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 Posted - May 03 2009 : 10:18:11 AM
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Gen II Alco Example
One lucky find at the train show in Cumberland was a Mantua SOO C430 Alco in good to excellent condition, or better. The box was marked 235L and according to the 74 catalog shows a Soo MU2 C430. It also happens to be Power Torque, PT, powered but with a screw in tank like the PT powered So76 Alcos, with Mantua Tyco on the bottom. Notice there are no slots above the tank. This is a one of a kind shell. I'm calling it a Gen II because the MU2 Alcos were the first of their kind and it makes sense that this one is some kind of transitional version between the Gen I and the Gen III which has the PT and snap in weight and fuel tank. This is the second version I have found with the first being an SF Gen II C430 which is posted. http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2933 ,
Both locos have the same type of early PT motor. I'm sure that others have these versions and that there may be more road names other than SF and SOO in this class.
Several features are the 630 type truck cover that holds the axles in place with only the powered truck having one screw but basically snapping in to position. Also it has the fragile coupler boxes as in the early Mantua Tyco Alco 630s, with the two prongs that hold the box onto the truck in a slot on the end. To remove the truck cover you place a slotted screw driver in a slot behind the coupler box and pull back to release the catch. One more feature is that the rear truck frame looks a bit different than the traditional PT rear truck.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Alco fan/Gen_II _Alco.jpg
/tyco/forum/uploaded/alco fan/000_0036.jpg
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on May 25 2009 09:31:29 AM
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Posted - May 24 2009 : 9:19:26 PM
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Gen II Alco Example
Here is the third Gen II 4301 Alco I have uncovered. They are the Mantua Tyco tanked and PT powered transitional locos before the Tyco snap-in tanked Alcos were here to stay. I have the Soo, the SF, this Chessie and of course the common So76s that most Tyco collectors are familiar with already. The rear number boards are filled in and you notice the lack of slots above the walkway that the Tyco Alcos have.
There are truck side frame variations between all three generations of the 430 Alcos. This version doesn't have the protruding piece on the bearings, the Gen II doesn't have the two noticeable holes between the coil springs as the Gen I and the Gen III has four leaf springs instead of three like the others. The Gen III leaf springs stick out from the side frame more noticeably than the I and II. Under careful examination you'll see that none of the side frames appear to have come from the same tool. This Chessie has a Gen III side frame on the engineers side since it wasn't shown in the auction pic and was missing when delivered.
There is a bit more info in the earlier Gen II post especially about the early PT 630 Alco looking truck covers.
What's in your collection?
The side frame pictures are in order Gen I, Gen II, Gen III. Each design has it's own significant differences, some mentioned earlier. The Gen I frame has a hole on either side of the leaf spring that the others don't. This reminds me of a similar hole on the side frame of the Diecast RF16 Sharks made by Mantua. The coil spring spacing seems wider from II to I and in III the coils looks to be more in number than the others. The pictures show more differences than I have listed.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on May 25 2009 09:34:45 AM
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Posted - May 25 2009 : 11:33:37 AM
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I had never noticed the difference in the PT alco trucks.
Ray
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Posted - May 27 2009 : 10:18:30 PM
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| HEY AF-- Enjoyed this post by you-- Excellent observation. Tyco has many variations and differences as many of us know--but some new members may not be aware of. Hopefully this will help them see the differences out there. Several others of us including me have posted variations on other Tyco. If you are new and reading this--take time to look through topics as any questions you may have might be answered already
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Posted - May 28 2009 : 01:06:33 AM
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I noticed the difference when I was finding replacements for an old MU-2 C-430. They were the most realistic.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 01 2009 : 6:15:58 PM
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Since this initial post here I have added a Gen II CN Mantua Tyco C430 Alco to the collection and I am awaiting an ICG C430 that is MU2 powered, light colored rather than typical dark Mantua Tyco tank weight and has the closed rear number boards, PT Alco style. I do have already an ICG mint shell and have seen at auction but not won a complete example of the ICG as above.
BTW Brianstyco,
Thanks and good points made above!
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on September 02 2009 10:05:08 PM
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Posted - September 01 2009 : 7:55:48 PM
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Hey Alco Fan I just got one of those Old Dutch Cleanser cars last weekend  NKP759 Thats a near loco but What are the "windows" on the side? & That's a odd place for the bell 
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Posted - September 01 2009 : 8:11:37 PM
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Mbusss,
Congrats on the Old Dutch Cleanser Car.
I think the "windows" you're talking about on the side behind the cab are the Air filter system. The Tyco C430s have a big box type deal there.
The bell is probably what that RR wanted or liked. It's really big too.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 01 2009 : 9:27:24 PM
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quote:| NKP759 Thats a near loco but What are the "windows" on the side? & That's a odd place for the bell Originally posted by microbusss-September 01 2009: 7:55:48 PM
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Yeah, plus that light bulb must really burn the engineer's head.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 02 2009 : 6:02:22 PM
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My newest engine came today. It is a MU2 powered C430 Alco in ICG colors with closed rear numberboards and other features typical of the Gen II locos except the power. It's in very nice to like new condition but minus the handrails.
I don't know what to call this because it is not the typical red box Alco it is a Gen I.2. and from '74 or so.
I am having trouble with my pictures and can't yet post the pic I just took.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 02 2009 : 6:42:43 PM
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Hey AF, good topic and nice presentation. Nice catch on the sideframes; I'll have to compare mine sometime.
Your newly-acquired ICG sounds interesting. Illinois Central merged with Gulf Mobile & Ohio, to form Illinois Central Gulf in 1972 (IIRC on the date). The PT was not introduced until 1974-ish. So you can date this to 1972-1974.... but the filled rear numberboards are a trick. If that's a true MU-2 (and not a former PT that had an MU-2 installed) that would be something....
...considering the original So76 430's were released in 1974, with MU-2, and had open numberboards. But they transitioned to PT after a year or so. So the prospect of an MU-2 shell with filled boards is intriguing and mysterious...
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Posted - September 02 2009 : 8:48:34 PM
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GiC,
Good to have you here and thanks.
This is the second one I've bid on and the first I've won.
From your Alco study I think you state something about the slots that hold the trucks being on the walkway for MU2s while the PTs are a bit above and thicker. These slots are on the walkway and thin. It also has a screw in Mantua Tyco zamac colored tank as opposed to the dark metal tanks as in the Gen I MU2 powered Alcos.
No question, its legit.
The shell is the one I mentioned in the Alco shell, replacement shell post also here and it is identical to the powered example.
BTW: I need to check for sure but the pilot opening in the ICG is the standard size of the red box Alco Gen I pilot and not larger as the GenIIs.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on September 02 2009 10:10:21 PM
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Posted - October 31 2011 : 8:51:40 PM
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There is a Famous Movie star M&E C424! It had a Cameo/Bad Guy Role in Rescue 911! Look Up "Conrail Train" It ain`t Conrail, But whatever floats your boat.
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