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 Posted - November 12 2006 : 8:25:38 PM
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I have a Tyco Burlington Northern Diesel from the BN set, it is new in the box, has maybe been run once since it was new in the early 80's, when I power it up the light comes on and you can hear the motor turning, it has a strong sound, but no motion...probably going to need more than oil, although I know it's going to need oil...any idea as to what may fix it? Is it dead? Not the end of the world, I will probably pick up another one on ebay just to have another working loco, I would like to run this one because it's basically new, thanks for the help.
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Posted - November 12 2006 : 8:33:59 PM
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| It is a GP-20 (#228-17) loco if that helps any...thanks.
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Posted - November 13 2006 : 01:31:32 AM
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Sounds like the small gear on the armature has slid on the shaft or come off.
If this is the case it can be repaired if the gear didn't get lost.
Ray
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Posted - November 13 2006 : 7:37:27 PM
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| Sounds like a gear is etiher stripped or out of place, the light comes on, the motor runs steady and will increase/decrease speed when power is adjusted, the external gears all work (I can turn both sets of front wheels when i turn the plastic wheel on the underside), whatever connects the motor to the large plastic gear is missing, stripped or out of place...wonder how I am going to get to it???? There is one shiny metal screw on the left side that looks like it will release the front set of wheels, I may try to go in that way...Hopefully the armature gear is still in there somewhere...
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Posted - November 13 2006 : 8:32:23 PM
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There should be a small, silver, metal gear on a shaft connected to the large plastic gear. Is it there? If it is, then try taking the engine off the track and applying power to it. There may be a magnet or springs that have worn out over time while it was in the box.
-cheez
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 11:24:17 AM
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| ok, removed the lower front wheels/gears and found the small metal gear that spins the large plastic gear, sure enough, it was out of place so i moved it back in place, but it is still lose and it still wants to slip, I did get the loco to move around the track, but it was very jerky, still sounds like the engine is putting out power that is not making it to the wheels, there must be something on the other end of the small shaft (the one with the small metal gear on the outside) that is not catching, not sure just how I'm going to get in there...there are a few GP 20's on ebay, I am going to pick one up and make this one my pet project, any idea how I could get to the other end of that small shaft? How am I going to get that small metal gear to stay in place? Thanks...
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 6:09:59 PM
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If it's a problem with the little gear and shaft, any powertorque should work to fix it. If the gear is slipping off the shaft as it runs, put a drop of super glue on the end of the shaft to attach it to the gear. I too have a powertorque thats sounds like its putting out more power than the engine is using. I think its just what happens as a powertorque gets old. It shouldn't affect the engine except for its speed. If the engine hasn't been run for a while then it may get better over time.
-cheez
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 6:34:36 PM
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| if i know what your talking about, i soldered it back on, it provided a bit of a flywheel effect
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 6:57:52 PM
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| Soldering? I never thought about that. If you do that though, make sure not to melt the teeth, otherwise the gear will not bite into the plastic gear.
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 7:39:29 PM
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| super glue should hold it, this loco has not been broken in, I can't get the gear to stay in place long enough to run it for the suggested break in time, also, I don't think it's ever been lubed, I have the TYCO instructions/Warranty/Power Torque paperwork with the oil and lube suggestions, is 3 in 1 really the best way to go? Maybe with a lube job and some break in it will run, I would hate to think that it is dead out of the box, I bid $30 on another BN GP20 on ebay today and I didn't win it...would like to get this one going, thanks!
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 Posted - November 14 2006 : 7:55:55 PM
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| i've learnt that once a tyco PT stops running it stays that way[xx(] [xx(] [xx(] [xx(] [XX(]
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 7:56:20 PM
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If its just out of the box it is not dead. Once you glue on the gear and lube the motor it should be fine.
-cheez
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Posted - November 16 2006 : 10:25:00 AM
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| I think I am going to have to solder the metal gear on to the shaft, I used super glue, it dried, then I was able to run it around the track for a few minutes before it slipped, the shaft is not catching the inner part of the gear, the metal gear is staying close enough to the plastic gear to run, but it is not engaged...or maybe I could try a different type of glue?
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Posted - November 16 2006 : 12:07:58 PM
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Wow, I must have just hit the luck of the draw when that worked on one of mine way back. Although I didn't run it a whole lot either...
I'm not sure what the best way to get a tight press-fit on those would be. I'm envisioning small bits of epoxy putty or dried hot glue. It will be a delicate operation. I wish I had a reason to try myself to nail a method down, but all my PT's are running well enough for the moment.
I think your best bet will be to find another scrap PT, either in a cheap-per-unit ebay lot or a train show. Or find a mantua drive and scrap the PTs altogether...
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Posted - November 16 2006 : 5:56:48 PM
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One my PT, if I run it for a few minutes I have to leave it at that speed. If I slow it down the gears stop meshing. If I leave for a little while, then start it up again, I can run it at low speeds no problem. Does yours do this?
-cheez
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Posted - November 16 2006 : 6:25:26 PM
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How about trying to swedge? the gear shaft.
Remove the gear and take a pair of side cutters and gently squeeze them lengthwise on the shaft .
It kinda makes the gearshaft a little wider and then you can put the gear back on and it won't slip.
Hope this helps.
Carl T.
President of the Cape James Terminal RR.
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Posted - November 20 2006 : 6:07:46 PM
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| I screwed up, I won another GP 20 on ebay listed as a TYCO, it's actually an old Mantua, and does not have a power torque, and as luck would have it, it doesn't work...and I can't even use the parts...I now have 4 locos, none of them working, going to try a 2 part epoxy for metal on my other GP shaft to get it going, I have picked up another TYCO on ebay listed as "Excellent Running Condition...tested...etc" so we'll see if it works...by now I could have ran down to Hobby Lobby and picked up a new HO scale loco for around $30...I still may do that just to have one working...I am going to start playing with the mantua tonight, it looks/sounds like it's pretty far gone, it's not even the green BN GP 20, it's the Red/Silver...not even sure where the oil goes in this one...ok...off to try the 2 part epoxy...or I may try to swedge the shaft on the newer GP 20.
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Posted - November 21 2006 : 7:34:30 PM
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So the new engine you got off ebay isnt a powertorque correct? Does the light work? If it hasn't been run for a while then try turning the power on and flipping the direction switch on your transformer back and forth. This sometimes works. Also, the Mantua motors don't break as easily as Powertorques. It may just need some wires souldered or a cleaning.
-cheez
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Posted - November 21 2006 : 10:20:44 PM
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The "Swedge" idea has merit, I think. I was also thinking about a 2-part epoxy, but oy, what a mess!
If the mantua drive won't run, you can try a few things. Start with Cheez' suggestions, then:
1) Make sure the brass wheels are clean. This is difficult becuase you can;t really turn them, but scrape off whatever obviousl crud you can.
2) Check the wiring inside. I've found a couple where the solder connections simply broke.
3) Apply power directly to the motor to see if it wil run. Actually, maybe do this before #1 and 2 to save time.
Unfortunately, that's about all you can do without drilling the reivts out and ebarking on the disassembly journey. Even I have been loathe to go there...
But I've had two "dead" mantuas that I slowly coaxed back to life... and even though they're not 100%, they easily outperform most of my PTs. A NIB mantua drive is awesome!
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Posted - November 25 2006 : 10:43:58 PM
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| I'll check the wire work on the Mantua, if not I'll gut it and make a dummy out of it, it is cool looking loco for the yard, all of my stuff in BN or SF, so I could still use both of these, I also have a mantua "comin' around the mountain" loco that works fine, it's just really noisy, the BN Mantua arrived a bit roughed up, the rear wheel assembly w/ the metal plate on the top was just hangin' by wires...it may work...it's definately not a power torque...I am currently running a bachmann GP 20 SF in war bonnet, looks and runs great, the power torque BN was part of a huge lot I won on ebay...I am going to keep trying to get it going...it appears that the gear is securely on the shaft, I still hear the motor turning, no motion...and there's plenty of power...maybe this one sat for too long...I'm going to take a better look at the mantua guts when i get home
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Posted - November 26 2006 : 08:40:21 AM
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I agree about the MUs, early Mantua motors. You can coax them to run. I bought an F-9 at a swap meet for parts to tear it apart just to see how it worked. I cleaned it a little and it took off and lighted. It actually runs well.
You can use alcohol and a swab to rub the dirt off the part of the metal wheels that you can see on the power truck. If its not a wiring problem then you might get some movement out of the loco enough to clean the rest of the wheels. The back wheels spin freely so you can clean all of them.
Check to see that the brass wheels are on opposite sides of the loco. I have put PTs back together and had the truck reversed with the brass wheels on the same side. Someone with little experience may have put it back together wrong
Caution. To oil slightly look at the 3 holes on the power truck. I think the one toward the front of the truck has the worm gear. I think you can see the gear under good light and you can put a needle oiler tip in and place a drop on the worm. Be careful with this. On second thought the humps that stick down on the power truck contain the gear attached to the drive axle, you can easily put oil there.
Someone mentioned using a product called Atlas Conducta Lube in an earlier posting this year. I haven't tried it but it's supposed to work. I'm going to see if Radio Shack has some.
Good luck
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on November 26 2006 8:24:36 PM
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Posted - November 26 2006 : 12:33:03 PM
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Jlong has a post on the Conducta Lube on the second page of the Tyco Motive Power section.
Carl T.
President of the Cape James Terminal RR.
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Posted - November 27 2006 : 5:44:50 PM
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| ok, so I'm going to apply power directly to the mantua motor to check on it...looks like the shell is on there pretty good, is there a trick to getting it off? Maybe a flat head screwdriver on the side of the wheel assembly...just pop it right off? I don't want to break the Manutua, even if it won't run it'll look great in the yard...I have a ton of BN cars, that's why I wish my PT would work. I picked up a bachmann GP 20 at hobby lobby for cheap (40% off), it runs great, quiet and smooth, one problem, the couplers are different and I can't run any of my "cool cars" with it, I have enough newer bachmann cars to run, but I would rather use my older BN or SF Tyco cars...I have a non running bachmann engine from when I was a kid, it has the right kind of coupler on it, may try to swap them out...anyone tried to retrofit couplers? it looks like it'll work...
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Posted - November 27 2006 : 6:33:50 PM
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| FYI...If anyone is interested there is a coupon on the hobby lobby website for 40% off any regular priced item in the store, click on "coupons and specials" on the front page and it should come up, print it out and take it in, it's an internet only coupon...I used it last week at our local store, didn't have any problems.
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