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 Posted - March 16 2009 : 01:01:15 AM
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I've attended many local and regional Model and Model Railroading shows. The wife thinks I'm nuts and rolls her eyes whenever I *drag* her to one of these events.
I've never quite figured out why they're called shows. Most shows I've attended aren't really "shows" - no "How To" seminars or guest speakers or even fully operating layouts. Just table after table of Hobby Shop vendors selling everything from smashed up Tyco rolling stock that looks like they came out of a sandbox and still have cat doodie stuck to them ... to boxed Trix all-aluminum passenger sets that no one touches without wearing white gloves and a credit reference check. And aisle after aisle of people who haven't quite caught on to the fad of using deodorant and washing/combing their hair more than once a year. (I remember standing behind a greasy fellow waiting to pay for my purchase and wondering if HE had cat doodie stuck to him ...)
I thought that a national show like The Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour would be run a little different. They promised a stage for presenters, and movies, and layouts galore, and Thomas the Tank Engine, and major industry players there like Walthers and Bachmann and Lionel. I thought - now this was a show to see. And happily drug the wife off (rolling her eyes yet again) to see the train show of train shows.
After paying a good penny for parking in a normally "free" convention center parking lot that had potholes the size of small island nations ... I was a little taken back by a show ticket fee that was more than any Train Show ticket I'd ever paid for 2 people, much less just one ...
For being billed the largest train show of its kind in the nation, it really wasn't all that big. Barely matched the size of some of the local shows I attend on a regular basis. And it only filled a little more than a quarter of the convention hall floor.
However, crowded was an understatement. It was like an amusement park on a Saturday afternoon the first weekend school was out. I think sardines have more room in their cans than the show did in its aisles and booths. A sea of humanity. A sea of humanity having bad hair days and a desperate need to be doused with deodorant.
About all I saw were vendors identical to the hobby shops from my area I always see - but with higher than normal prices on items and somewhat unfriendly staff. They weren't there to answer any questions about anything - just sell, sell, sell. One older fellow standing next to me picked up a shrinked wrapped Walthers kit from a table to look at it better and the vendor came over and literally snatched it away and put the box back down. Said something for us to only look at the merchandise but not touch it unless you were going to buy it. Yeah ... I didn't buy anything there.
Most vendors just stared at you like you were going to shoplift them blind. If you stood too long looking at something, I even had one ask me to move on unless I was going to buy the item right then. And I particularly was wary of all the signs everywhere stating "All Sales Final" and "Sold As Is" or my favorite "Vendor Fuel Surcharge Added to Total." What???
The layouts were your standard large modular units that, although huge, were definitely showing their age and in need of scenery repair. Some of the layouts weren't running due to technical problems. A couple looked like my cat had run across them knocking everything down.
And all the screaming, kicking, crying, undisciplined children running wild. They didn't care about trains. They didn't care about their parents forcing them to get a picture with Thomas the Tank Engine (which is just about out of vogue now). They were just throwing tantrums because mom or dad or grandpa wouldn't buy them a snocone.
The movie and stage were just a rerun of a special I saw on the History Channel about the influence Trains had on Walt Disney. Walthers was hawking their catalogs and I did get a free paper engineer's hat from them. Lionel had an awesome booth - but too crowded to get into to see. And the Bachmann booth was basically just another sales booth.
But despite all of this, being a little disappointed, I did locate a long out of production kit for my layout and a couple vintage cars I knew I wouldn't even find on eBay. Eventually all the layouts were functioning - you couldn't get up to see them close because of the crowds surrounding them- but they were running.
Well, I can say that I went to Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour. Probably won't go again and just stick with my local shows - which draw a lot of people, but the show participants seem friendlier. Vendors who treat the hobby more as a hobby than a do or die business transaction. I really think Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour should change their name slightly to the Worlds Greatest Hobby *Sales Floor* on Tour. Because that's what it really was, just a big 2 day sale of almost blatantly overpriced train merchandise.
I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
Edited by - HOScale Model Railroader on March 16 2009 01:14:44 AM
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 Posted - March 16 2009 : 10:26:23 AM
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| I take it this was the big show in Cleveland? Interesting write up, I feel if I went I'd be having the same thoughts, if some of the people ever left their layouts long enough to shower lol. My rivet counter friend went and loved it, go figure. Personally I'm more interested in going to a small local show and picking some stuff up for cheap.
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Posted - March 16 2009 : 11:13:23 AM
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After the years of hobby shops and train shows I have met some unfriendly/unclean people....but geez. Nothing as bad as what you described
quote:"Vendor Fuel Surcharge Added to Total." What???
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Ahaha I LOLed when I read that. It seems more like something you'd expect to see on ebay
-cheez
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Posted - March 16 2009 : 12:08:35 PM
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Very well written. I can relate to almost everything you said although in my case, I've just learned it comes with the territory for better or worse. And it doesn't matter what hobby you're into: be it computer shows, gun shows, car parts shows, etc... even generic flea markets, fairs, carnivals, etc... the "unwashed masses" generally have a way of coming out of the woodwork for those, it seems.
My experience at the WGH show in Louisville last year was similar, but for a different reason. It was held in the beginning of July - and the HVAC system in the convention center failed! They didn't get it working till 1 or so but by then, everyone was just miserable.
It was a real shame too becuase the national N-track convention was that same weekend in the same space, and they had something like an 80+ scale mile layout set up. It took and hour and a half to buzz around it... and it was torture in the heat with cranky kids and patrons and such. Ugh. The quality was hit and miss... for every "OMG!" module there was at least 1 (if not 2) bare boards... still impressive to see a layout of that size!
I thought the Tier 1 vendor booths were very well done, though. Polite, lots of new stuff to see, free catalogs and raffles, lots of awesome trade-show quality displays.
There weren't too many of the "flea market / usual train show" vendors though. But your description of them mirrors some of the ones I've seen at shows all over the country: GATS in Louiville and Cinci; the Timonium show; the "World's Largest" in Chicago; NMRA shows... again, even comparing to other hobbies, there's always that shady, stinky element. I just pass them by and move on since the vast majority of people I've dealt with are pleasant and professional.
Usually your show trolls are the ones who are just looking to get every last dollar they can, and have no real interest in the hobby. There's a number of reasons why they may end up in this position. But the short of it is, I usually don't see them after a couple show cycles.
A lot of vendors run brick&mortar stores, and haul a big chunk of inventory in large trailers a great distance to a show. I'm sure fuel is not cheap and adds to their overhead. If the deals are otherwise great, I don't mind a reasonable charge. At least if posted, they are up front about it.
There was one Louisville GATs show, I think 2007, that was INSANE for stroller traffic though. Holy cow, I thought I would kill someone. The show traffic caught EVERYONE by surprise... you could barely move! Unsurprisingly, many of the frustrated crowd did not return the next year.
Really though... when it gets down to it, all the shows are the same. Like everything else in life you take the bad with the good and hopefully your own enjoyments makes it a net positive in the end. You never know what you'll find and that's half the fun. Fortunately for me my wife, and kids (so far) seem to enjoy it as much as I.
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Posted - March 16 2009 : 1:35:10 PM
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thats bad man!  I never get bad experiances at the Great Train Expo in Denver CO had a wonderful time there on Feb 21st 2009 bought 8 billboard cars one was the Wonder Woman car $10 which was abit pricey ok but another vendor was selling the same car for $20!  still need Capt Marvel & Superman  everything there was priced resonably I got there half hour b4 it opened that includes going back home cause my mom forgot her purse! I was 50 miles from home too
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Posted - March 16 2009 : 1:53:26 PM
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I'm was happy to see it came to my area - most stuff just passes on by for Chicago. I mean, I always see it advertised elsewhere and this time it was a stone's throw away. When everything got up and working, the layouts were interesting mainly because of their size and I respect the sweat put into getting the modular units assembled.
It was just that everyone seemed rushed and hurried and more than a tad bit grouchy. Even the layout operators didn't seem to be having a lot of fun. I mean, the premise of this entire hobby is to have some enjoyment and reduce stress from the 9 to 5 workday - not create and pile on more stress. :^) It felt like the event had less to do with promoting the actual hobby and more to do with promoting product sales.
I found it interesting that the show floor was organized in such a way that vendors selling products of specific gauges were located near the operating layouts of the same guage. An old marketing tactic - see it on the layout, buy it over here. The vendors probably paid a premium for those prime booths. :^) And those vendors were the most expensive.
I shouldn't be throwing stones, I know. Like the old saying goes: "if you think you can do better ... have at it bucko and put your money where your mouth is." I admit it, I can't. I'm horrible at organizing events. :^) Maybe it's just because I'm an old fuddy-duddy ... with the hobby becoming less a hobby (blue box kits for example) and more of an off-shelf commodity (Athearn Ready to Roll everything and Woodland Scenics buildups) ... some of the fun seems to be leaking away like Magic Water when you forget to seal *all* the banks of your stream you're modeling. You can go to the hobby shop, buy pre-made buildings and RTR rolling stock and even complete pre-formed layouts and have a really nice layout up in a few days with minimal effort. But what do you really have? Someone else's idea of what your layout should look like. There's not much of you in it - aside from maybe a couple drops of blood when you pinched a finger assembling the preformed benchwork. I liken it those people who go to car shows and show off and brag about their restored classic cars to everyone ... when they weren't the ones who did the actual restoration and simply bought it from someone else.
The show was an experience and without it, I'd still be searching for a few nostalgic items I had during my childhood that were trucked in by Hobby Shops many states away. But it really got me thinking (which is always a bad sign according to my wife) - has the slow (often tedious) enjoyment of putting some of ourselves and personalities into this hobby given way to the now more pervasive "I want it all, I want it all now, and I want someone else to do it for me" attitude?
Although I like my Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, etc. mass manufactured items. I also like taking an evening and fiddling with the assembly of old Athearn blue box kits too. No one else can tell between the Shell 3-Dome Tank Car Athearn made RTR or the identical one I assembled side by side - but I know and that's all that really matters I guess. It's kind of funny - for every car I have assembled and building I have kitbashed - I can remember exactly what was going on around me the day I was working on them even years later.
I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
Edited by - HOScale Model Railroader on March 16 2009 1:56:03 PM
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Posted - March 16 2009 : 2:50:30 PM
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Yeah, it is kinda funny. I mean, I have almost more freight cars than I could count, let alone a mere sensible number for the size of my layout. Yet I just enjoy building and collecting them. And even more so, there are indeed peripheral memories attached to them. I can recall where and when I got them, what else I was doing, who was with me, etc. Remember the same about circumstances of seeing the real ones that inspired me to find models, too. It's like these freight cars become random bookmarks in my life. Across the board. Never considered it more deeply, on some level I always thought I was the only one, and weird.
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Posted - March 17 2009 : 9:11:11 PM
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Thanks for the report. Sorry you had a dismal time. My brother and I go to 3 or 4 train shows a year, here in NC. There used to be a show; Great American Train Show (GATS) , we called it DATS: Decent American......
Last Saturday we went to a show (vendor meeting) in Greensboro. I bought a Mantua 0-4-0 w/tender for $10. He also had a nice looking Mantua 4-6-2 w/tender for $18. Didn't get that because I am already working on one. Anyway, most that we go to are local sponsored. Some have clinics. The Neuse River Valley has a huge modular layout, plus several others. Mostly we have good experiences with the "shows". The vendors want to talk about their stuff and will let you handle them. Although, one time my brother was looking at a diesel loco and wanted to put a 9 volt battery to wheels. (An acceptable practice as far as my knowledge goes) the guy grabbed it from his hand and said "they all run"!! A bunch of that stuff is way overpriced, seems most vendors will haggle on a price. Some won't. And I have seen the same guy , bring the same stuff year after year.
By the way, your wife goes! What a sport! My wife wouldn't go at gunpoint.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - March 17 2009 : 10:20:40 PM
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ye-ap! we go as a family. The girls and I have little things we're on the look out for (not typicaly thomas either) and then wonder around the layouts.
Oddly enough we gave our eldest $5.00 to spend and she wouldn't even do the train ride as she wanted something else. She came home with a chessie hat.
And though sometimes GIC doesn't believe me (and the girls) we do have a good time. There are always things we find to do, even if it's just people watching. LOL Trains are a great family activity.
~anna
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ptgolf
Little Six
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Posted - March 18 2009 : 5:21:37 PM
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| Everyone forgot to mention the group of 4-5 people that like to stop and talk in the middle of the isle and not let anyone pass by them. How about the people that bump into you and never say excuse me. A lot of vendors in the Northest shows seem to be almost socially retarted and just sit behind their table and never make eye contact with anyone. I used to go to a lot of shows but getting tired of seeing the same people with the same stuff at the same prices, sometimes you wonder if they are actually there to sell anything?
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Posted - March 27 2009 : 01:49:10 AM
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quote:
ptgolf: Everyone forgot to mention the group of 4-5 people that like to stop and talk in the middle of the isle and not let anyone pass by them. How about the people that bump into you and never say excuse me.
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Yeah - unlike our local shows and regional NMRA show ... the WGH show seemed to attract a more rude crowd and parents who have no concept of disciplining their children. (I'm not of the "It takes a Village to Raise a Child" crowd. I figure ... your kid, your responsibility.) I can understand why most groups shy away from displaying their modular layouts at these size shows when you have kids crawling under the layout benchwork and picking up scenery while their parents just stand there and think it's cute.
I like caffeine and a chainsaw ...
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ABE
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Posted - March 27 2009 : 9:04:02 PM
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Hi Guys,
Your comments on train shows or " Meets'' have made me stop & think back to all the train meets I have attended since early 1970's & I remember the 1st meet being at Hamburg, Pa which at that time was not as big as the meets of today, less tables & less spectors or buyers, the one thing I remember is that on many a table sat a box that said " Pay here" what was happening at some tables was that the table holder was off visiting or out scaning the rest of the meet to see if there was anything he wanted or needed & if you as a buyer had any interest in any item on the table you paid it by putting money in box & there was always change in the box, sems funny that went intodays world but it did back than for many, of course things were much , much cheaper back than, Lionel O-Gauge commom cars were from $2.00 to $5.00 each, HO cars were 25 cents to maybe a buck, Passenger cars were $2.00 -$3.00 each, Tyco Mikados were $5.00 to $10.00, the meets back than were usually attended by the same crowd & most people knew each other just as a "Train Guy", of course things changed over the yrs as meets got bigger with more dealers or table holders & now the " train guys" were called " the crowd" as more & more people became interested in trains & also were finding out about these " train Meets" or as some called them " a Model Train Flea Market", here in the East coast we are blessed with quite a few meets being held & if one wants to travel to Pa, Nj, NY, Maryland, Delaware,New Eng states I believe you might be able to hit a meet each week end & if not for sure a few each month, I have learned that the small meets & to me a small meet is one held in a fire house or a meet with maybe 50 to 100 tables & usually not advertised heavely so it usually draws a smaller crowd & here is where I seem to find the " deals" because most of ther table holders are not a Dealer & just want o sell or clean out & in qall honestly not all that versed in the value of what they are selling & of course you find deals , the Hamburg show is a inbetween meet where you have dealers & some peooe who just want to sell, Allentown ahow is a 500 plus table show & usually has a waiting list for tables & table holders here are dealers & serious small collectors who might set up at a few shows a yr & th ecrowd at Allentown attracts Collectors & familys & the pruices are usuallu pretty good & not much different than prices at the small shows, York, Pa holds 2 meets a yr which is the big TCA meet for memebers only & of course do not attract the " Family Crowd" some familys attend of course but only if a member or I should say a Tag holder as there are guards at each & every door cjecking your Badge or Tag, than we have the Greenburg, Great American or what ever & Timinioum , Maryland shows that do attract both the yr araound collector & the family crowd & what happens at these type shows is the price is way higher to get in & also the prices on items on 95 % of the tables are now higher , Why ? because I think the dealers know that the Family crowd usually just hit these big shows & are not aware of deals or lower prices at the smalller shows & can raise prices & sell, I usually stay away from the Big shows all because of the dealers there & the Crowds, its usually a push & shove match in some asiles all because we have a jam up with people stopping to talk & of course they are the only People at the show now so the rest wait until they are ready to move on, kids running up & down the asiles & beware if you have a plastic piece in your bag because there is a good chance of it getting smashed, bumped or jammed because " we cant wait" , & why some dealers have a attitude is beyond me but they do & they are at every show including some at Allentown, York, Hamburg & a few at some small shows, I have learned to stay away from them as there are many good & pleasent dealers & people at every show, in going to many of th eshows I have met many very nice people & made friends with many including some very well informed Tyco Collectors & I look forward to seeing them at the meets, matter of fact I met Anatol,( Ibuytyco) at Hamburg yrs ago & we became good friends where we at times set up together at York & end up with a fun time, Tyco Johnny is another Tyco friend & both therse guys have a massive Tyco collection but are very well versed in the Tyco History, I know many of you do not have the meets to attend as we do here in the NE & in the mid west even less yet & have no other choice but to attend the big meets,........... rememebr, People are People no matter what part of the country you live or I should say what Country you live in & Tony L is right when he says wether its a gun show, computer show or evan a grocery store at times, we are living in a diffrent world today than we did back in the 50's , the 60's & 70's & its not going to get any better,
this is juist my 2 cents worth of Meets,
Abe
Abe Schwartz
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