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HOScale Model Railroader
Little Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  02:17:33 AM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add HOScale Model Railroader to Buddylist
It's a shame. IHC had so many of those old POLA molds I loved to kitbash - I wonder who gets them now? My guess would be Model Power, which seems to be doing pretty good business with distributors and direct sales. IHC has a long history of dying and coming back time and time again ... so who knows if they're really six feet under.
I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
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theoldreliable
Big Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  02:57:05 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add theoldreliable to Buddylist
IHC's problems started WAAAY back in 1987. Here is a court case where IHC unsuccessfully sued JMC/Con-Cor and Rivarossi over conflicting tooling issues. IHC lost.

IHC couldn't bring out enough product - and variety - to give their competition, well...competition.

http://www.alanhcasperesq.com/forms/conway.pdf

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tykowolf
Big Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  08:09:31 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add tykowolf to Buddylist
Interesting read, theoldreliable.

Couldn't see how IHC would survive once Mehano-China decided to focus on European models. If only they hadn't squandered the product lines salvaged from Tyco. Hopefully their successor will make the most of what they have. Super Century 630 anyone?

*Takes his IHC 2-10-2, puts it on a miniature viking ship, lights it on fire, and pushes it out to sea*

*Salutes*
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graftonterminalrr
Little Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  08:41:10 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add graftonterminalrr to Buddylist
I dunno. I mean, this IS a Tyco forum, so I have to be careful...

...but most of the Mehano/IHC line was pretty junky.

The freight cars - well, no. For the most part there was nothing really useful, except for a few exceptions like the Flexi-Flo car and the low-rider stock car.

The diesel locomotive line, as far as I'm concerned, can die. If it's an old IHC I want, there are plenty on Ebay and swap meets.

But the steam line was pretty good. Dave Harrison at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry said that for a cheap steamer the IHC line couldn't be beat. They'd run all day long and whenthey finally died it was cheaper to replace the loco rather than do repairs. And these guys run their locos HARD, if not harder than Northlandz (actual operations are involved like switching and reversing at different speeds, unlike "set the throttle and ler 'er rip" like at Northlandz).

They were pretty decent, ran well, and decently detailed, not to mention that the steam line got an overhaul in about 2001-2002 that resulted in metal frames, all wheels finally getting RP25 contours and blackened valve gear.

Ah well, there will still be plenty of new-in-box items out there. I love my 4-6-4 and 2-10-2.

Kris Carver-Seaboyer

Modelling the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in New Brunswick, Canada in the 1978-1984 time frame
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ChrisC
Hudson

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  09:09:50 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ChrisC to Buddylist
Ugh, sad news. Though I noticed with Walthers put a small handful of IHC's on sale and reduced their stock down to nothing, then later IHC's website disappeared, something was up. I never tried their rolling stock, and my one friend had one of their SD24's which runs ok (though is way too brighly colored in its Chessie scheme, the Tyco paint was far superior). But yea their steamers were flat out awesome. The one 4-6-2 runs like a watch, and my 2-10-2 runs so quiet and pulls so well that my friend bought one of his own when they started clearing out the inventory. Had they ever bothered to play with the details on the 2-10-2's a little more they really could have went places with that engine, it just runs THAT good.
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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  09:33:11 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
Too bad! Unlike everyone else, I seem to be the only one who will miss their diesels. Where else can you get a plastic C415? And their SD35 ran great! And the C628? It sure beat paying the cost for a Stewert and ran just fine.
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romcat
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  09:38:28 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add romcat to Buddylist
Hey guys:

What kind of Pacific did IHC make? Huge drivers or more general use kinda thing, and are all the 2-10-2's drivers flanged or are some "blind"

-Gareth


"A is A"
-Aristotle
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ChrisC
Hudson

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  09:50:01 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ChrisC to Buddylist
I don't have a picture handy but the Pacific's had big drivers, much bigger than the Sante Fe. Detail was about the same between the two. I THINK (at least on the later 2-10-2's with the RP25 wheels) that the center driver was blind. The 5 axles will bend into a curve, but not nearly as much as a Proto 2000 Sante Fe will. Mine has a habit of the front drive wheels derailing in a tight turn and the engine will just let them hang till it gets a chance to rerail them. Sorta odd, but we've run it for hours while its done this with no issues, just a click when the front wheels pop off in a tighter turn and another click as they hop back on. Mine was pulling a consist of 10 or so passenger cars & 2 freight cars and it even with the front drivers hanging off on a turn or two it just keeps going like nothing is wrong.

Hypo - Only diesel of their's I have experience with is a late SD24. I've never seen any of the older ones do you have a picture or two?

Edited by - ChrisC on December 10 2009 09:51:31 AM
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microbusss
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  10:49:34 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
well that sucks Was hoping to find some fast food resturants from there Well I'll just look at flea markets old hobby stores & stuff Anyone know what DID happen to IHC? Was there a ad in Model Railroader or some magazine about its demise?
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graftonterminalrr
Little Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  11:42:29 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add graftonterminalrr to Buddylist
The IHC Mikado and Pacific are closely related (I've had a few of each). The only difference is of course the running gear. The Mikes use a 63" or thereabouts driver, and the Pacific uses a 70" or so driver. They're not as large as the Mantua Pacific drivers, for comparison.

The latest runs of the Pacific and Mikado utilize a metal frame and RP25 wheels (finally!).

The 2-10-2 has a blind centre driver but all others are flanged. As well, there are two different variations that I'm aware of - IHC locos have fully spring (except the middle) drivers and middle drivers that actually contact the rail. The President's Choice variation (mine) from the "Big Ten" set has an Elesco feedwater heater, some CN detailing touches like the V shaped number boards, and springing on the second and fourth driver set only. As well, the center driver does not touch the rails, and the middle driver set has no bearings in the frame.

IHC has made a few different steamers. Here's what I can think of at the moment:

Ex-Pemco tooling 2-6-0. The original had a tender drive; the current model has a firebox-mounted motor. It's a pretty close copy of an SP/T&NO M4 Mogul but can be kitbashed easily.

Camelback 2-6-0 using the regular 2-6-0's running gear and a new boiler/cab.

Mehano 4-6-2 and 2-8-2. This model's been around since at least the early '70s and has been sold by AHM, IHC, Life-Like and (I think) Model Power. It is also available as "semi-streamlined" with side cladding.

Ex-AHM 0-4-0 Docksider. This has full valve gear and may or may not be related to the former Rivarossi 0-4-0 from the '60s.

Ex-Tyco/Mantua 2-8-0 and 0-8-0. Has been updated with new frame and firebox-mounted motor.

Ex-Pemco 4-8-2. This has also been updated from a tender-driver to a firebox-mounted motor.

The Mountain's boiler, details and tender are used across the "bigger steam" IHC range. This includes the 4-6-4 Hudson, available as standard or semi-streamlined; the semi-streamlined 4-8-2, and the 2-10-2 which has upgraded detailing and a second sand dome.


Kris Carver-Seaboyer

Modelling the Grafton Terminal Railway, set in New Brunswick, Canada in the 1978-1984 time frame

Edited by - graftonterminalrr on December 10 2009 11:50:09 AM
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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  12:27:54 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
Here are a couple shots of my IHC C415. I added the numbers to the number board, painted the white end railing, removed talgo couplers, and body mounted knuckles. I also added a flywheel. The loco comes stock with a very nice can motor, all-wheel drive, and all-wheel pick up. The only real downer is that the radiator grills are a combo of the prototype and production models.


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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  12:31:27 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
Here are a couple shots of my C628. I added wire grabs, numbers in number boards, white railing, rooftop bell, and body mounted knuckles. It came stock with a nice can motor w/ flywheel, all-wheel drive, and 8-wheel pick up.

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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  12:36:46 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
Two shots of the SD35. I added numbers in the number boards, white hand rails, and replaced horn hook couplers with knuckles. It comes stock with a nice can motor w/2 flys, all-wheel drive, 8-wheel electrical pick up, heavy metal chassis, and directional lights. Also came with body mounted couplers. It got a great review by RMC.

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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  12:43:23 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
A couple shots of my SD24. All I did with this was to add a TON of ballast and replace the horn hook couplers with knuckles. I was most disappointed with this loco! I expected it to be much better when it came out. The loco comes with a nice can motor, all-wheel drive and 8-wheel electrical pick up. But it is way under weight with a flimsy 2 part plastic chassis. Mine must have been assembled on a Friday afternoon as it came with NO bearings on the worms. It does use the old Tyco shell but has the truck mounting holes filled in rather well. This loco is not made by Mehano.

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smokie
Hudson

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  1:15:59 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add smokie to Buddylist
i must be the only person alive that likes ihc rolling stock. i've got around 30-40 ihc cars, & i think their awesome for the money. i've been wanting a 4-6-4 hudson, but i've never seen an ihc hudson in person to see how they look. their steam engines do have a good reputation of being good runners & fairly well detailed. i hope they come back onto the market. the only thing i wish they would change is to fill the pilots on their deisel engines, & eaz up on the paint a little. the tyco sd24 engines were painted so much better.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on December 10 2009 1:18:23 PM
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GoingInCirclez
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  1:25:15 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add GoingInCirclez to Buddylist
I'd need to do more research to vet my assumptions, but it seems IHC basically resurrected from the ashes of AHM (based on similarities of packaging, promotion, and outsourcing, not to mention timelines), but didn't always learn from their mistakes.

Biggest would be not reacting to the changing market - that is, the demand for more upscale, finished-out-of-box, silly-levels-of-detail stuff. Keeping the old Pola kits available was probably the best thing they ever did. Their passenger sets were popular as well until Walthers and Rapido upped the ante with ridiculous detail and made the IHC offerings hopelessly obsolete.

To me the Tyco freight car re-releases exemplify their mistakes. The paint jobs were fantastic - exactly the kinds of stuff we wished Tyco was doing at the time... but only 10 or 20 years too late. By the time they came out, you could still get better Athearn, Walthers, Roundhouse, et al kits for a reasonable price. And the ex-tyco cars still had silly mistakes like high-cube roofwalks and mixed-up centerflow hatches; the hopper bays weren't painted; steps were filled in.

Because IHC only distributed to hobby shops, they limited their market. Kids don't go to hobby shops anymore... not in the kind of numbers to keep them in business. The adults and modelers who do, are going to pass up the IHC cars (and locos, by extension) for the exact reasons I mentioned. Even here, complaints about the locos are rampant. Sheez, it's a diesel loco that sold new for $25 when most anything else was twice that - even Bachmanns are $60+. What did you expect? For $25, even with their faults, they run freaking 10 times better than any Tyco *ever* will, I can tell you that!

It's a shame: IHC really seemed to be the last hold-out trying to bring or keep interesting, beginner-priced equipment to market. They should be thanked and commended for this. Unfortunately, that market disappeared long ago. When even Wal-mart couldn't sell complete, high-quality Athearn sets for $50 a few years ago, you had to know that the market for "newbies" was nonexistant and not worth catering to. Seems like IHC refused to admit this. Or knew it, but couldn't do anything about it... can't fund R&D when you can't sell what you have...


As I said before, we're our own worst enemies. Have fun running your Rapido equipment upside-down or knocking it off the track so you can see all that detailed crap on the underframe. In the meantime, when there's nothing "inexpensive but exciting and shiny and new" for you to suggest to kids or even newly-interested adults, we'll know why.


IHC is not the first victim of all this. Athearn and Roundhouse are no more-- just ever-more-expensive boutique brands of Horizon. Walthers amplified this pissing contest by buying Life-Like. Rivarossi, Marklin and Mehano have all gone bankrupt. Lionel and K-Line, who can tell the difference?

Is it any wonder that model manufacturers are all consolidating, especially as wholly-owned brands under the marketing arms of the distributors who make the most money on this stuff?


Thanks for the effort, IHC. It was fun while it lasted.


Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 10 2009 1:26:43 PM
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HOScale Model Railroader
Little Six

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  2:00:46 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add HOScale Model Railroader to Buddylist
From what I heard, but don't quote me on it, it wasn't IHC's production (or sometimes lack of) or competition that drove the final nail into their coffin. Supposedly about 2 years ago, according to a former IHC employee on another forum, IHC's owner (who already was in poor health) became gravely ill. I'm not sure if he passed away or just had to step away from the company, but he was the prime mover that kept resurrecting IHC from the dead these past few decades. When he wasn't there anymore to oversee things, whoever stepped in to manage day to day operations at IHC decided to let the company slowly fade. No more production runs, let go employees - whatever inventory they had left they distributed until everything was gone. That was about the time IHC's website became bare of products and distributors started to remove IHC from their catalogs. Then, IHC just disconnected their phones and closed. Someone said their Philadelphia, PA location is vacant/for lease.

But here's something interesting - I was looking for parts for an Exxon Gas Station (Tyco #7757). Broke the darn sign post and somehow the chimney got lost. I knew IHC still made it. But, accidentally I sent an email to Model Power inquiring about parts for this model. Instead of getting a "sorry, we don't make that HO Scale model, IHC did" ... surprisingly ... Model Power replied "we'll send you replacements as soon as they become available." Interesting. At least I know where one set of molds possibly made their way to after IHC went under. :^)

I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
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microbusss
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tiger

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  3:49:19 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
yeah HOScale I Googled the address it is a vacant/for lease building Shame really & I need to find parts for my one observation Rio Grande car too
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NickelPlate759
Big Boy



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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  4:18:03 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
HOScale, you nailed it. There are a pair of guys who are former AHM/IHC employees that sell at a local train show, and they told me a year ago that Bernie Paul was elderly and in poor health, and that they didn't think the company would survive him. I had asked them about the company's condition because of the dwindling stock on the IHC website at the time.

Theoldreliable, thanks for the link to that pdf about the lawsuit. The inter-relationship of AHM/IHC and Rivarossi has been a tangled and inscrutable one, so this helps explain the later years, and why various products like passenger cars, the E8, and 4-4-0's were sold by both companies during the 90's. My LHS owner told me years ago that Rivarossi had been left virtually bankrupt by some of AHM's business practices when they went under in the early 80's. I'm sure that lawsuit was the final straw.

I hope someone picks up their line of steamers and continues the upgrades. Model Power seems like the obvious choice, as they've done well with the Mantua Classics, and the addition of the IHC line could make them the only source of reliable, budget-priced steam locos. I too think the diesel line should be dropped unless they are re-tooled with heavy metal frames, separately applied handrails, and body-mounted couplers, at the very least.


The Tyco Depot
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martin67
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  4:21:40 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add martin67 to Buddylist
Wow, it'really a shame!! Recently I bought my one and only IHC, a SD24.

Seems to me that also the suppliers for IHC got lost. Pola is out of busines (belonging to Faller now), Mehano stopped last year, Rivarossi/Lima Group is meanwhile with Hornby.

Martin



http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/lima-modellbahn/index.htm

Edited by - martin67 on December 10 2009 6:03:16 PM
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  5:19:02 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
I just received this email reply from one of the IHC guys:

"Hi Nelson. Bernie is in poor health and is in a nursing home with his wife. I was down to IHC last week and they have just about nothing left. They are just about out of business."


The Tyco Depot
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shaygetz
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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  6:10:58 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add shaygetz to Buddylist
Sorry to hear that, no complaints here, as was said before, "Thanks for the effort, IHC. It was fun while it lasted."...

Sound car...



4-4-0 American...



Streamlined Pacific...



Corkey's Carnival train...



I was just ducky over their Magic-Mate couplers---no transition cars...



...an earlier Pacific with larger drivers...

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microbusss
Big Boy





tiger

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 Posted - December 10 2009 :  7:46:54 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
say I got that exact sound car too Need a truck for it tho
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LoopnHook
Big Six

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 Posted - December 12 2009 :  5:24:11 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add LoopnHook to Buddylist
I found the Old Reliables post most interesting!

To add to the tale here is a news item of interest...
from The New York Times, 7 Sep, 1982

"The General Hobbies Corporation of Philadelphia has announced that it, and its subsidiary, Associated Hobby Manufacturers Inc., have filed petitions for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the Federal Bankruptcy Act.

Under Chapter 11, companies are permitted to continue operations while they attempt to reorganize their obligations with their creditors. The consolidated assets of General Hobbies and its subsidiary as of June 30 amounted to $6.8 million and their consolidated liabilities totaled $13.3 million.

Robert Riesner, president of General Hobbies and the subsidiary, said that the companies would remain in business and expected to fill all orders. The companies assemble, package and distribute toy trains and other toy and hobby products."

Now, the question "Who is Robert Riesner?

One of the rules governing companies and individuals is that they must report to the Security and Exchange Commission, within 10 days, the acquisition of equity securities of a public company where the beneficial interest therein exceeds 5%.

from The SEC News Digest, a private publication, 25 Feb 1980

Robert Riesner, Robert L Frome, Ronald Langman and George T Dormer purchased 1,607,237 shares of General Hobbies Common Stock, 40.4% of the total issued, on 8 Feb 1980.

Robert Riesner, had been president of the now-defunct Interstate Department Stores, an $800 million group that included Toys "R" Us and the Boston Stores. Toys "R" Us survived is now a privately owned entity.

And so it goes...

Loopy

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Edited by - LoopnHook on December 12 2009 5:28:16 PM
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Hypoponera
Mikado


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 Posted - December 13 2009 :  11:58:42 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Hypoponera to Buddylist
Hey LoopnHook,

You got to stop doing so much research! You've given me a head ache. I've had enough trouble just trying to keep track of who swapped molds with who! Now your adding names to the equation. Ouch!!
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HOScale Model Railroader
Little Six

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 Posted - December 18 2009 :  02:42:12 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add HOScale Model Railroader to Buddylist
quote:

Pola is out of busines (belonging to Faller now)
Martin


You mean "belonged" to Faller - Faller just went out of business not more than a month or so ago. (But it seems Kibri picked up most of Faller's molds, including Pola).

I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - December 23 2009 :  2:48:14 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
They sell at the Greenberg show when it's in NJ. They're from the Philly area, so I think they go to the York, PA show, and perhaps a few others.
The Tyco Depot
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kovacste000
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 Posted - April 03 2014 :  10:15:34 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
Here's my IHC equipment.


I've always wondered why the IHC engines have Mehano printed on the bottom. Either Mehano made them and IHC sold them or IHC got some castings from Mehano. I think the first one is the answer.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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microbusss
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tiger

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 Posted - April 03 2014 :  11:15:15 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
I actually got that IHC circus set
Probally the LAST set IHC ever made too
Will get a pic of it soon
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JNXT 7707
Big Boy


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 Posted - April 03 2014 :  3:52:41 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add JNXT 7707 to Buddylist
I miss IHC, for many of the reasons I miss Athearn's BB line. Decent quality and affordable prices.
And, a lot of interesting stuff. Most of my experience has been with their passenger cars. Probably not many prototypical examples right off the shelf, but they were - at least I found them to be - amenable to massaging and they were easy to work with. Enough detail for me, easily upgradable with better wheelsets, couplers and added weights...and didn't cost so much that you were afraid to mess with them.
They also offered an extensive line of buildings and accessories.
I ventured into the Walther's line of passenger cars briefly last year, after riding the Empire Builder, very enthused and determined to model it for my railroad. Well...let me tell you those cars are perfect works of art, and I'm half-paranoid just taking them out of their boxes for fear of leaving a stray fingerprint. I stopped with 4 cars, that will be enough, even after I managed to get them in the $40 range. Was briefly interested in trying to find a transition sleeper, but really don't feel like spending over $200 for a passenger car. ANY passenger car.

http://tycodepot.com/
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NickelPlate759
Big Boy



Rivarossi Logo

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 Posted - April 03 2014 :  10:39:08 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
quote:

I've always wondered why the IHC engines have Mehano printed on the bottom. Either Mehano made them and IHC sold them or IHC got some castings from Mehano. I think the first one is the answer.

Originally posted by kovacste000 - April 03 2014 :  10:15:34 AM



IHC was just an importer. As far as I can determine, Bernie Paul burned bridges with Rivarossi with the lawsuit posted above, so they had to rely on Mehano to fill the void.

In spite of this Rivarossi and Mehano continued their business relationship, sharing Rivarossi tooling for the E8's and old time 4-4-0's through the early 2000's. The 4-4-0's were sold by Rivarossi and IHC with the small Mabuchi can motors Mehano used in their small steam, with Rivarossi adding blackened RP25 wheels to theirs.

Nice Mogul, and the tampo printing on the C-415 looks sharp. I don't think they are too common.

The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on April 03 2014 10:40:00 PM
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kovacste000
Big Boy



Daylight 4449

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 Posted - April 03 2014 :  10:51:28 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
quote:
quote:

I've always wondered why the IHC engines have Mehano printed on the bottom. Either Mehano made them and IHC sold them or IHC got some castings from Mehano. I think the first one is the answer.

Originally posted by kovacste000 - April 03 2014 :  10:15:34 AM



IHC was just an importer. As far as I can determine, Bernie Paul burned bridges with Rivarossi with the lawsuit posted above, so they had to rely on Mehano to fill the void.

In spite of this Rivarossi and Mehano continued their business relationship, sharing Rivarossi tooling for the E8's and old time 4-4-0's through the early 2000's. The 4-4-0's were sold by Rivarossi and IHC with the small Mabuchi can motors Mehano used in their small steam, with Rivarossi adding blackened RP25 wheels to theirs.

Nice Mogul, and the tampo printing on the C-415 looks sharp. I don't think they are too common.

Originally posted by NickelPlate759 - April 03 2014 :  10:39:08 PM

I don't know much about the C-415 except it what the type is, that it's IHC, and that it looks nice and runs nice. I have no idea of when it was made. My best guess is within the last 10 to 20 years.Also, I got it with the warranty card, instructions and everything it probably came with for $15. I've seen it going for almost $30 in some places.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."

Edited by - kovacste000 on April 03 2014 10:55:10 PM
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