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Author Previous Topic: Replacing Bachmann Drive Shaft? Topic Next Topic: Blaxland Ridge Repair Company  

BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  12:09:54 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
I just got an aristo craft 0-8-0 at a train show and it looks like it was modified. There is solder around the worm gear, the wiring situation is strange, and there was a plastic shim under the motor. My problem is that the worm gear will not engage properly with the drive gear. I'd like to see how the wiring, motor, and worm gear setup looks on another one of these. I know top train has three, so you would be a big help! There was also some foam wedged into the long screw that holds the magnet in the back of the motor. I'm thinking that maybe the motor was supposed to be isolated?? I'm so confused.

Have some pictures





The grey thing was the shim that was in between the motor and the frame

Please help! This thing looks awesome!
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Redneck Justin
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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  12:43:38 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Redneck Justin to Buddylist
No telling why it was shimmed. One wire runs from the motor to the tender off the insulated side of the motor or the pick up shoe on the engine.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  12:51:05 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
No telling why it was shimmed. One wire runs from the motor to the tender off the insulated side of the motor or the pick up shoe on the engine.

Originally posted by Redneck Justin - January 12 2020 :  12:43:38 PM



There were no wires even going to the tender on mine. Could I see a picture?
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oldtimer52
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0ldtime

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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  5:23:33 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add oldtimer52 to Buddylist
That piece of "foam" between the magnetic and the motor is a piece of felt that was
used to hold oil next to the rear armature bearing and shaft. Be careful if you try
to remove it.
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  5:42:51 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
That piece of "foam" between the magnetic and the motor is a piece of felt that was
used to hold oil next to the rear armature bearing and shaft. Be careful if you try
to remove it.

Originally posted by oldtimer52 - January 12 2020 :  5:23:33 PM



Not that foam. There was some foam wedged in the screw to the magnet.
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scsshaggy
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 Posted - January 12 2020 :  11:07:01 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
It could be that the plastic shim and the foam around the screw were an attempt to isolate the motor for DCC. Given that the gears don't line up, I'd say it was a failed attempt. If you're using ordinary DC controls, you might try assembling it without the plastic and foam and see if the gears line up. In all likelihood, that would supply electric to the right brush on the motor via the locomotive frame.

Note that the brush spring on the left side has an insulating sleeve between it and the brush. This isolates the brush. The brush arm has a bit of solder on it with bits of wire stuck in. The wire to the insulated side of the motor that Justin mentioned would attach to that solder.

Carpe Manana!
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  07:13:34 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
It could be that the plastic shim and the foam around the screw were an attempt to isolate the motor for DCC. Given that the gears don't line up, I'd say it was a failed attempt. If you're using ordinary DC controls, you might try assembling it without the plastic and foam and see if the gears line up. In all likelihood, that would supply electric to the right brush on the motor via the locomotive frame.

Note that the brush spring on the left side has an insulating sleeve between it and the brush. This isolates the brush. The brush arm has a bit of solder on it with bits of wire stuck in. The wire to the insulated side of the motor that Justin mentioned would attach to that solder.

Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 12 2020 :  11:07:01 PM



I have tried reassembling without the shims, foam, etc, and the gears still don't line up. That's exactly what I was thinking, somebody tried to isolate for DCC. I don't run DCC. I got it all wired back up perfectly, and it runs, but the motor just spins and scrapes the gear. This is why I wanted to see the inside of another one of these 0-8-0s, to see if the original gear is different. The solder around the gear leads me to believe it is. Thank you for your help!
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toptrain
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On Pingynp

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  07:13:56 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
Your motor windings are shiney and the varnish color is bright so you loco has not been used very much. If your motor sits on the frame, which is not deformed and the gears properly align, all parts are clean of old grease and dirt motor bearings and gears and other rubbing surfaces have new oil. All axles and frame recess they fit in are clean and oiled all should be alright. oil is applied to rod and screw surfaces, with body off turn the armature with your fingertips watch it move. With power on low raise power to wher it moves. The drive should turn freely and repeatedly. If at one point the gearing disengages that is where there is a low spot on the drive gear. This is a sign of loco being run with old grease caked up or no oil. The cure for worn gear is raising the motor ever so slightly with a shim, as was done. If this doesn't work you need new gears.

( a good test for a freely moving drive is with the motor removed, place it on the track and give it a push and see it roll with side rods spinning around and pistons going in and out shown a nice loose drive.)

frank

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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toptrain
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On Pingynp

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  07:25:54 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
quote:
quote:
No telling why it was shimmed. One wire runs from the motor to the tender off the insulated side of the motor or the pick up shoe on the engine.

Originally posted by Redneck Justin - January 12 2020 :  12:43:38 PM



There were no wires even going to the tender on mine. Could I see a picture?

Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3 - January 12 2020 :  12:51:05 PM



Aristo Craft locos do not use tender pickup. For the insulated side of the 4 drivers power is picked up using the wipers in your photo that is removed from frame. Justin was correct when telling you about the use of a pickup shoe. That would be the wire with its insulated mounting that picks up power from the insulated wheels on the locomotive, that you removed. It spans the four axles, picking up power from the first and fourth drivers.

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!

Edited by - toptrain on January 13 2020 07:39:33 AM
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  08:16:42 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
Your motor windings are shiney and the varnish color is bright so you loco has not been used very much. If your motor sits on the frame, which is not deformed and the gears properly align, all parts are clean of old grease and dirt motor bearings and gears and other rubbing surfaces have new oil. All axles and frame recess they fit in are clean and oiled all should be alright. oil is applied to rod and screw surfaces, with body off turn the armature with your fingertips watch it move. With power on low raise power to wher it moves. The drive should turn freely and repeatedly. If at one point the gearing disengages that is where there is a low spot on the drive gear. This is a sign of loco being run with old grease caked up or no oil. The cure for worn gear is raising the motor ever so slightly with a shim, as was done. If this doesn't work you need new gears.

<span id='hl' style='background-color: darkviolet'>( a good test for a freely moving drive is with the motor removed, place it on the track and give it a push and see it roll with side rods spinning around and pistons going in and out shown a nice loose drive.) [/hl]

I have cleaned, lubes, and tested this thing inside out. The chassis rolls smoothly and freely. The gears still do not engage. Could I see a picture of the inside of one of yours to see if my gear is different?

The frame and all parts are without zinc rot or warp, which I was lucky to find. The only thing I can conclude is that the worm was replaced.

frank

Originally posted by toptrain - January 13 2020 :  07:13:56 AM

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toptrain
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On Pingynp

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  09:38:42 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
Is it all back together? Does the motor turn with power on but not engage geared axle?
frank

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  11:09:14 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
Is it all back together? Does the motor turn with power on but not engage geared axle?
frank

Originally posted by toptrain - January 13 2020 :  09:38:42 AM



That's correct.
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toptrain
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On Pingynp

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  11:14:33 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist


Is this what you want.
frank

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  4:45:49 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:


Is this what you want.
frank

Originally posted by toptrain - January 13 2020 :  11:14:33 AM



That helps, my worm looks the same as yours. Could I also see a picture of how the motor sits on the frame on yours? Mine looks like this



Maybe there is a shim that was supposed to be there, maybe out of metal, because when I press my finger down on the worm gear it engages.
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toptrain
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On Pingynp

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 Posted - January 13 2020 :  8:20:04 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
Alex this line you wrote "Maybe there is a shim that was supposed to be there, maybe out of metal, because when I press my finger down on the worm gear it engages." says put back the shim maybe even a thicker one. also this is the same motor that all 4 of my o-8-o's have.



frank

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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BlaxlandAlex3
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Jupiterpfp2

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 Posted - January 25 2020 :  08:17:33 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add BlaxlandAlex3 to Buddylist
quote:
Alex this line you wrote "Maybe there is a shim that was supposed to be there, maybe out of metal, because when I press my finger down on the worm gear it engages." says put back the shim maybe even a thicker one. also this is the same motor that all 4 of my o-8-o's have.



frank

Originally posted by toptrain - January 13 2020 :  8:20:04 PM



My worm was messed with. The solder is the dead giveaway. Your 0-8-0's worm looks a bit farther up the shaft than mine, and without the solder. Therefore you do not require the shim to engage the worm and drive gear. I will have to find a something thicker than the current shim to put under there. Thank you! This helped a lot!
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