenger Locomotive of Unusual Interest". The first is a few paragraphs of information. Reading this will give a good lead into the second. The second is a 5 page article. With Information, photos, list of specifications, and a excellent full page drawing with various views. Read them both!
frank
http://books.google.com/books?id=6G5CAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:Z-fDUhJx8rcC&hl=en&ei=_MaNTqPbGsXk0QH8trUy&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on February 01 2012 09:02:19 AM
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Posted - September 15 2011 : 9:44:12 PM
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9-16-2011
Well I have a photo today of my progress. No Laughting out loud unless you really have to. It is OK. Let it out or you will hurt yourself.
frank
The tender is from a CNJ 4-6-0 I kitbashed a few years ago. The 4 wheel spoked trucks are from Rivarossi Casey Jones.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on October 01 2011 8:48:28 PM
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Posted - September 18 2011 : 3:17:58 PM
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Neat Frank.
What do you use to strip the paint off the brass?
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 18 2011 : 3:50:01 PM
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quote:Neat Frank.
What do you use to strip the paint off the brass?
Originally posted by Alco Fan - September 18 2011 : 3:17:58 PM
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Pine-Sol was the striper. Still more to do.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 09:50:00 AM
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* I finally have the boiler cleaned. At this time awaiting delivery of detail parts from Bowser. Once I receive them another order will be sent.
* I am now trying the make brackets to hold up boiler side walkways. I realize that once installed they must be a part of the boiler. If not they will join the boiler to the frame. A problem I can't have. If I make it removable it won't be solid. They will be part of the boiler. Everything soldered together.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 24 2011 09:52:22 AM
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 10:08:46 AM
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looking like you are really getting stuck into this frank,its looking a lot better,ken
just a thought are these closer to what you need
Edited by - catfordken on September 24 2011 10:14:36 AM
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 10:33:01 AM
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Kenny ; They have the right lines on top, but to short. The Mantua is also to short. I may have to use 2 tender bodies to make 1. I am giong to make a cab. Maybe I also have to make a tender also. There was a company reciently that made die cast tenders. My son used one on his CNJ 4-8-0 camelback. Got to talk to him.
* frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 11:10:06 AM
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nice model frank,this is the brass version,prefer your boys ken
Edited by - catfordken on September 27 2011 09:19:22 AM
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 12:05:21 PM
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Kenny ; do you see how it is raised up underneath. The photo of the 4-4-4 shows that. I can do that to either the dia cast one, or maybe a Mantua one. As long as I can get the right look.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 12:09:39 PM
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quote:9-16-2011
Well I have a photo today of my progress. No Laughting out loud unless you really have to. It is OK. Let it out or you will hurt yourself.
frank
The tender is from a CNJ 4-6-0 I kitbashed a few years ago. The 4 wheel spoked trucks are from Rivarossi Casey Jones.
Originally posted by toptrain - September 15 2011 : 9:44:12 PM
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this one looks to low ken
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 12:13:08 PM
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Kenny ; You can see from your photo, a entire frame extending past the tender body on both ends. it is not as wide as the tender body. It should not be too hard to do.
Frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on September 24 2011 12:14:02 PM
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 12:41:29 PM
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| ok frank,was not questioning your skills,i know you are more than capable,trying to learn from the master ken
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 8:20:55 PM
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Hi Kenny ;
* Just got home and seen your post. All I was doing is talking out loud. Telling you all I was thinking. Sorry you felt that way. It was not intended. I am just stumbling thru life.
* Just opened my Bowser order. Out of 7 items 4 are wrong. didn't get the marker lights. Also sent wrong headlight. They sent me better stuff, but things I dont need. Monday I will get it straight. Need to order again anyway.
Frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 10:42:30 PM
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Frank,
I love that Camelback. Was that one of your projects?
I've had trouble with Bowser orders before, too. I was surprised, but it would make me think twice before ordering from them again. I'll probably just try to get it through my LHS rather than deal with them directly.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 10:52:04 PM
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quote:Frank,
I love that Camelback. Was that one of your projects?
I've had trouble with Bowser orders before, too. I was surprised, but it would make me think twice before ordering from them again. I'll probably just try to get it through my LHS rather than deal with them directly.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 24 2011Â :Â 10:42:30 PM
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Nelson : Once in 25 years aint bad. My son steve ( E-paw) built the camelback.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 26 2011 : 5:46:17 PM
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post 3
* Well what is done today. The three holes mantua made for the bell, generator, and bolier water supply piping have all been soldered over and sanded smooth. The boiler walkway supports, 2, are placed on the wooten firebox foward surfaces, and are soldered in place. A new hole is drilled for the bell in its proper location. The bell is mounted. On the smokebox front I have removed the headlight bracket and sanded it smooth. I mounted the new bracket, drilling 2 new holes. I dont have the correct headlight and placed the pyle light sent Mistakenly by Bowser, to check that the new brecket is ok. Rear 4 wheel trailing truck is drilled for a new mounting hole. It is put back in place. I still need to mount a centering spring for it. This is the lead truck from a Rivarossi casey jones. I cleaned up and replaced the one walkway on the firemans side firebox. it is the only one of the seven that is used on the 4-4-4. I took apart, removing the wheel sets from the second Casey jones lead truck. I need the matching spoked wheel sets for the 4-4-4 lead truck, which i have to make.
* And that was today so far.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on November 23 2011 10:37:44 AM
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Posted - September 26 2011 : 6:01:26 PM
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Amazing Camelback. Your project looks to take a lot of patience and skill.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 26 2011 : 6:10:46 PM
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post 4
* I've been thinking about this loco and realized. lots of people have the Atlantic in brass and cast that Mantua made. Checking my 1982 Brown book on Brass. No Reading 1915 class C1 4-4-4 was made up to then. Also only 1 Reading P5 4-4-2 was made. It is listed with only a catalog number ( ST-922 ), and no manufactures name. I wonder if that is the Mantua? I guess this was not considered a brass loco due to the lack of good detail and large amount a cast metal parts. Tho there are some pretty bad looking locos in the book. That book covered the golden age of brass when so many different prototypes were made. I wonder if one was ever made? I mean the C1 4-4-4. Does anybody know.
* I know the number and loco name to be applied to the 4-4-4 once done. There were only 4 in this class. #110 to #113. I will use #111, and call it ACE or ACES.
* This didn't work out, the ones keep falling apart. When I did #110, 2 ones were side by side on the decal sheet. They didn't break and stayed together. So the loco got the number 110.
* Also new to me, because all I ever did with this book was to look up engines I had and look at the pictures. Now I have become a reader of books and stumbled upon the criteaking of the locos in the refferance section under notes. This guy Brown and his helpers are real fuss pots, Nitpickers extrodair, and very well informed! Really most of the notes pertain to additional information on the locomotives.
* I have stumbled around enough. Time for my second cup of Coffee.
C U Later ! Frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on March 30 2012 07:53:01 AM
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Posted - September 27 2011 : 09:05:55 AM
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hi frank i have 2 p5`s listed in my database,one by cb and other by omi (overland) ken
p5 cb
p5 omi
p5 omi 2
Edited by - catfordken on September 27 2011 09:23:12 AM
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Posted - September 27 2011 : 10:44:42 AM
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Ken ; Do you know of any models of the Reading 1915 C1 4-4-4 ?
frank
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Posted - September 27 2011 : 10:50:18 AM
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| hi frank checked my database nothing shows there but i will keep looking ken
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Posted - September 29 2011 : 5:53:50 PM
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post 5
* Today was a big day for info on the Reading C1 4-4-4. I found in a "Railway Age Gazette", Volume 58, #1. It covers January to June 1915. A 5 page article titled." A Passenger locomotive of unusual Interest" Sub-title is " New Reading Engine of the 4-4-4 Type".
A full 4 page plus a paragraph on a fifth page. Photo of #110 engineers side. Boiler drawing. Full page drawing 5 sliced front to rear views, and drawing of Engineer side. All measurements in place. A photo and drawing of firebox with back frame exposed in photo. Another drawing of fire box supports, frame photo, and drawing, photo of frame looking toward rear. lots of data on the 4-4-4.
Frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 23 2011 10:39:28 AM
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Posted - September 29 2011 : 6:03:32 PM
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Help ! Does anyone have the program scale print working in there computer? I could e-mail you the drawing if you could convert it to HO scale.
frank
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Posted - September 29 2011 : 9:20:28 PM
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Congrats Frank on finding those photo's!
Always nice when those little nuggets turn up. Ken sent me a link to some stuff today that had a unique tender with a partial Cab. Might use that elsewhere.
Anyways Congrats again.
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
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Posted - September 30 2011 : 09:18:45 AM
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Gareth :
It is nice to have friends out there. Ken also has a tender for me . We just haven't figured out what else to trade.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 30 2011 : 10:39:12 AM
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I was thinking I have a tender with my Roundhouse Harriman 2-8-0 that won't be used cause I'm going to attach a "Canadian" tender. I don't have a pic, but maybe you know the unit and can say whether it will work. Perhaps Ken already has what you're looking for?
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
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Posted - October 01 2011 : 9:14:23 PM
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Frank, the cab looks better now that it's been stripped. I didn't know the top of the frame had the arched profile. It may not have the extra windows, but now it looks like a Reading cab.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on October 01 2011 9:24:12 PM
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Posted - October 03 2011 : 6:32:12 PM
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Nelson ; it is not the cab on the 4-4-4, it is for the P7 , 4-4-2. I have to try to make a new one. My drawing is in S gague so conversion isn't that hard. I am still stumbling around.
My new cab will be 1 scale foot longer. Wooten firebox cabs for rear cab locos are usually notched. The original cab for the p7 is notched. The cab for the C1 isn't. Pluss like I said it is longer
frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on October 06 2011 3:49:51 PM
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 4:21:42 PM
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post 7
* I finally have a scale drawing of the 4-4-4. Now I can make my overlays and slowly cut parts from the plastic sheet. I used a photo editing program to down size by percents.
frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 23 2011 10:41:16 AM
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 4:45:06 PM
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What Is The Locomotive Name For A 4-4-4 Type? Like 4-6-4 is A Hudson.
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 4:53:45 PM
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| do not think there is or was one as few were made,cpr called em jubilees but i think thats it but will stand corrected ken
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 6:49:29 PM
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Thanks TopTrain! I Give Thanks! Never Knew What They Were.
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 7:38:21 PM
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post 9
As to a class name. This was the first 4-4-4 class of locomotive made in the USA and it was 1915. It was named the Reading Type. Four were made and ran for around 4 years. Not just because of some vibration when in a HIGH Speed turn but the glaring fact that the PRR had made a answerer to it, and was making as good time in each run as the Reading. The Reading needed a faster loco. So the Reading redesigned the four C class and made the P7 class of Atlantic. The only 4 that were ever made. Yes they put the Reading on top again.
* A little catching up.
* I have assenbled the tender, and installed a beam along the bottom sides of the tender as the Reading tenders have. This caused me to raise the tender floor. this added to the Reading look.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on June 29 2016 8:36:47 PM
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 7:41:29 PM
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Well Done! I never can asemble resin kits. The fragile parts get me.
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 7:43:23 PM
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Very nice looking tender, Frank. Not a cheap kit, though.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 7:43:50 PM
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post 10
* Catchup two !
* * Having made a mistake on my first locomotive cab, and knowing the analogy " Your learn from your mistakes" I am wishing, and hoping this saying to be true. On my first cab try, I took the measurements placed on the loco design drawing and considered them to be true. I made a scale print of the locomotive drawing by scaling it down to where all measurements matched the measurements noted on the drawing. Now my base locomotive is a Mantua Reading P7sa. To date it. It would be 1917 to 1940s. I am rebuilding it back to its as built in 1914 and 1915. There were four built in these years.
* Things I didn't take note of (see), while making plains for this first cab. I do see it now ! The Reading as built photo of #110 shows a very rounded Wooten fire box. The model doesn't have this feature. it has a sort of a wooten fire box. Not the same as in the prototype photo. The front of the models fire box is the same, a well rounder wooten. The rear at the backhead is tapered in with some flat surfaces coming down from the arch at the boiler top to where the another bend brings the edges in. Well my little hammer and anvil has reshaped the fire box rear section to as close to a rounded wooten as in the photo. Next I used a contour gauge to reproduce to exact arc of the fire box. Transferring this shape to a piece of plastic sheet. I rescaled the drawing to match this arc. matching it to the drawing print as I scaled it up and down till I had a match. In other words I made a bigger cab.
* I went to work on the front 4 windows and reproduced them nicely in my new front cab wall. 1 wall down 3 walls to go.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on June 01 2020 10:07:08 AM
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 7:46:24 PM
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I Wish you Luck! I need to work on my engines. Like my FL9Chassis is not even started.
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Posted - October 20 2011 : 1:48:38 PM
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post 12
* OK ! New cab parts. Fresh out of the builders shops. Still a little flashing to remove.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on June 01 2020 10:07:49 AM
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Posted - October 20 2011 : 3:24:51 PM
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Nice! Looks Good so far!
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