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 Posted - November 20 2010 : 10:14:32 PM
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Hi Everyone,
As stated in my intro thread, I am trying to get my Golden Eagle and Chattanooga diesels rolling again.
The Golden Eagle gets power, (the light comes on) but that's it. The Chattanooga is dead.
I've been doing a lot of reading and research thanks to this forum and I took both motors apart. From what I can see, the springs and brushes are gone and it's my understanding that I cannot get new ones or substitute other parts in there.
So I suppose my only options are to have dummy locos with light or just strip apart another working engine, which would still leave me with a dummy loco in the end.
Am I assuming correctly?
-Matthew-
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Posted - November 20 2010 : 10:48:56 PM
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quote:Hi Everyone,
I am trying to get my Golden Eagle and Chattanooga diesels rolling again.
... I took both motors apart. From what I can see, the springs and brushes are gone and it's my understanding that I cannot get new ones or substitute other parts in there.
Am I assuming correctly?
Originally posted by smitty9999Â -Â November 20 2010Â :Â 10:14:32 PM
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I can't believe there's no substitute for the original springs and brushes. That said, if this is confirmed by other Tyco experts and you need a pair, I may can salvage some from several of my spare junk motors I bought this past summer. Now, can you identify which motor(s) you have? Are they both PT's ? Should be easy enough for me to find at least one good used pair.
Jerry in Virginia ( heading to Florida for a week Monday)
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 21 2010 : 12:02:51 AM
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'Tis true: the PT POS has no afetrmarket support. With billions made, and the toys they're installed in generally worthless as a rule of thumb, why would there be?
I know a few people here have adapted springs and brushes from Athearn, Bachmann, etc to mixes degrees of success. Depends on what you're willing to invest.
It's not an unreasonable stretch to say that for what you might spend on replacement brushes and springs straight-up, that you could get a junker (or two or four) that has the parts you need. That's generally how it's played out for me, at least.
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Posted - November 21 2010 : 12:06:47 AM
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Ok, my last update today. I decided to invade my old A/FX slot car box, and check out the magnets and brushes in those vintage cars. Since the PT Tyco motor was based on an Aurora slot car armature design, I think, I figured they had to be close in size. Yep, it is! So guess what, gents? The brushes appear to be the same diameter ( I'll confirm Sunday with a micrometer ). The slot car brushes have a groove for the srping arm contact on the bottom side, so that will reduce it's life somewhat....but at least there's an equal size equivalent! The height appears to be the same as well. The other springs I found in the slot car box have a bit heavier gauge wire than the Tyco spring. Not sure how that will affect it's operation. But I tell ya what, I'm going to try to swap 3 things into an abused/broken PT motor to get it running - the slot car magnets ( same size ), the brushes ( same diameter and height, but grooved on one side ), and the springs ( look stiffer ). Actually, I may try the magnets last, as they're glued in. I'll leave those well enough alone for now. But I WILL try them later. And I have plenty of abused PT motors from my junkbox buddy to try this on.
So bottom line is, guys, if some slot car vendor is remaking the parts for the old A/FX aurora cars, then we may have the solution to the problem of replacement parts. Judging by the vintage parts I have, I think this should work! I'll be out of town all this coming week, so if I don't get a chance to do it Sunday, it'll have to wait until next weekend to make an Eagle fly.  Or , at least get a dead PT rolling again. I have enough A/FX parts to get at least one fixed, maybe more. I'll try to fix one before all my chores kick in tomorrow, or during. And pictorially document the progress and process. Well, my chariot just turned into a pumpkin, so time to head to bed. G'night, all!
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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 Posted - November 21 2010 : 10:06:57 AM
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Great work, Jerry.
I would have looked at the possibility of swapping out power trains- you have way more patience and wherewithal than I have!
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Posted - November 21 2010 : 10:53:45 AM
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quote:Great work, Jerry.
I would have looked at the possibility of swapping out power trains- you have way more patience and wherewithal than I have!
Originally posted by JohnnyKane - November 21 2010 : 10:06:57 AM
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NO, I just have more "stuff" to sort through and use. LOL. I'm a pretty good adapter of things, people are constantly amazed that I can turn this item into something totally different, or use parts of something to create something usable and unique. Just a mechanical/artistic talent I seem to have. But the key was that Tyco used the slot motor as the basis for their new PT engine, so the wheels ( and gears ) turned in my head, and I thought there ought to be some similarities somewhere that something would cross over and be the same dimension. Appears this is the case with the Aurora brushes. Slightly different design, but similar enough it may work for all us Tyco nuts.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 21 2010 : 10:10:28 PM
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It's ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE ! I have successfully merged AF/X slot car brushes and pick-up springs to the PT motor, and it hums along nicely! No stumbling, just a steady buzz. One thing I've noticed however is that if you tighten the brush plate down solid, the motor tends to squall, I pushed on the armature shaft and it'd start running smooth until I removed power, then it'd squall again. Backing off the screws 1/4 turn was enough to get the motor to run nice and quiet with the new hardware installed. I boneheadedly first installed the brushes and the springs reversed, it ran, but was cranky. Had a  moment there! Took it back apart, and put the springs in FIRST this time, and then the tapered brushes. Works fine, the stiffer spring doesn't seem to have much effect on the power band, I don't think. Wasn't bogging down, other than the over-tight brush plate.
So...guys...looks like the old Aurora AF/X style brushes and pick-up springs will work as an acceptable substitute for the original Tyco PT parts. And with the brushes tapered, there's less friction, hence there should be more power, albeit slight. Although in "scale" HP gain, it might be 10 to 100 HP. But I think this experiment is a success. I finished up my chores for this Sunday a little while ago, getting ready to head out of town EARLY 'morn, but I managed to fit in this upgrade to a former non-working, caked-up, dirty PT and turn it into a humming motor again. Woo-hoo! Only took about 30 minutes of my time to finish tearing it down, cleaning it up, and adding the new parts. I don't have any axles in this chassis yet, will have to tear apart another old unit to get those, but the main motivator is movin' again. That's a huge plus for us all, I think. Call it good,and I may have to order some of those Aurora AFX parts soon. I'll see how many original slot car brushes I have I can find first, I may find more, but for now, I'm happy that this experiment turned out successful. So, does this make the motor a PT/X ? If I add those neodymium magnets,maybe this PT can outrun an Athearn Hustler....  Well, all for this week, you won't hear from me again until I'm home next Friday or Saturday ( probably Saturday ). You might get a response in the next hour or so, but that's probably it. So, any questions, save'em for next weekend.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 15 2010 : 10:16:31 PM
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UPDATE
I fixed the Golden Eagle thanks to some patience, stubbornness and parts sent to me in the mail. The Chattanooga diesel cant be fixed because the mount inside the shell where the drive wheels connect to is missing, but 1 out of 2 isnt bad.
-Matthew-
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Posted - December 15 2010 : 11:55:53 PM
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sounds like my problem with the E-7 CofSF I got Had friend look at it & found out the shaft was worn smooth!  So he roughed it up abit added oil STP(?) to motor & bingo! It runs great now!  Apparently the wheels were also too tight & we rearanged them & now it works Yes motor is the Power Torque one we all hate
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 06:44:17 AM
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quote:UPDATE
The Chattanooga diesel cant be fixed because the mount inside the shell where the drive wheels connect to is missing, but 1 out of 2 isnt bad.
Originally posted by smitty9999Â -Â December 15 2010Â :Â 10:16:31 PM
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Is that the squarish black mounting plate type that is hell to get out of hte body? or is it a metal plate? There's several different pieces, and I'm not sure of all the configurations. I may have some spare mounting brackets, if I knew which one you needed I might have one.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 1:35:48 PM
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quote:quote:UPDATE
The Chattanooga diesel cant be fixed because the mount inside the shell where the drive wheels connect to is missing, but 1 out of 2 isnt bad.
Originally posted by smitty9999Â -Â December 15 2010Â :Â 10:16:31 PM
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Is that the squarish black mounting plate type that is hell to get out of hte body? or is it a metal plate? There's several different pieces, and I'm not sure of all the configurations. I may have some spare mounting brackets, if I knew which one you needed I might have one.
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â December 16 2010Â :Â 06:44:17 AM
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Yes I think its the hellish piece. I have the small plastic one that wraps around the motor, but as far as I can tell, there is supposed to be another piece inside the shell which that attaches to, and thats the one I'm missing.
-Matthew-
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 7:23:46 PM
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quote:.... I have successfully merged AF/X slot car brushes and pick-up springs to the PT motor, and it hums along nicely! No stumbling, just a steady buzz.
So...guys...looks like the old Aurora AF/X style brushes and pick-up springs will work as an acceptable substitute for the original Tyco PT parts. ....
So, does this make the motor a PT/X ?
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â November 21 2010Â :Â 10:10:28 PM
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Brilliant! Good job. And I think PT/X sounds like a good designation to me.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 8:09:15 PM
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Yes I think its the hellish piece. I have the small plastic one that wraps around the motor, but as far as I can tell, there is supposed to be another piece inside the shell which that attaches to, and thats the one I'm missing.
Originally posted by smitty9999Â -Â December 16 2010Â :Â 1:35:48 PM
[/quote]
So, does it, or should it, look like THIS? :
I don't have many GP-20's, I may have one of these (left-side, non-powered truck ) brackets that is cracked, but could be glued and usable. If that's the one, I'll see if I can find it again in my parts bin,and see if it's not too bad to be reused.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 9:13:07 PM
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Hi Jerry,
This is the current state of my motor
I believe I need another part that will hold the motor into the shell, sine as it is now, there is no way of attaching it to the shell.
I appreciate you helping me in trying to figure out this
-Matthew-
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 9:21:50 PM
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quote:Hi Jerry,
I believe I need another part that will hold the motor into the shell, sine as it is now, there is no way of attaching it to the shell.
I appreciate you helping me in trying to figure out this
Originally posted by smitty9999Â -Â December 16 2010Â :Â 9:13:07 PM
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Oh, Ok, THAT piece is fairly common, the two-piece swivel, it's that rectangular mounting bracket on the non-power truck that is hell to get out, and harder to find. I have more of the type you're missing, so I can send you one of those. PM me your address, and I'll send you one.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 9:24:19 PM
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Hmmm, PT/X. I like it. Good work. Now if you can find a way to also make a PT reliable...
~CamdenLine
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Posted - December 16 2010 : 11:53:59 PM
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quote:Hmmm, PT/X. I like it. Good work. Now if you can find a way to also make a PT reliable...
~CamdenLine
Originally posted by CamdenLine - December 16 2010 : 9:24:19 PM
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You know...I was thinking ( or is that fantasizing? )...suppose I added another armature to the motor? In other words stack them side by side on a longer shaft, add on additional magnets, solder the two together skewed, so you'd have a 3-pole skew motor....would it work? Tje problem I see is getting the old shaft out, and installing a longer one. But I can't see why it wouldn't work. You'd be doubling the motor's size, basically. And just use much longer screws, you only need one set of brushes, the armatures would be connected at the tips. Theoretically, I think it might work, and help increase the power. But I'm not sure.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 17 2010 : 09:41:54 AM
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If the armatures wire wired in parallel, it would up the current draw. They could be wired in series, but it would be a bear. Besides, I don't think the added thickness of the motor would clear the truck bolster, so even if the two armatures could increase the torque, it would be pure Rube Goldberg.
CD tray motors have more than enough torque to repower these things and outlast the gearing. If this were 25 years ago, I'd throw in an MU-2. A more likely upgrade would be neodymium magnets, which would be interesting to try if they ever start making them for old AFX cars.
The Tyco Depot
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