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4Iucky
Switcher
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 Posted - March 20 2008 : 8:08:44 PM
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Hello everyone,
I just recently bought a Tyco Chessie system NO. 261-03, brand new out of the box off of Ebay. The problem is I was breaking it in and had to run outside and didnt monitor it for about 15 minutes and to my horror it was stopped, the power still on but not going anywhere. I took it off the tracks and let it cool cause the motor was real hot. Anyways after i let it cool i tried to get it to run but it wouldnt move, I even hooked it directly to the transformer but nothing. So i proceeded to take apart the engine, and i got it all cleaned and what have you. I can get the motor to run without any of the gears hooked up but once i put the gears on it wont run its like it doesnt have enough power to move them. Any ideas or am i just out of luck? Furthermore is there any way to repair a motor or someone i can take it to to fix it if thats the problem please let me know.
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 01:20:48 AM
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I assume this is a PT truck. Have you taken the motor itself apart and cleaned the commutator and brushes? If there's oil on them, they can create a lot of drag. Have you removed the gears to make sure that there isn't any hair binding them up? (New in box on eBay is a relative term.) Have you cleaned off any old thickened grease, and lightly lubricated the bearings?
If none of these fixes solves the problem, then it's possible that the excessive heat weakened the magnets.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 01:37:39 AM
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About the magnets, as I remember my material sciences theory specifically metals I recollect that a metal will loose it's magnetic properties as it gets hotter and I think moves up into the martensitic range. However once cooled down through that temperature band the magnetism returns.
The metal charactedristics elsewise may change depenging on how (speed mostly depending on the soaking medium; air, water, brine water, oil...etc.) any cooling takes place leading to tempering or annealing.
Was the motor too hot to touch? For how long? Did it smell like tsome of the insulation on any wiring was burned.
Have you tried another power pack? Possible while the original is till "funtional" it may be not working properly. These are not great motors and one of the kindest things you can do for them is get a good transistorized power-pack.
-Gareth
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4Iucky
Switcher
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 02:32:43 AM
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| Yeah its a PT truck, and it got real hot so hot that it hurt to touch and it also had a hot smell to it. The wierd thing is that i let it cool down and it still runs, but it wont turn the gears, if i take all the gears off it works but only if there are no gears attached to the motor. Is there a good place to buy replacement motors even if they werent made for tyco trains, something thats not to overpriced as I didnt pay a whole lot for them. Thanks for the answers btw.
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 02:52:30 AM
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Extreme overheating will sometimes cause the brush springs to loose their tention.
Ray
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 03:04:11 AM
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Whadda ya think Ray?
Plastic gesrs affected by the heat?
Weird one...
-Gareth
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 10:29:14 AM
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If a magnet gets hot enough, it will lose its magnetism permanently:
http://www.physlink.com/Education/askexperts/ae472.cfm
That being said, the springs, brushes, and condition of the commutator should be checked before looking for a replacement. Since the motor was too hot to touch, loss of magnetism is the most likely cause at this point.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 11:54:12 AM
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Hey NP:
I realize now what I was thinking was that a metal looses it's magnetic property when it is heated to a certain point but only in that range and reaquires it when it cools, rather than magnets themselves.
Thanks for straightening me out.
-Gareth
Edited by - romcat on March 21 2008 12:13:11 PM
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 12:47:03 PM
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Gareth,
Here's a blurb from a Faq on rare-earth-magnets.com:
Will my magnets demagnetize if I heat them?
Yes, if you heat them beyond 170 degrees Fahrenheit (80 degrees Celsius) the magnets will quickly loose their magnetic properties. Sustaining these temperatures for a length of time or heating the magnet significantly higher than this will permanently demagnetize it. Other types of magnets such as Samarium-Cobalt have higher heat resistance. There are also other types of Nd-Fe-B magnets that are not as susceptible to heat induced flux degradation.
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnet_university/magnets_FAQ.htm
I wonder what the Curie temperature is for ceramic magnets. It's probably not too high. I was given a bunch of dead Athearn BB locos that were run at a local exhibit that suffered from overheating, sometimes enough to melt the shells, but most of them had no visible heat damage.
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Roy
Little Six
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 5:25:35 PM
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First, I'd check the brush springs and commutator by carefully pressing down each brush against the commutator, while under power. If the motor speeds up, the springs have lost tension.
As for permanent magnets, it is atomic alignment that gives them their magnetic field. Even if they are completely demagnetized(such as by shock, or heat), their fields can be restored by placing in a strong magnetic field. Repair shops often have good sized electromagnets for this purpose.
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Posted - March 21 2008 : 10:29:56 PM
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| Roy, I don't have the numbers memorized, but is this a Super 630? If all else fails, give me a holler. I have a truly new-in-box ICG 630--runs like a charm---only mistake I made was to try to remove the power truck to oil it, and slightly cracked the cab from the window down. It's not too noticeable, but can never be sold as NIB now. But the innards are perfect, and still has handrails in the bag. I still like it, so I couldn't give it away, but let me know how things go. Chris
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Roy
Little Six
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Posted - March 23 2008 : 01:10:57 AM
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quote:| Roy, I don't have the numbers memorized, but is this a Super 630?... Originally posted by Adams
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Chris,
I don't know Tyco numbers, either. My previous answer was based on general train repair experience, and engineering classes.
Glad to see your extras are selling well! I may break down, and buy something myself!
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Posted - March 28 2008 : 8:16:42 PM
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The 261-03 was a Chessie F7 with matching caboose in the same box. [;)]
Here's a thought: Are all the posts for the gears absolutely clean? Do the gears turn freely by themselves (you may have to test one at a time)?
Also, with no load, a PT will actually spin at a fairly impressive RPM at full voltage. Almost like a slot car. You should get a very high-pitched whine.
I posted a question a while back about old / aged grease turning to "peanut butter" and when this happens, those gears won't turn very well. You need to make sure there is no residue at all.
Also, some of those gears can be a tight fit, and not spin very freely even with no gunk in the way. If that is the case, ream the holes out to be *ever so slightly* larger - enough so they will turn freely, but not wobble. A needle file is best for this but you can use the tip of an x-acto blade.
In all likelihood the armature is indeed fried from overheating... but I've resurrected a few weak PTs by cleaning out gunk and working on the gears alone. Good luck!
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