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jlong
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 Posted - September 26 2006 : 01:35:37 AM
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The train Gods dropped a T348A (red box) piggyback set on my porch today. To clear my mind that a brown box flat was not swapped along the way, maybe someone can answer this.
What year did Tyco quit making the truck/coupler assy with metal coupler shanks? The coupler assy's are all plastic on this car. The car in the TYCO Resource site appears to have all plastic truck assy's. The bottom of the car is stamped "Mantua" and there are no "Hong Kong" stamps. Nor are there on the vans. Are there any other ways of telling if this is a red box era car?
I have no intentions of shipping it back. I just want to know if it's comletely origional or not for the sake of knowing.
John Long
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Posted - September 26 2006 : 10:00:36 AM
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John:
Sounds original. The 348A in the transitional red box set 6881 I bought as new old stock was equipped with all nylon trucks. The transitional red box (what your piggyback set is in) cars generally have trucks as described. I've seen one of the 50 ft. plug door Sante Fe cars riding on the earlier style trucks, and more than a few of my 334A Pulpwood cars (same base tooling for many of the flats) ride on either/or truck style. The piggyback set's cousin: the weird stand-alone piggyback car (no ramp) (its hard to determine tha actual car number as it is uncatalogued and in unnumbered or, in this case, hand-scrawled boxes) also has the non-metal trucks. That unpopular car is in a standard 10-inch red window box with an insert holding the piggyback car and two trailers flanking a tractor cab. It was part of a short-lived effort to sell the action cars without the ramps and electric dump and unloading facilities: my log-dump car-only box is scrawled "6912-3". These were inserted in some of the 1969 6912 Railroad empire sets and an attempt was supposedly made to sell the as separates but most operators just purchased the sets with the ramps and unloaders.
I'm curious to know: does your set have red-on-silver or red-on-white Sante Fe trailers?
MagAc
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jlong
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Posted - September 26 2006 : 9:55:55 PM
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MagAC,
Thanks! Since it's reported as being cataloged in 69, I figured it's a transitional era car. The trailers are red on silver. The set also includes the loose brakewheel. Also have a boxed seperate sale truck and trailer on the way. (I plan a busy terminal scene - Santa-Fe All the Way).
Funny you mention the SF 50 ft plug door. The SF El Capitain car is another childhood sweetheart (next to the CBQ box throwing car).
John Long
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Posted - September 26 2006 : 11:18:20 PM
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John:
With the silver trailers your set sounds like the first incarnation of the piggyback depot set. Some loose sets turn up but it is a bit of an oddity and was quickly superseded by the multitude of sets with the added insert for the semi-tractor. Don't quite know why Tyco didn't supply a semi cab right off the bat with this set but they corrected for its absence quickly. The ubiquitous white Sante Fe trailers also rather quickly supersede the silver ones, which seem to last one year or so. The Alco Action Freight and Penneys Exclusive Action freight both featured the silver trailers; the Penneys set coming with four of them.
I've always liked that cheesy semi cab; guess its supposed to be a Dodge.
Magnolia Academy
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jlong
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Posted - September 27 2006 : 12:16:02 AM
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The cheezy semi cab is definately dodge with some toolmaker artist liscence. It's rather funky looking really and has a lot of character.
John Long
Edited by - jlong on September 27 2006 12:17:16 AM
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Posted - September 27 2006 : 10:10:12 AM
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348As and Co.
Another anomaly with the Sante Fe trailers is herald placement. Take any half-dozen examples and I'd bet you'd find inconsistencies.
Some right-facing trailers have the herald on the trailer head-end, others near the door. While the herald position will be opposed on each particular trailer (alternately placed right-side and left-side, there isn't any consistency from trailer to trailer).
Oh, well. If consistency is your cup of tea there's always Union Pacific or Burlington Northern for your TOFCEE service, eh?
Magnolia Academy
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jlong
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Posted - September 28 2006 : 9:20:15 PM
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quote:Oh, well. If consistency is your cup of tea there's always Union Pacific or Burlington Northern for your TOFCEE service, eh?
Magnolia Academy
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I've been eyeing BN TOFCEE cars. Tyco's interpretion of UP doesn't do it for me however. But you never know.
John Long
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Posted - September 29 2006 : 09:55:51 AM
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Well, it aint the red-letter on silver "Trailer Freight Service" cars I remember, either. But that decision to use the splash of UP yellow is so toy-like it appeals to me--they seem rather like American Flyer's ridiculously overblown decoration on its self-advertising trailer freight cars--VERY TOY TRAIN!
Heck, just mix-em all together and throw a few SeaLand, Bekins and True Value Tyco trailers in for good measure! Let the Cox Trainscape equipment at your harbor facility separate the proverbial wheat from the pelletized plastic shaft, as their HO loads get emptied and containered for export.
Oh wait, that's right, we don't export anything from this country anymore so its just incoming and offloading...WHAT WAS I THINKING?
MagAc
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 02:07:41 AM
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Was the True Value set a common-stock release, or part of a set? I would like to find those, as I have a near-comeplete set of all the Tyco trailers offered.
I didn't know about the silver Santa Fe's though, so I will have to get them. The Bubble Yum and Tropicanas are also missing, but I don't really "count" those... yet...
I have more of the UP trailers than I care to, myself. The BNs were my favorite. Boy, Tyco sure loved the BN.
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 09:36:35 AM
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GoingInCirclz:
Since it sounds as though you have the scarce Bekins trailers, my friend, half your difficult battle is done, as it pertains to getting your hands on the scarce ones. Neither the Bekins nor True Value are common stock releases, I believe. But I've never heard anything about the circumstances of their release either. The nature of the venue suggests the hardware store trailers were concieved as either a set component or, perhaps, an exclusive for that store chain. (Knowledgeable old Tyco hands feel free to help out here.)
Good luck hunting the silver SF trailers. They are far-less common than their white brethren but they have a tendency to "come in bunches." As I stated in the earlier mail the big Penneys Alco Action Freight set (sold in large numbers) came with four silver trailers to the set and the red-boxed trailer and car only sets are in silver, so it shouldn't be an insurmountable task.
Magnolia Academy
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 6:09:58 PM
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MagAc-
LOL The Bekins are on the way - found them boxed in a lot for $12. Got a communications mix-up with the seller otherwise they;d be here. I;d been after those for a LONG time.
And wouldn't you know it - just found a MIB set of silver ATSF piggybacks Buy-it-Now!
So that leaves Tropicana, TV and Bubble Yum...
The Tyco piggybacks have always ben a favorite of mine. I have two of the overhead loaders plus the powered one (sadly, none of these are on my layout as they didn't fit the theme in the space I have to work with). I also like how the Athearn shorties are virtually interchangeable. And that dodge tractor is a trip.
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 7:49:19 PM
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Hi Circlez. The True Value hardware Piggy Back has a Stock Number. #354C I have had a few of them in the box. Since it did not have a price on the box code it probably like MagAc said it is a special set item only.
On the Bubble Yum Trailer it was only available with the matching Red Tractor. There were no Piggyback Flatcar. You need to find two tractor trailer sets and then use the Santa Fe flatcar and make your own. The boxcar had a strange number along with the trailer set. I have to check to see if I still have the info.
The Tropicana piggyback was only available in a set it has number 354B. On the box flap it states "Container Flatcar Tropicana 354B"
Looks like you have your work cutout. but, they are out there. You may have to pay more than a few dollars.
The Bubble Yum set of boxcar & tractor trailer In Boxs. I sold a few years back for $100.00.
The True Value Piggyback In box I sold $50.00
Tropicana piggyback I haven't sold one yet.
I have one. Keeping it for now.
I have some Trains Shows I doing in the next few months, will be looking. [:D] Carl
Numquam Immoderatio Satis Est
(Too Much Is Never Enough )
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 8:13:44 PM
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Well, well, well...
Ask for information from an old Tyco hand and ye (we) shall receive...
NICE pix, V-HO. Thanks!
Magnolia Academy
The observation about the stock number for the TValue cars is a nice little bonus... mine, alas, were purchased loose.
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Posted - October 01 2006 : 10:29:49 PM
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Carl - Thanks for the info! Nice collection yer showin' off there [:D]
Also, thanks for clearing up the Bubble Yum thing. I might just sub the Livestock trailer for the second BY trailer... a not ready to break the bank for two of those just yet. But at least I know what to expect for the TV and Tropics...
I would like to finish this set eventually. Don't have any full runs and not too concerned for the others, , but the trucks are appealing.
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jlong
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Posted - October 02 2006 : 05:46:54 AM
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quote:GoingInCirclz:
Since it sounds as though you have the scarce Bekins trailers, my friend, half your difficult battle is done, as it pertains to getting your hands on the scarce ones. Neither the Bekins nor True Value are common stock releases, |
When I first started looking into Tyco, I decided to go after inexpensive desirable common stuff and stay away from the pricey rare stuff. It's only been a few weeks for me. It's funny however, how the rare and unusual items can suck you in once you jump on a collecting bandwagon. Had I known little or cared little about Tyco, the Bubble Yum and True Value TOFC car posted here by Goin would not of caught my attention. Now it's like "gee I gotta have one of those".
John Long
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Posted - October 02 2006 : 12:08:32 PM
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quote:| When I first started looking into Tyco, I decided to go after inexpensive desirable common stuff and stay away from the pricey rare stuff. It's only been a few weeks for me. It's funny however, how the rare and unusual items can suck you in once you jump on a collecting bandwagon. |
Yeah. Definitely wasn't what I intended either, but as I said my focus is on one class or car for the moment... but it's nice to know what (isn't) out there just in case you run across something unexpectedly.
Oh and isn't it great how there will be a drought of interesting things for months, then alluvasudden POW the floodgates open, bringing a deluge of rare/interesting/gotta-have-it stuff all at once, not even from the same people? ARRGH.
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Posted - October 03 2006 : 11:19:59 AM
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A 1925 spirit-fired Marklin "Lord Nelson" 4-6-0 is rare... all the brown box Tyco offerings are probably more appropriately categorized as "common, less common, seldom encountered..." or similar terminology. It sure as Billboard Coal is black aint no coioncidence that, following the sale of some "high dollar" brown box offering, six more NOS samples turn up...
MagAc
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Posted - October 03 2006 : 1:22:27 PM
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| a simple test is to list on ebay as rare and see what happens in the next day or 2 ken
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Posted - October 03 2006 : 3:42:30 PM
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The word "rare" holds little sway with me anymore as it pertains to online auctions. Just like the words "collectible" and "premium", it is overused to the point of uselessness.
The all-caps RARE!!!! is even worse.
Note that the two locos up for auction this week, which COULD be considered to merit a degree of arguable rarity, don't mention so anywhere in the listing. And they are fetching nice prices so far.
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Posted - October 03 2006 : 5:01:46 PM
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Tycoots:
I suppose more than a few are out there toiling away on the definitive Tyco checklist/price guide. When they contemplate a grading system I recommend a close look at the Athearn Plastic Checklist. I think their method of grading for availability makes pretty good sense. Tyco trains--aside from the use of the preface "OP" in the Athearn guide for out of production (since its all out of production)--are a reasonably close-fit in that they have a similar production run and were made in huge numbers.
Hence "rarity" becomes a matter of distinguishing between the "commonly encountered" or "easily obtained" and stuff you might see only ocassionally, or the few truly scarce items.
Of the entire mountain of Tyco/Mantua I've piled up the few items I consider really difficult to replace are pre-1952 (definitely any pre-WW11) and, ironically, there are very few collectors left who can appreciate--or even identify--the stuff. Hence the growing collectibility of readily available "brown box" and its few "relative" (very relative to the truly small pre-1959 production numbers) rarities.
MagnoliaAcademy
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Posted - October 05 2006 : 12:39:30 AM
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Well I am one step closer - I snagged a Tropicana set. Did pay more than a few dollars as you warned, but less than I expected, even MIB. Combined shipping makes it sweeter. Besides, with Intermountain and even Athearn RTR cars commonly pushing $30 and up, certain HTF Tycos might be worth the occasional premium. I bet there are more of those new Athearns made vs the Tycocana anyway.
I have a project in mind for this. Only the TrueValue and BubbleYums remain. Oh and one KW and two "Dodge" cabs, but those are easy. I have one livestock trailer too - need a second one o' dems (but one will balance out the second elusive BY).
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Posted - October 05 2006 : 10:19:41 AM
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Who'd have thunk lowly Tyco trailers could elicit such fond attention?
I've seen them run in groups at local train shows with good effect. Generally, however, they're run rather homogenously (bunches of BN, SF, UP, Sealand et. al.)
It would be more fun to run a train with all the discreet entries (as I've seen done to great effect with Athearn offerings.) That is colorful and impressive. I keep a "trailer train" composed of one of each respective Tyco piggyback car on display in the traincrypt. Young visitors like it quite well... which may be a sad testament on the degree to which tractor-trailers have displaced railroad trains in the public consciousness.
MagAc
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