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 Posted - November 28 2010 : 8:28:48 PM
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Here's a loco that I picked up for next to nothing at a show today. First of all, it was very dirty and there's some rust inside:
Right at the start, it didn't run. The light came on and there was a hum. So I cleaned the motor with contact cleaner, lubed everything, and spun the shaft with my finger a little bit. That got it started, but then it started lightly smoking. I cleaned some more, ran it, and there was almost a flame visible where the brushes make contact. More cleaning stopped the sparks/flame, but it still gets very hot (burns my finger to touch) and smokes slightly. It looks like it's melting. But, it's also running somewhat. I haven't tried it anymore or with any cars behind it.
So what do you guys think? Is the motor toast, or is there anything more to do? I'm thinking this is headed toward becoming a repower project. The body is actually pretty sharp looking when it's all together.
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Posted - November 28 2010 : 8:44:29 PM
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| Looks like a drop in fit for an Athearn motor...lemme know if you need one.
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Posted - November 28 2010 : 11:50:39 PM
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Is that the AHM Alco C424? Never seen one in person. Looks like it will be sharp when cleaned up. Let us know how it comes along. If an atlas motor does fit in that would be sweet.
~CamdenLine
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Posted - November 28 2010 : 11:58:37 PM
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If you have an Ohmmeter, you can check the resistance in the windings to see how much there is. If the windings are good, there should be no more than 1-5 ohms of resistance, I believe. Any more, and you've got wire that has been stressed and burnt,and is not conducting properly, and will keep getting hotter as the resistance increases due to further degradation in the conductivity of the wire. If you don't have an ohmmeter, you really can't diagnose the problem any further with any degree of accuracy. IF it's starting to flame, as you say, then I'd suspect the motor is toast(ed), and should be replaced before you do any (more) damage to the surrounding plastic parts. Looking at the brush contact area in the photo, I can see discolored copper areas,so I imagine the resistance has gotten quite high enough to cause that, or the current draw too high. Often the coating on the wire can melt too, and cause shorts, which adds to higher current draw and further heating up and burn-up of the motor, so a low resistance reading may not be indicative of a good motor, either. If you've cleaned it thoroughly of all oils, and it's still smoking, I'd quit while you're ahead,and just junk that motor. Not worth trying to save at this point. I think you've done all you can for it, and it's time to give up on it.
Jerry, electronic tech
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 01:12:45 AM
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| Use an exacto knife blade or a straight pin and clean the slots in the armature.
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 07:11:25 AM
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quote:Use an exacto knife blade or a straight pin and clean the slots in the armature.
Originally posted by AF Kid - November 29 2010 : 01:12:45 AM
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Actually, that IS a good point, if there's junk built up, it can cause a short as well. Gently clean out the slots between the copper contact areas, and if it still smokes after that , THEN consider it a goner.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 7:50:13 PM
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| Did you possibly get any lube or oil on the armature? If so that would cause the motor to over heat quickly. Try wiping the armature down to remove any oil.
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 9:31:17 PM
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Yep, it's the 424. I got this junker and a new in box one yesterday.
Thanks for all the advice, guys. Cleaning the slots in the armature was part of my first cleaning, as well as trying to clean off excess oil/lube. It was smoking before I even lubed it myself. There's rust that you can't see in the photo. I think the problem was rust causing a "drag" and allowing it to get hot. Whatever the case, it's gone now.
I thought the Athearn motor looked a little big for the narrow shell, so I used something I had laying in the junk box. It's a can motor that I think I took from a CD player, but I don't remember for sure. I'll be the first to admit it seems a little small, but it was free. The old motor was mounted on a pop-out frame. With a little modification, I popped this right in its place. Here's the result:
The loco itself runs great. Smooth start, good range from crawl to fly. However, it isn't much of a puller. It can only handle 3-4 cars. I think it may be due to the condition of the traction tires, or need for more weight. The wheels spin and skip...it's like spinning tires on the snow.
Anyway, here it is all cleaned up and ready to go. I'll tinker with it more later, and if the tiny motor burns out I'll just replace it...no big loss. I've got a couple bucks and about an hour invested in it, so I'm pretty happy.
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 9:44:23 PM
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Loving it. I need to keep my eyes open for one of those. It would look great next to my repowered bn C430.
~CamdenLine
Edited by - CamdenLine on November 29 2010 11:35:38 PM
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Posted - November 29 2010 : 11:57:40 PM
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I was thinking about this a little more...
It was obviously meant to be 8 wheel drive at some point in history. It even has the connector on the motor shaft for a second set of drive wheels. What would be great to do is find two of these, then take out the rear truck of one and make your own 8 wheel drive. All you would need aside from the second loco is a motor with two shafts, like the one used in the RS-3 discussion.
Of course, I'm sure you could find a nice 8 wheel version somewhere, but that would take all the fun out of it.
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Posted - November 30 2010 : 10:07:59 AM
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I know the real ALCOs smoke a lot...but the models do too??...
NO..thats a nice engine...mine didnt smoke but it had a wire loose
under the motor..that was a booger to fix
These are ROCO drive are they not? Got those "greyish" sideframes
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Posted - November 30 2010 : 11:06:18 AM
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neat but I seriously doubt that BN actually had that paint scheme on their Alcos
Can get motors if anyone needs one  just NOT double shafts 
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Posted - November 30 2010 : 11:39:39 PM
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Finally! Someone else is working on an AHM C424. Very cool!
I rebuilt a couple of these waaaaay back on the first AHM page, about midway down the list. I dropped in a single shaft Cannon motor. I thought of adding the second power truck, but never did get back to it. You can get all metal wheels from a Model Power/Roco FA/FB-1 or an RF-16 Shark. They drop in to replace the original wheel sets and gets rid of the traction tires. Then add some extra weight.
Let me know if you need a double shaft motor, I have some extras.
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Posted - November 30 2010 : 11:51:42 PM
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There's someone on ebay right now trying to sell a BN ALCO C424 along with a BN TYCO GP30 and three BN cars for $40. He lists the C424 as being made by Model Power. Did they pick it up after AHM? Looks identical down to the road number. I've never been real clear on the history of all these companies.
~CamdenLine
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Posted - November 30 2010 : 11:55:17 PM
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| I'm not going to do the double motor right away, but the wheels may be replaced soon. Frankly, the wheels on this thing suck. I've got it running great, but it derails too much. The wheels are just cheap. They've got metal outer wheels that snap over a smaller plastic wheel to insulate one side. That mess falls apart. I glued it, but they just need to go. It's definitely going to be a work-in-progress for a while.
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Posted - December 03 2010 : 9:52:22 PM
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Okay, so here's a bit of an update and some advice if anyone tries to work on one of these. I opened up the front truck to look at the gears again. BINGO! The gear is slipping around on the axle, and sliding out of alignment. All I had to do was slide it over, and the loco is running 100% better. I didn't really put it to the test, but it carried a consist of 8 cars off a siding with absolutely no problem, and didn't derail. I still think the wheels are horribly cheap, but at least now I know what to fix. Also, it's easy to snap off the covers and work on the wheels--much easier than removing the shell, which I need to do sometime to reverse the polarity.
I think one of the best things this hobby has taught me is patience. I've had several projects that absolutely frustrated me. When I put them down for a while, I came back and it was like a light bulb was turned on. I guess it helps to clear your head and look at things fresh.
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Posted - December 03 2010 : 11:56:12 PM
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This loco had to be my easiest repowering job. I mounted Mabuchi FK-130 with a cable tie and cable tie holder, which is stuck to the fuel tank weight. It actually makes a great mount because it isolates the frame from any motor vibration. The flywheel is a steel Roco one I had lying around, probably out of an Atlas hood unit. It's so smooth now that it's like a different loco, and has a much lower top speed. The original motor is very noisy with a high RPM.
B77, the insulated wheels on Roco's Atlas and Model Power units were made like that, too. The only ones I had fall apart were on dummy units I bought from Model Power's clearance page that hadn't been glued together, but a little CA took care of that. I'm surprised that the axle gear slipped like that... I thought you were going to tell us it had split. Is it a quiet runner now?
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 04 2010 : 10:21:45 AM
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| It's much quieter now--night and day from the original motor. Your version is what I would like to have done if I had a better motor, but I went with what I had. Someday I'm going to stock up on a few of those motors, and I may redo a few things. This loco seems like it was meant for customizing, the way the motor pops out of the frame. It would be great for someone's first attempt at repowering.
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