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 Posted - April 18 2010 : 10:53:07 PM
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Alco Fan and i were talking earlier this evening and Tyco and Pemco seem to be the only ones who took a stab at making the Alco 430. With all these Tyco's still out there running and some modelers have even customized them - Why hasn't a manufacturer to date at least attempted to sell a can motor frame to fit these old units. With the technology we now have - it isn't impossible to make this happen. Or even a manufacturer to market replacement motor parts - which is probably the cheapest route to go for old Tyco's. If i had the money to get someone to make motor parts i would -but until then........... . Many including me and others have been toying with new ways to -re-power old Tyco locomotives for a while. Some of us have used cd tray motors with success but requires machining the block to get to work. If you look on Ebay - There is a lot of Tyco listed and tons more out there that i s not - but found at Flea - Markets, yard sales , antique stores etc. There is a market for power re-placement - The Question is - Who would listen since many frown - or use to frown - on Tyco. Tyco is as popular today as it was when it first came out. I don't recommend Tyco for a new beginner as they are sorta of high maintenance locomotive -but fun in the same respect. I am actively searching on the net for a small electric motor manufacturer and have found many that could possibly produce re-palcement parts. Please reply and post your thoughts or comments - good or bad
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Posted - April 18 2010 : 11:13:32 PM
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| Over the years I seen alot of people,even in my family throw away an engine when it quits. Now im betting they are thinking about what they did after i told them about this site. I grew up with tyco from trains to slot cars .It brings the kid out in me again and sharing the trains with my daughters is fun to.To throw away a tyco is like asking me to junk my falcon,somethings just cant be done.But Brian and alco fan is right for now we just have to rely on used parts.
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Posted - April 18 2010 : 11:19:48 PM
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I agree with all you have said. I have wondered why nobody thought of the re-powering idea before...
How many Tyco/Mantua engines were made?
Hmmm......
Mike
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Posted - April 19 2010 : 09:42:37 AM
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Actually, there have been three manufacturers of the plastic C430 (thus far).
1. Tyco, which we're all familiar with - it's a nice body casting, and with some shell detailing and a decent paint job, a decent model will result. It's neat to see the look on peoples' faces when you tell them it's a Tyco.
2. Pemco, which appears to be a Tyco clone in terms of shell detailing, but modified with an actual frame and separate walkway. For some reason, it looks like a C855 fuel tank was snuck under it too.
3. Mehano, maker of AHM and IHC diesel locomotive models, along with some Life-Like and Model Power locos. Their C430 was only ever offered by AHM/IHC and then Tyco after IHC bought the train operations. The construction methods differ from the Tyco unit - there's a separate cab roof, there's cab glass, a one-piece shell/walkway with thick handrails... but an eight wheel drive power setup with a horizontally mounted can motor. Oddly, the same C855 fuel tank looks to have been shoved under their C430 too.
Of all units, the Mehano has the best drive, and the motor can be replaced with a Mashima or Sagami which will result in a very,very smooth runner, on par with a Kato or new Atlas. The Mehano shell detailing is the worst of the three with Tyco being the best.
Kris Carver-Seaboyer
Modelling the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in New Brunswick, Canada in the 1978-1984 time frame
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Posted - April 19 2010 : 09:45:38 AM
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To get somewhat back on topic, it would be possible to remotor the Tyco, but a drop-in motor just ain't gonna happen. Look at the design of the loco - nice one piece shell, but no frame at all. Two small subframes hold in the power truck and the idler truck, and the wights are screwed into the floor.
You'd have to scratchbuild a chassis to fit under the Tyco shell. Of course, from there, you can use Proto 2000 or Atlas trucks, a Sagami or Mashima motor, Atlas driveshafts, flywheels from another source... For sure, you'd have a great runner.
Kris Carver-Seaboyer
Modelling the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in New Brunswick, Canada in the 1978-1984 time frame
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Posted - April 19 2010 : 12:32:35 PM
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Couple of thoughts here:
1. Manufacture exact replacement parts for PT or MU2. Would this be a copyright problem?
I noticed from this forum that there is a patent on these motors.
2. Repower. To use the existing PT truck. The CD motor seems like the only likely solution. Could someone cast new truck bodies to accept a CD motor.
3. Repower, with another frame. I have repowered a TYCO SD24 using an Athearn SD-9 frame.
Takes some milling work. I would think that there is a frame out there that would fit the C430 shell.
4. Repower an MU-2. My brother repowered a C430 with a motor from NWSL. The motor setup is virtually the same as the MU-2. Even used the TYCO geared axles/wheels.
I like the TYCO C430 and the SD24. As far as scale fidelity and quality, I think they are just fine.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
Edited by - NC shortlines on April 19 2010 12:33:14 PM
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Posted - April 19 2010 : 9:30:36 PM
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quote:Alco Fan and i were talking earlier this evening and... With all these Tyco's still out there running and some modelers have even customized them - Why hasn't a manufacturer to date at least attempted to sell a can motor frame to fit these old units. With the technology we now have - it isn't impossible to make this happen. .... I am actively searching on the net for a small electric motor manufacturer and have found many that could possibly produce re-palcement parts. Please reply and post your thoughts or comments - good or bad
Originally posted by Brianstyco - April 18 2010 : 10:53:07 PM
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Check out this website :
http://www.73.com/a/0082.shtml
It's Surplustraders.net, and they have a huge section of small electric can motors, from 3v up to 24v and beyond, I"ve found some nice dual-shaft types that run 3-18v range for a few dollars. If any of you adventurous types want to check it out, maybe you can find something that might fit. I'm short on cash these days, so I'm not looking to buy right now, but would love to buy one of those small 14,000 RPM jobs for my bullet train project! Anyway, check it out, you might recognize some of the manufacturer names like Mabuchi and others.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - April 19 2010 : 10:41:27 PM
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Guys:
If you do a search for TERP, you'll see Ray and I and others have worked on thihs idea. I have some stuff in the fire but it takes a back seat to several other things mostly to do with getting back on my feet after a very protracted dark period in my life.
it's just not a high priority. graftonterminalrr hit it on the head when he observed that the lack of a frame cripples the repowering process. OK say you put the shell on another chassis, but now you don't have a Tyco or a Mantua. We hada member put a Super 630 shell on one of the Bowser C-630 chassis and it probably looked and ran great but it wasn't a Tyco anymore.
There are a couple of options. Repowering by way of rewind the armature with better windings, replace the permamnent mags with better ones and replace the gear stock especially the pinion and reduction. Still pretty much a Tyco. I call that the Orthodox solution. A new truck asssembly using a completly new motor that "pops" into the existing Gymbal would be what I calll the reformed solution. ray and I though brass was a good choice here.
Anyway, thats my thoughts for now. Something I definitely want to do. But I still have to acquire a Unimat from a buddy to do some of this work....
I hope thats useful...
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - April 24 2010 : 7:28:25 PM
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Interesing topic Brian for especially those of us that love the 430. I just spotted this topic. I guess for us it's fun to hot rod those Alcos.
Alco Fan
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