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 Posted - December 21 2015 : 9:28:15 PM
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After some issues I've been having repairing my Tyco Clementine, I've been considering converting her to loco drive using a spare can motor I have. The motor was bought brand new, hasn't really been touched, should be powerful.
However, I'm not sure what I'd have to do to make sure the loco was insulated properly. The metal chassis block seems to be involved in carrying the electricity picked up by the wheels, so I need to know what steps I'd have to take to make sure it didn't cause a shortout.
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Posted - December 22 2015 : 3:49:45 PM
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| You might be better off by upgrading to a better tender drive. The weight over the drive wheels makes a big difference in the locomotive's traction. There is little room for any weight in the boiler once all the needed drive-train is in place. To be proto like it is a great project though.
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Posted - December 22 2015 : 9:13:28 PM
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quote: There is little room for any weight in the boiler once all the needed drive-train is in place.
Originally posted by tkruger - December 22 2015 : 3:49:45 PM
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How exactly do you figure that, considering that even an 0-4-0 tank loco like the Docksider has room for not only a can motor but a hefty weight? It only takes one geared axle to drive a loco, and the drive-train would consist of the axle gear, the worm gear on the motor, and one or two gears between. All of that would be vertical, taking up no space forward of the motor. And that would take up only half the available space.
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Posted - December 23 2015 : 5:40:42 PM
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I'm working on a similar project. Using a gears and axle from a Mantua 0-4-0, 0-8-0 frame and the boiler weight from a 2-8-0 by Tyco. You'll need a way to pull, press and quarter the drivers.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 23 2015 : 6:20:04 PM
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Some people scribe a line across the wheel they're going to pull so that the line crosses the axle off-center. That way, if the scratch mark lines back up when put back together, the quartering is the same as it was before.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 01:57:24 AM
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I know how to get a worm gear lined up, as it happens - I bought a Docksider to use its chassis for a custom loco, and I had to swap out the very bulky can motor for a much more compact open frame motor because of how small the new body shell was. And I had the same thought about sticking the drive gear on the axle that cranked the smoke generator's bellows (Speaking of that generator, I was thinking of hacksawing the bellows portion off so that I could keep the front even if only for the weight).
I know that the right-side wheels as-is aren't set up to pick up anything, they lack the copper piece linking the metal part to the axle. But that's just it: they don't pick up anything - I would have to add contacts on the right-hand side of the frame, would I not? (To that end, I was thinking a sword-type contact strip - I can easily make such). So the question is, what would I need to do to insulate that side of the frame before doing that? Would covering it in a thin layer of insulating tape or aluminum or somesuch suffice?
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 09:38:00 AM
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I am sorry I tried to help you. you see I don't know what you know and you don't show anything in photos. It seems you know that the loco does pick up one side and rebuilding the tender replacing the floor will get you the other track power. I don't see a problem. you pickup your power from both tracks and the loco goes. If it is to light you add weight.
* Good luck with your project.
I removed the other post so it doesn't cause problems in your build.
frank
Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on December 24 2015 09:41:46 AM
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 2:48:41 PM
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quote:So the question is, what would I need to do to insulate that side of the frame before doing that? Would covering it in a thin layer of insulating tape or aluminum or somesuch suffice?
Originally posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman - December 24 2015 : 01:57:24 AM
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On the version I have (the 2-8-0), the frame is plastic, which is already and insulator. The left wheels have a connection from the tires to the axles, and there's a bronze contact picking up from the axles. You could mount pickup wipers to the right drivers' flanges right on the frame or cover plate with no need for insulation, but it would be easier to do as Toptrain says and use the tender to pick up from the other rail.
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 3:55:54 PM
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Hey shaggy. You know I have never seen a plastic frame Mantua/tyco Clemintine, Royal Blue, or Chattanooga drive frame. The 2-8-0 you speak of must be something different. Maybe IHC. The ones I mentioned are the cheep ones to get if you are rebuilding one for something else. Tyco/mantua made more than 100,000 of them. 5 to 10 dollars is a common price. The IHC 2-8-0 that seem to use the same boiler are different and cost to much.
toptrain
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 4:38:04 PM
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quote:Hey shaggy. You know I have never seen a plastic frame Mantua/tyco Clemintine, Royal Blue, or Chattanooga drive frame. The 2-8-0 you speak of must be something different.
Originally posted by toptrain - December 24 2015 : 3:55:54 PM
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My mistake. There is a metal frame sandwiched between a plastic cover plate and a plastic layer on top. The bronze thing I thought was some sort of pickup was just conducting current from the frame to some contacts for wiring to the tender and to the headlight.
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 7:51:57 PM
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quote:I am sorry I tried to help you. you see I don't know what you know and you don't show anything in photos. It seems you know that the loco does pick up one side and rebuilding the tender replacing the floor will get you the other track power. I don't see a problem. you pickup your power from both tracks and the loco goes. If it is to light you add weight.
* Good luck with your project.
I removed the other post so it doesn't cause problems in your build.
frank
Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by toptrain - December 24 2015 : 09:38:00 AM
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The problem is that I want to have the loco picking up both sides.
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Posted - December 24 2015 : 8:23:55 PM
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Good luck with your project. May it all come together as envisioned.
Frank
toptrain
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Posted - December 28 2015 : 11:49:12 PM
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ZSword:
There are multiple ways to arrange a power pickup from insulated drivers and none of them are too hard to add-on after the fact; when you are doing engineering though (which is what you are doing indeed) you want to solve the big inflexible problems first...so its best to first find a way to mount your motor to drive the axles, before worrying overmuch about power pickup.
After all you can have the best power pickup in the world but it wont do you a bit of good if youve got no motor.
The upgraded tender drive idea was done amazingly well by Darth Santa Fe on here, in this threadd:
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11842
Also in this thread you can see a simple way to mount a motor to the unpowered 2-8-0 chassis (used in another user's kitbash to make a 0-10-0).
Northwest Short Line has a lot of gearboxes you can use. One of these would be rather simple to mount to one of the 2-8-0 driver axles if you could get the drivers back in quarter.
In this case, you actually have another very good example to look at. The IHC 2-8-0 is in fact the Tyco loco, modified with a conventional frame and loco-mounted drive. If you could manage to find an IHC junker you might kitbash the remnants together.
Edited by - Autobus Prime on December 28 2015 11:52:57 PM
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 Posted - December 29 2015 : 1:12:48 PM
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 Did I ask for advice on gearing the loco? No, I did not. What I asked for advice on was insulating the right-hand side of the chassis block so that pickups wouldn't touch it and cause a short. So you were in fact completely and totally unhelpful.
Would the staff please lock or delete this thread? A. It looks like no-one is actually going to answer my question, and B. I'm probably not going to do it after all since I found a way to improve the Powertorque's performance.
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Posted - December 29 2015 : 1:44:29 PM
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LOL
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 29 2015 : 4:41:01 PM
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quote: Did I ask for advice on gearing the loco? No, I did not. What I asked for advice on was insulating the right-hand side of the chassis block so that pickups wouldn't touch it and cause a short. So you were in fact completely and totally unhelpful.
Would the staff please lock or delete this thread? A. It looks like no-one is actually going to answer my question, and B. I'm probably not going to do it after all since I found a way to improve the Powertorque's performance.
Originally posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman - December 29 2015 : 1:12:48 PM
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Solder your pickups to a piece of printed circuit board. Screw or glue the board to the frame and cut through the copper cladding if you have to eliminate conductivity to the mounting screws.
Or attach with nylon screws and nylon washers.
Or epoxy them directly to the frame.
Or glue a plastic rod into the frame and screw to that.
Or glue a plastic pad to the frame and attach to that.
Or use phosphor bronze wire contacting the wheel tops and mount them through a drilled screw, clamped by a nut. The screw can be nylon, or the bracket can be insulated somehow.
Take a look at plastic diesels and see how the mfrs. did it. You might even be able to salvage the pickups from there.
There are a thousand ways to do a job like this and you will find them all in time if you address the problem with patience, resourcefulness, and energy.
Edited by - Autobus Prime on December 29 2015 4:51:45 PM
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Posted - January 01 2016 : 5:19:20 PM
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Thank you, that was very helpful. I'm sorry for snapping at you. Some of those I can't work because I don't have money to buy the supplies for them, but others (namely gluing the contacts to the plastic bottom of the chassis) I can do.
I would still like a way to insulate the side of the metal part of the chassis, though,, since it's one solid conductive mass and there'd be a risk of the pickups getting pressed against it when the loco went through a curv. I had thought about gluing electrical tape over it with Krazy Glue, since the tape is thin enough not to get in the way of the wheels turning.
I'm probably not going to do it to the Clementine after all, but I want to confirm if it's viable or not. I have a Mantua Pacific without a tender, and building a new tender would be easier if I didn't have to make said tender pick up power.
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Posted - July 01 2017 : 10:03:16 PM
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I have picked up a second near mint Royal Blue that is going to loose its smoker and gain a NWSL idler gear box on the axle that has the smoke cam and a nice little coreless motor driving that gear box. I will fill the boiler with weight once the gear box work is done. If you do the off center scripe mark, then drive the axle out of the driver and press it back on square, it works very well to maintain the quartering. Otherwise, NWSL offers the quartering tool and a press. Neither are cheap for a one time job though. My mint condition RB remains in the display case, PT tender driven. She makes one or two laps around our table top xmas tree each year. Once I figure out a new photo hosting set up, I will start posting pics of the conversion. Mike
Still NT's, I have Aspergers.
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Posted - July 02 2017 : 3:00:13 PM
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| I would not use electrical tape other than as temporary test of concept. Paint is a good insulator. "Frosting" the surfaces is important for paint adhesion. Un-polish that frame area that concenrs you and paint it. Wait 24 hours, un-polish and paint again. 2 or three coats should do nicely without being bulky.
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Posted - July 22 2017 : 10:17:53 PM
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I have seen someone take the late model Bachmann 44 ton GE diesel power chassis(the one with the single can motor driving both trucks) and put that chassis sans the diesel shell inside the Tyco tender. The side frames on the 44 tonner are not to far off from some tender truck designs. Obvoiusly this drive runs much better. Of coarse there are tweaks to make the PT run decent, making sure the drive is spotlessly clean, polishing the stub shafts the gears spin on, replacing the magnets in the motor with ones for slot cars(Aurora Thunder jet slot cars) and super gluing or JB Weld the pinion gear to the motor shaft as the final step. Most poor running PT's can be traced to gummed up gears that are almost frozen to thier shafts and weak motor magnets. Mike
Still NT's, I have Aspergers.
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Posted - July 27 2017 : 8:36:33 PM
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Here is what I am doing to a spare chassis, so as not to ruin one of my really nice ones right now. I am using the factory axle gear from the Mantua 4-6-0 old timer, removed and installed on the factory Tyco axle where the smoke unit cam was. The gear is a perfect fit for the factory opening. I then remove a section of the plastic top plate above the metal frame and mounted the idler gear box from a Mantua 2-6-6-2 logger that I scrapped years ago. Some thin shim washers are needed to get the gear mesh correct. When on the track is nice and smooth, but the axle has to much downward slop and looses mesh when under load or picked up and run on the bench. So I will glue a small piece of brass shim to keep the axle at the top of the frame bore at all times on the geared axle. A small can motor will be used with a flexable rubber tube to the gear box. Right now the motor is electrical taped to a spacer block as a test rig. So far so good. Next step is the bottom plate modifications to keep the axle gear/idler gear box mesh correct, then I will make up a motor mount and use clear aquarium caulk to mount the little motor. After its sorted out and runs well as just a bare chassis, I will transplant the Royal Blue full valve gear, pilot and such to the frame and start on the boiler modifications to remove the smoke unit and make openings to clear the can motor. My second(non mint condition) RB has a warped frame. So it will be the first one converted using my spare frame from a later Chattanooga with simplified valve gear. Pics soon. Mike
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