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Posted - April 14 2008 : 9:39:12 PM
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After seeing Ray M's PC Alco with a new replacement motor I had to try it for myself. It took 2 evenings to get it into the test mule but it works. The first evening I ground the block with a Dremel tool to clear the CD player motor. Tonight I got the fit better, drilled out a pinion gear and I mounted it in the power truck. Wired it together and it ran on the first try. Nothing to look at I just wanted to show it. Thanks Ray for sharing your inspiration.
The motor is from a personal CD player that had other problems.



Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on April 14 2008 10:49:39 PM
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 9:45:55 PM
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Hey AF:
Whats the motor, and more picky's please!?
-Gareth
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 9:55:54 PM
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Nice job. I plan to do a few more once I get the current project off the workbench. (a Bachmann 4-8-4 with a Bowser frame kit)
Ray
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 11:04:58 PM
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Hey AF:
Can't read the small print on the motor. Does it say what the VDC and Mamps are? Any other details. Btw; is this the main steeper motor for spinning the CD and have you run it for any extended period.
Thanks for the pics!
-Gareth
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 06:36:41 AM
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I think the writing in the motor is just a serial number. I think it said 4.5 volts on the player's body. I just finished it last evening so I don't know how durable it is. It runs smoothly and started running as soon as power was applied. I used this shell because it was partially ready to go and I didn't have to tear another one apart.
Alco Fan
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Roy
Little Six
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 07:57:43 AM
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Man, that's neat! [:0]
Are those pinion teeth hanging on to just that washer-shaped extension?
Edited by - Roy on April 15 2008 08:00:26 AM
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 2:00:13 PM
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Nice job, AF! I've been thinking about doing the same for my Chattanooga, but a few issues have stopped me, mainly concerning being able to drill out the pinion on center (I don't have a lathe), and the strength of the pinion teeth after it's been bored out for a 2mm shaft. I'd rather use my brass pinion for this, but I don't want to ruin it.
How smoothly does it run? Is it faster or slower than the original?
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 6:53:46 PM
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NP759, Roy and RC, The pinion gear was drilled using a handheld electric drill. I held it with needle nosed pliers carefully and tried not to touch the teeth. It was placed on the shaft and nudged into position. Nothing else was added to the gear. It's only been together since last eve. I ran it pulling 8-10 cars tonight after work and I'd say it will start a little earlier on the throttle than a PT and has a similar whine probably due to the gears. I haven't oiled it so that might help. I may have the clearance between the gears a little close too. Rays machined block looks a lot neater to me. Thanks for the questions.
Alco Fan
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 7:06:58 PM
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AF, you'll probably have to play around to find the optimal gear mesh. If they're overmeshed, then the noise may improve once it's adjusted, but a motor-driven pinion is always going to be noisier than a worm arrangement, unless it's machined to high tolerances.
It should have better low speed control, and power as well. Of course you can't put too much load on that pinion no matter how good the motor.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on April 15 2008 7:08:44 PM
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 7:47:56 PM
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I had it crawling for a while, but it's only been together for less than 24hrs. I'd like to really test it soon. Thanks.
Alco Fan
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 8:24:13 PM
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It took 2 mins and 8 secs to go around the outer loop on my 4x8 at about 15% throttle pulling 9 cars. I think that's pretty much crawling.
Alco Fan
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 9:32:50 PM
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quote:It took 2 mins and 8 secs to go around the outer loop on my 4x8 at about 15% throttle pulling 9 cars. I think that's pretty much crawling.
Originally posted by Alco Fan - April 15 2008 : 8:24:13 PM
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That's pretty good.
Ray
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 9:49:27 PM
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That's really cool work. I definitely need to try this. It's nice to know the block can be functionally reamed out with a Dremel since I don't have anything fancier than that. Thanks for sharing this.
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 3:48:50 PM
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You've sold me. I think I'm going to take the plunge on my Chattanooga - fortunately, I have a spare block to play with.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 7:59:28 PM
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YAY I got a motor! I knew there was a reason I stayed in I.T. Hopefully I'll have some time to futz with it this week. Looking forward to joining the FrankenTorque Crew.
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 9:06:24 PM
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Keep your eyes peeled for a Mabuchi RF-300EH-1D90. I have three of them, and they seem to have a reasonable speed range. I've found others that are way too fast, and one that burned up very quickly on 12 volts.
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 9:55:48 PM
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AF - what is the depth of the motor you are using, and how much clearance does it have in the truck cradle?
The one I have is the same diameter as yours, but might be a little thicker... and definitely won't fit in the ring cradle. Well it fits, but forget about turning... [V]
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 10:25:49 PM
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Here's what I have so far:


I'm guessing that IS a Mabuchi motor in the same series that NKP recommended... but not quite the same model. It is a little large.
It was the tray motor from an LG (OEM supplier) brand CD drive, circa 2000.
has good response and power range when hooked to test leads. I drilled out the stock PT bearing and it's a good fit... aside from the depth issue.
One thing's for sure... I'm not a fan of Dremel-based machining on parts that small! One slip away from losing a finger, and that PT block heats up quick!
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 10:28:27 PM
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I'd estimate without checking that maybe it's as thick as 5-6 stacked quarters. How about 11mm, if I measured correctly, not a quarter in the house.. Mine was so thick I turned down the edges of the middle axle/gear, the side seen in the first pic, enough so that it wouldn't rub against the side of the motor can. I wore a garden type glove on my right hand to hold the block and noticed no heat. I would use my fingers to hold the block and apply pressure near the chuck at times with my thumb to get a better bite. Also wore goggles. Your job looks really good. My PT bearing popped out during grind mode and I could not locate it. It looks like your motor is another 1/4-1/3 bigger. I ran mine for a good 30-40 minutes tonight, no problems.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on April 16 2008 10:57:41 PM
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 10:49:28 PM
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Yeah, mine is a hair over 7 quarters thick, exactly, and that's not counting the prongs. I'm definitely going to need to find a lower-profile motor.
It did, however, just clear the idler axle by a hair! No chance of putting a true center (6 wheel truck) axle in there though.
Bah. So close... [:(!]
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on April 16 2008 10:50:52 PM
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Posted - April 16 2008 : 11:47:39 PM
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GIC,
If your willing to part with a couple of those old Tyco trailers for my piggy flat, I have a couple motors that might work well for you. Both are listed at 5.9 volt and measure 24mm wide and 13mm deep. The depth measurement is from the front edge of the bearing to the rear edge of the case. Motors are JXD RF-300F-12350 and JXD RF-300CH-11440. I do not recognize the "JXD" but both appear to be the same design as AF is using.
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 12:34:41 AM
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Tell you what, next time I get over to the haunt, there should be a set of salvageable trailers I'll just pick up and send you. As for the motors, I'll get back to you on that. There's an essentially unlimited supply of donor drives where I work, I just took the path of least resistance to the one I tried. The rest will require some of my patented ninja skills. Or some fast talking and a hammer [;)]
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 01:16:55 AM
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All righty then! Let me know what you find. And I suggest the hammer. Force is always faster then stealth!!
By the way, these motors do not have the contack tabs sticking out the rear of the motor. They actually have a pair of wires exiting the side of the motor casing. Should make mounting a little less space restricted. I would post a photo for everyone, but my wife won't let me use her camera without her "assistence"!
Edited by - Hypoponera on April 17 2008 01:23:36 AM
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 05:42:33 AM
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Those thicker motors work in the tender drives but do cause problems with the diesel mounts. One of the 3V motors I found was alot thinner and would give clearance for the wheels on the middle axle. I may try one once I figure out a better voltage reduction circuit. This is the tender drive I put together today. 

Ray
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 1:16:35 PM
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I hadn't thought about the bolster clearance issue, since I'm only working on a tender drive. All of the tray motors I have are the same dimensions as Ray's and GIC's, but I haven't come across the thinner style that AF is using, and I have about 6 of them.
Here is a link to Mabuchi's motor identifier, which breaks down the code by explaining what each character represents.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/technic/t_0302.html
So the RF-300EH-1D390 (just discovered I left a digit out of it the first time I posted) I mentioned translates as:
R = Round housing F = Precious metal brushes
3 = Armature diameter 0 = Magnet size/housing length 0 = 3 poles E = Rubber magnet H = Special identifier, N/A
1D = .1mm armature wire dia. 390 = 390 turns of wire around each pole
The first motor Hypop listed ended in 12350, indicating it has .12mm wire dia., with 350 turns, indicating it runs at a lower voltage because the wire is thicker and shorter and has a lower resistance. The second on his list is probably best, since it has .11 dia. wire with 440 turns, so it should have a higher voltage range.
Here's a list of their different models:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/p_0304.html
This data sheet has the specs for for my 1D390:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rf_300ea
And this sheet lists the specs for the models Hypop has (one is off by a 20 turns of wire, but it's close enough):
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rf_300fa
These models are available with wires or lugs depending on the customers needs. I also have two similar motors by Panasonic.
Nice job, Ray. A milling machine makes a difference.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 8:15:08 PM
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Great info!! Thanks for the links! Do you know if Mabuchi sells small numbers of motors? I contacted Canon and unfortunately, the smallest size order they accept is 120,000 units. Alas, I don't think I will ever remotor that many locos!!
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 9:39:43 PM
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I wonder if one of these will drop right in without any modification. http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16260 I think this is the specs for it. http://www.faulhaber-group.com/uploadpk/e_0030S_FTB.pdf
Ray
Edited by - Ray Marinaccio on April 17 2008 9:55:42 PM
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 9:52:54 PM
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No, I think motor manufacturers like Mabuchi, Johnson, etc. only sell motors in bulk to manufacturers. Check electronics surplus places like All Electronics and Jameco for suitable motors. The motor Ray pointed out a while ago at All Elec. has a thinner profile that might make it more appropriate for diesel PT's.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-269/400/1.5_-_6_VDC_MOTOR_.html
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 9:59:54 PM
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That's a weird little bugger, Ray. Is the case plastic? I wonder how much torque it has.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - April 17 2008 : 10:06:16 PM
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Has anyone tried the motor that ray mentioned before and NP refers to?
Ray I thought you had? Or am I "mis-remembering"? Gee I sound like a famous pitcher testifying to Congress!!![:D] [:D] [:D]
-Gareth
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 12:09:42 AM
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IT'S ALIVE!!!!!
It's been more work than I anticipated, doing my first bit of machining. I had a disaster when TWO of the gear studs broke off my meticulously hand-machined block! I was able to glue one back on with CA (and it holds!). The other was the stud for the reduction gear. It is 1/16 dia. , so I drilled it out, cut some stock off the back of a warped 1/16 drill bit, and CA'd that into the hole. I reamed out my gears ever so slightly with a needle file, and everything spins VERY freely and works out without a problem.
To solve the diesel bolster issue, I counter-sunk the back of the PT bearing to account for the depth of the can motor's thrust bearing, netting myself an extra mm of clearance. I also modified the bolster. I now have full swivel capability across 100% of the range.
Hooked it up to test leads, and it RUNS! And it even has a bit of flywheel action (reamed gears for the win)!!
No pics just yet. Will post more tomorrow. I have to go terrorize the better half with my creation. MWUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 12:21:00 AM
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GIC:
You remind me just a little of that Robot in Futurama! [:D] [:D] [:D]
-Gareth
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 12:50:51 AM
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GIC is really Bender? [:0] 
I thought there would be some flywheel effect. These motors spin very freely.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 01:03:15 AM
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Yeah noticed a bit of flywheel effect as well. Ray had suggested gluing a washer or two onthe reduction gear for more of that.
-Gareth
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 04:59:19 AM
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quote:Ray I thought you had? Or am I "mis-remembering"? Gee I sound like a famous pitcher testifying to Congress!!![:D] [:D] [:D]
-Gareth
Originally posted by romcat - April 17 2008 : 10:06:16 PM
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I have used ones with the same ratings and dimentions. The output shaft on those are smaller than what we are all dealing with now.
I got the rest of the locomotive together today and gave it a test run. It too still has the Tyco gear whine but runs strong. I pulled the track cleaning car around the layout (something a lot of other locos won't do) for about 15 minutes. If it was going to break, it would have by now.
Ray
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 11:17:27 AM
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this totally redefines the terms "the little engine that could".
pretty neat to see that thing run last night!
~anna -----------------------------------
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 2:09:42 PM
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Those can motors do have a lot of spin action in them, but I've encountered a lot of PTs with heavy drag on the gear spindles. Enlarging the holes a *tad* helps quite a bit even on otherwise stock models.
I might consider some of the motors from Ray's link, I do like the low-profile aspect and the output shaft definitely could stand to be smaller. There is NO margin for error with the larger 3/32 shafts AlcoFan and I used; I'm amazed the pinion stayed intact at all. But it did press-fit on there without issue and torques up just fine.
Of course, mine is running, but I've not installed it into an engine or put a train load on it yet. I was more excited about the proof-of-concept. It could all yet explode in a glorious ball of fire tonight!
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on March 18 2009 12:11:15 PM
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 4:30:08 PM
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GIC:
As long as your PT's Shiny!!! [:D] [:D] [:D]
....and let the GLORIOUS explosions begin!
-Gareth
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Posted - April 18 2008 : 7:45:43 PM
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I've been following the TERP projects here on the forum and find everyones work and idea's very interesting. It inspired me to look into the same type of replacement motor. Today I received the motor from All Electronics NP listed a link to, Cat # DCM269, http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-269/search/1.5_-_6_VDC_MOTOR_.html[/url] The length of the shaft on this motor is very small, 0.1". I thought this was going to be to small but bought one none the less. The diameter of this motor requires very little machining of the PT block. The problem is that the motor shaft does come through the PT block. I suppose another way to make this motor work would be to "thin" the wall of the PT motor where the shaft goes through the bearing. I'm planning to work on this to see if there is a way to make this motor work. I'll be on the road for work for the next few weeks and will hopefully get a chance to work on this after all the traveling. I also checked the Jameco site, searched for rf-300, came back with one hit, might be some thing to check out. Tom
Edited by - eaglerock109 on April 18 2008 7:46:44 PM
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 03:51:08 AM
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SUCCESS!!!
Frankfort, KY April 18, 2008
At 8:23 pm EDT, a new breed of locomotive rolled out of the Saint Canard Midland’s West Frankfort Shops. At first seeming as little more than a Rock Island Alco C430, astute railfans quickly noticed the retrofitting of a larger fuel tank, salvaged from a derelict C-630 that had been on STC property for 17 years. This small modification had big effects on the appearance, but was just a harbinger of things to come. Indeed, railfans were treated to a show like no other once the crew opened the throttle and revealed the true significance of the Rock Island #4301 that had been basking on the downtown main!

In their most ambitious rebuild project since the RockShark rebuild in the summer of 2006, STC crews once again chucked the original Moorestown / Hong Kong “PT” prime mover. But this time, instead of simply mounting the locomotive body on a new frame with a proven powerplant, the STC embarked on its first homegrown motive power development program, dubbed “FT-CD137”.
Using plans found on a key industry trade website and evaluated with discussion from other model CEOs, the STC retrofitted the balky Tyco-PT prime mover with new mechanicals sourced from a CD-ROM drive.

STC CEO Tony Lucio explained, “It was so amazingly simple I was amazed that I hadn’t thought of it myself. If you only knew the number of CD drives I’ve killed over the years; we could have had a fleet of these things! Well actually the thought had crossed my mind once but then laziness won and I didn’t do it anyway. Oh wait, don’t print that last part.”
Mr. Lucio then went on to clarify, “We called it ‘FrankenTorque’, with the 'CD137' referring to the source and size of the motor, 13.7 mm. Motor clearance is an issue in roadswitcher locomotives like the Alco 430. But even after Juggernauting 6 different CD-Rom drives at the office, the only thing that turned up were various 13.75 mm motors. So we decided to pursue a different route and make those work somehow. Really, the PT-upfit project has been refined by other crews more skilled than I, but we had to try it anyway.
“The physical retrofitting of the CD motor into the gutted Tyco block was straightforward enough, though I almost had to make use of our medical plan. Fortunately the only casualties were to the motor block itself, but they were easily resolved. I’ll share this bit of advice: keep fat fingers away from the gear studs as much as possible. Oh, and making a jig for bearing countersinking really IS a great idea… but only if you measure twice, drill once!

“At any rate, we test-fired the new drive on Thursday and it ran great, we didn’t even trip a breaker fuse this time. Unfortunately we then had to address the clearance issue, because the new drive would not turn in its bolster mount. And as you know, the STC has quite a few curves in its track plan. Which is why they won’t let me have a leadfoot throttle.
"We solved the swivel clearance by modifying one side of the bolster – which is a fancy way of saying we cut off everything but the support mount. It’s a little fragile this way but it still does its job, and the drive had full action in the bolster.

"Unfortunately, the locomotive body itself became an issue with clearance, and we had to file the inside of the conductor’s battery box area. I imagine this will be a deal-breaker for other lines that roster Tyco motive power, but fortunately my OCD tendencies meant I had a loco to sacrifice for the cause. In the end, you can't tell anthing from the outside, but it is an exra step.
"In hindsight, I should have let Laziness win again and just installed the blasted thing in an F-unit or another Shark..."
However, for the throngs of LBPs occupying the downtown area this evening (including the most dedicated roofing crew this side of the Great Pyramids), the eventual completion of "FTCD" Rock Island 4301 was worth it. The locomotive started slow with a steady whine, creeping slower than any Tyco 430 ever had. Prime Minister of Operations Bethany Lucio would have none of this however, commanding "Faster!" in short order.
Crews obliged, hauling a modern NMRA-wieght consist of 14 mixed cars around the "hot lap" in 7 seconds! When one car derailed, bystanders marveled that no more derailed during the panic stop, thanks to the inherent slack flywheel action of the improved drive.
What does the future hold for FTCD RI4301? Mr. Lucio demurred a bit, then stated "Well obviously I am pleased with our efforts; as a unique-one off prototype drive and first machining effort, you couldn't ask for more. The performance is excellent! However the limited clearance and modifications to the loco shell are a problem, so I believe a new motor will need to be found. But I would like to get some video posted and let other Mechanical Departments judge the merit for themselves."
One thing is for certain: Whenever you see a Tyco Rock Island unit on the STC, it's sure sign that somebody's been breaking things in the backshop - and loving every minute of it.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on April 20 2008 3:42:05 PM
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 11:29:58 AM
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Tony, I hope the people in charge of the STC give the crew at the backshop a bonus for their work on this project. The extended tank is a nice design touch that only designer Ray Lowey would have thought of. Fun to see. Looking foward to the vid. Ray, Is the PC loco with the can motor the first? If it is I'd like permission to call mine, whatever shell it ends up in, SRII. Sting "Ray" II.
Bob/ Alco Fan
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on April 19 2008 11:33:28 AM
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 11:47:49 AM
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Bender, um I mean GIC:
Not sure which I enjoyed more, the mechanical work or the narrative? [:D]
-Gareth
Edited by - romcat on April 19 2008 12:44:18 PM
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 6:59:05 PM
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Nice story and photos Tony.[^]
quote:Tony, Ray, Is the PC loco with the can motor the first? If it is I'd like permission to call mine, whatever shell it ends up in, SRII. Sting "Ray" II.
Bob/ Alco Fan
Originally posted by Alco Fan - April 19 2008 : 11:29:58 AM
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The power truck I put in the PC C430 is the first one I built. I don't have a problem with the name, go for it.[:D]
Ray
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 7:05:01 PM
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quote:I've been following the TERP projects here on the forum and find everyones work and idea's very interesting. It inspired me to look into the same type of replacement motor. Today I received the motor from All Electronics NP listed a link to, Cat # DCM269, http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-269/search/1.5_-_6_VDC_MOTOR_.html[/url] The length of the shaft on this motor is very small, 0.1". I thought this was going to be to small but bought one none the less. The diameter of this motor requires very little machining of the PT block. The problem is that the motor shaft does come through the PT block. I suppose another way to make this motor work would be to "thin" the wall of the PT motor where the shaft goes through the bearing. I'm planning to work on this to see if there is a way to make this motor work. I'll be on the road for work for the next few weeks and will hopefully get a chance to work on this after all the traveling. I also checked the Jameco site, searched for rf-300, came back with one hit, might be some thing to check out. Tom
Originally posted by eaglerock109 - April 18 2008 : 7:45:43 PM
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Let us know how it works out. I thought that the short shaft could be dealt with by making an extention shaft but thinning the wall of the block will work.
Ray
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 9:15:16 PM
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GIC, when can we start sending our rosters into your shop for retrofit?
[:D]
Mike
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Posted - April 19 2008 : 9:23:55 PM
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it was a fun sight to see it shoot around the layout like a bullet.... Yes, our little Belle, the speed demon, never getting faster enough.
~anna -----------------------------------
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Posted - April 20 2008 : 3:41:18 PM
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Honestly I don't know why I went overboard with the narrative. I'm an idiot, what can I say. At least I'm glad if people found it enjoyable :)
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Posted - April 20 2008 : 3:59:59 PM
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Enjoy it! Hell's Bells boy, that was more fun than the Sunday morning Baseball news AND WAY MORE THAN THE PA PRIMARY NEWS!!!
Seriously, great fun!
Hope you enjoy the youtube videos I replied with? Should be right up your alley. Penn in the second video. Those bridges look familiar, bet Ray knows!
-Gareth
Edited by - romcat on April 20 2008 4:09:27 PM
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Posted - March 26 2009 : 4:07:44 PM
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As an update I have converted 4 to date, burned up 2. I still have one and another is at a secret test location in the south. I managed to find a slim motor and it cleared the middle axle on a 630 but burned up quicky. I put resistors in the last 2. It seems to slow them down.
Alco Fan
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Posted - February 13 2010 : 8:29:41 PM
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Hey NP:
Can you define "overmeshed" as you use it here?
quote:AF, you'll probably have to play around to find the optimal gear mesh. If they're overmeshed, then the noise may improve once it's adjusted, but a motor-driven pinion is always going to be noisier than a worm arrangement, unless it's machined to high tolerances.
It should have better low speed control, and power as well. Of course you can't put too much load on that pinion no matter how good the motor.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759-April 15 2008: 7:06:58 PM
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Also about putting "too much load on that pinion...? are you referring to the twisting force of the armature?
Thanks, Gareth
"A is A" -Aristotle Law of Identification
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Posted - February 13 2010 : 9:27:33 PM
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Hi Gareth,
Overmeshing is when the gears are too close together, so that the teeth bottom out and grind against each other. Undermesh is when the gears are too far apart, and only the tips of the teeth are engaging, possibly skipping. It's important to find a good compromise, especially if you don't get the pinion drilled out dead-center. The first gen brass one I drilled out for my Chattanooga conversion ended up a little off, so I mounted the motor with screws, because I wanted to be able to play with the position of the motor/pinion.
Also about putting "too much load on that pinion...? are you referring to the twisting force of the armature?
Yeah, I was referring to the amount of load on the pinion while the loco is running, because those pinions are white metal and the teeth do wear, and I was concerned about drilling out such a weak gear. The pinion wore out on my original Chattanooga many years ago, but I had added extra weight to the tender and was pulling trains that were far too long. It will should hold up under normal conditions. They also tend to slip on the original motor shaft, but with a larger 2mm shaft there's more surface area to grip and for the CA to stick to.
The Tyco Depot
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