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 Posted - October 07 2006 : 8:56:11 PM
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Just found the coolest thing on ebay. Its a Tyco turbo train (same type as the twin turbos) but this one is painted yellow and black instead of red and silver/black and silver. The guy says he bought it from some employee and it was never released. The starting bid is $99. Seems a bit high to me but this is a pretty cool item.
Opinions???
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jlong
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Posted - October 07 2006 : 11:06:06 PM
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quote:| The guy says he bought it from some employee and it was never released. The starting bid is $99. |
I clicked search to find it and came up with regular stuff. .............You say employee. As in Tyco employee? A cancelled production sample? I would be careful as repaints are often catered this way on ebay. With Lionel, it's obnoxious on ebay. Rarities like that are the kind of thing you want to see in person. Or know the ebay dealer and know a production sample like that truely exists.
But then, a well done custom painted set hyped as a phoney origional would be worth $100 to me because it costs that to custom paint it. If it truely is a cancelled production run, you could be talking $500 to $1,000 maybe. Something seems fishy.
John Long
Edited by - jlong on October 07 2006 11:32:45 PM
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Posted - October 08 2006 : 10:36:42 AM
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In the description it says he recently purchased it from a former Aurora employee. I don't know what aurora is though. It didn't say cancelled production sample. It said prototype.
When you said it came up with regular stuff, do you mean that you didn't find it?? I just typed in "tyco turbo train". I tried it again just now and its still there.
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 Posted - October 08 2006 : 11:45:10 AM
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| if i was bidding on this would ask for closeups and underside views ken
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jlong
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Posted - October 08 2006 : 12:09:44 PM
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OK, sorry. I broadened my search and found it. He is a slot car dealer and has a buy it now price of $200.
Aurora had little or no association with Tyco except employees leaving one company for another or selling tooling for discontinued items to each other maybe. Aurora was a manufacturer of slot cars but did make some model train items. Most notebly Postage Stamp N scale.
Prototypes are one of a kind engineering samples whether they be mock ups or new paint schemes on existing stock. Prototypes are studied by marketing and cost estimators before going into production. In most cases they don't go into production and end up in the company archives or hands of pilfering employees. The item you are looking at is likely being pawned off as a paint sample prototype.
Production samples are a trial production run of maybe a dozen to see how everything turns out before releasing to full production. Sometimes those runs get cancelled entirely. Production samples are not worth as much as prototypes because more of them exist.
Because I am new to Tyco, it's hard for me to know what Tyco prototypes are worth. I know Lionel and Lionel prototypes can fetch several thousand dollars. Several phoney Lionel protoypes have shown up on ebay. The typical seller gives the usual story that he purchased it from a former Lionel employee. Often times these auctions get shut down as the heads of the Train Collectors association and current Lionel managers inform ebay the item is fake.
I'm not saying the guy is a fraud. I'm just saying what is going on here is typical of scam autions. To say he bought it from a former Aroura employee really gives me a rat smell as his story is similar to what you hear from quack Lionel sellers. His seller rating doesn't mean squat to me. These dealers typically wash their hands in the case of phoneys by saying, "I was told this by the guy I bought it from and stated it clearly in my auction". He is legally correct. His $200 price puts him in the misdemeneor, not felony category in the eyes of the train gods should the item turn out to be fake.
I would not touch this with a ten foot pole unless the paint job alone was worth $200 to me whether it be legitimate or not. For what I've seen Lionel prototypes go for, his price seems incredibly cheap. So cheap a good part of me thinks it's a repaint. I could be wrong. Tyco prototypes may not command mega bucks at this time. The collecting circle is too small.
John Long
Edited by - jlong on October 08 2006 12:22:00 PM
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Posted - October 08 2006 : 12:21:57 PM
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| Well, whether it is a fake or not, whoever painted it seems to have done a fairly nice job. And like you said before, the custom paint would probably be worth that anyways. If this is an original though, I can see why Tyco didn't make it for their sets. If you look at the picture closely, it looks as though you can see the powered chasis right through the paint. I guess thats why both of Tycos twin turbo trains were darker colours.
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jlong
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Posted - October 08 2006 : 12:58:16 PM
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Well if it does turn out to be a prototype, I would hesitate to run it for it will increase in value drastically as the number of Tyco collectors increases.
Authenticating engineering paint sample prototypes is not easy. It's easy for a scammer to mock what the Tyco engineering department did. Take existing stock and repaint it. With Lionel, the item is often sent to a chemical lab for a breakdown of the paint chemicals. By knowing this, you can tell approximately what years the paint was sold as EPA regulations have changed paint chemical requirements over the years.
John Long
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Posted - October 09 2006 : 06:46:18 AM
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| hi received email from seller of this item,who says its definatly tyco,if this helps ken
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Posted - October 09 2006 : 11:27:33 AM
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| Well just from looking at the picture, its easy to see that it is definitely Tyco. The big question is whether or not the paint is original.
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Posted - October 09 2006 : 11:34:05 AM
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that he did not say,i am like you in mind,buyer beware,everything is not always what it says,putting the third person in picture ie the aurora person is like saying well he told me it was a prototype if you get my drift,i thought if i asked him being in uk he might open up more as we are so far apart,did ask for better photos and closeups none,ken
Edited by - catfordken on October 09 2006 11:40:37 AM
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jlong
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Posted - October 09 2006 : 8:03:24 PM
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quote:| Well just from looking at the picture, its easy to see that it is definitely Tyco. The big question is whether or not the paint is original. |
Don't be afraid to email him and ask the seller's name. The tone of his response alone may give you some clues about his story.
John Long
Edited by - jlong on October 09 2006 8:05:07 PM
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Posted - October 10 2006 : 08:15:43 AM
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Hi Guys. I asked him the question about the color.
He said that the Yellow was molded in the plastic not, painted. And that it was slightly see-tru.
Interesting item but, not to die for. There is much more interesting items out there to spend your money on.
Numquam Immoderatio Satis Est
(Too Much Is Never Enough )
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Posted - October 10 2006 : 7:54:47 PM
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| Does anyone know how much that thing ended up goin for??
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Posted - October 10 2006 : 8:05:53 PM
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came off unsold ken
Edited by - catfordken on October 10 2006 8:08:25 PM
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Posted - October 10 2006 : 8:34:44 PM
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| I'm not surprised. Even if this is a rare, never released Tyco piece, most ppl won't pay that much money for something as small as that and being sold by someone who isn't a big Tyco collector.
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