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 Posted - August 23 2014 : 9:07:23 PM
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Can someone provide a simple list of parts needed & if possible a basic wiring diagram. I am not an electrical person. I cannot read electrical hiryoghlifics(can't spell the word either!!!) . I hope to add lights to two consists of B&O passenger cars & put one DCC decoder in one car to control lights. Would prefer non-flicker in the 'new' cars. The 'old time' cars I want the 'old time' look with a little flicker, yellowish light like kerosene. I would hope for basics. Like I said I'm not an electrical blueprint type, but I can follow simple wiring instructions, especially with any photo source.
I know there are different resistors(suppress surges in power?), capacitors(store some power for bad spots in track?), etc. I don't know which uF, ohm, etc to buy. That is the 'language' I don't understand because it has never been explained to me. I know my HO train runs on 12 volt DC, my bedroom lamp on 120 volt AC. A transformer turns the 120 into 12, I don't know how & don't care, but it does. I get that part, as far as I'm concerned it's MAGIC!. Other than that I am helpless.
I know there are positive & negative wires & + should connect to + & - should connect to -. I know those type things. Just hoping to find someone who can explain some of these things in a simple language I can understand. Sometimes too much information is just too much.
Thanks. Hank
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Posted - August 23 2014 : 10:05:53 PM
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Well, Hank, you're opening a can of worms with wanting "simple" instructions, because nothing is always simple when it comes to modifying rolling stock and engines for DCC, lighting, etc.
First off, you say you don't want any flicker. Problem is, what kind of passenger cars are you doing this to? Tyco? Athearn? IHC? They all have different trucks, electrical pick-ups, etc. Tyco passengers only have two-wheel pick-up for each side , not all 4, so you're going to get flicker with that, unless you upgrade the trucks ( can you do that yourself ?), or add a capacitor into the lighting circuit to act as a battery ( not commonly done by most people, and I don't have a diagram to show it right now ). Some passenger cars do have 4-axle pick-up but it is not common.
Second, if you are only going to decoder one car, you'll have to run physical wires between the two passenger cars to operate BOTH car's lights off ONE decoder, did you plan on doing that? That means having exposed wires running between the two cars. Are you planning on joining them together permanently, or did you want to pull them apart when packing them? More electrical work. Although with a decoder, you will only need electrical pick-up from one passenger car, and run direct wiring to the next car anyway, so that simplfies the mods necessary to only one car, but you'll need external wiring to join it to the lights in the car traiilng ( or leading ).
You can chose either LEDs or incandescent lamps for lighting, you can get either type in soft white, blue (sharp) light, yellow, or others. The Decoder may use a lower voltage, so you may need to use bulbs that are not 12-14v, or they will be dim.
Resistors are to cut the volts down to a lower voltage item like the LED uses, but with a Decoder, you may not need them. It all depends on the Decoder and LED or bulb selected. Diodes usually are for directional lighting control as well, with non-Decoder type uses.
So your first hurdle is going to be the passenger car truck power pick-up design, and does it have any? Tyco didn't install the pick-ups if they didn't sell them with lights, and I suspect other makers did the same, so you may have to retro-fit the type of passenger car you have with pick-ups on the trucks. Then if there is no 4-axle option, you may need the specialized capacitor back-up , not sure how that would work with a Decoder, though. May not be necessary, the decoder may have it's own sort of power-smoothing circuitry, I've never played with it on passenger cars, so no idea how it might work handling power glitches.
Basically, there is no easy answer to your question, because it all depends on the Passenger car make and design you have, which you didn't mention. Until we know that, it's hard to tell what to do next at the moment.
Jerry
Train Store decoder installer / repair tech
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 12:30:09 AM
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? ! Passenger cars involved: Athearn, Mantua, Roundhouse
Plan to add capcitors/ wheelesets w/insulated wheels as necessary, already plan to change dozens of the plastic wheelsets. They suck. Wear out, get dirty, can't clean, etc.
?2 I plan to put one decoder in the lead car of a passenger consist that may never take apart to control all lights in that consist. However I have already purchased miniature connectors so that I can seperate the cars if necessary.
?3 I plan to use LED lights. White for my newer locos/cars(1950-1985), amber/white combo for the older cars (1950-1900). Amber for the 1850-1900 models for passenger/caboose. More like kerosene., don't mind some flicker here. In fact want some here for more realism.
Also need some geared wheelsets & sideframes for an AHM type RS-!!.
Just need to install my trucks with one wheel-side insulated or power trucks.
Thanks for your help.
Hank
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 12:44:15 AM
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quote:? ! Passenger cars involved: Athearn, Mantua, Roundhouse
....I have already purchased miniature connectors so that I can seperate the cars if necessary.
Just need to install my trucks with one wheel-side insulated or power trucks.
Hank
Originally posted by Hank Hobeau - August 24 2014 : 12:30:09 AM
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Ok, sounds like you have a good plan so far.   Now, if the passenger cars are running plastic axles and wheels now, I would presume they are NOT set up for lighting. So, just installing metal/isolated axles isn't going to deliver the power to the Decoder, they need pick-up springs and wiring connections. And again, it all depends on the design of the car/truck as to how they used pick-ups. Are you custom making those, or going to try to find/buy some upgrades for your passenger car trucks? Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you need so far. Once you get the metal insulated axles and wheels, and the pick-ups installed, the project can move forward. Sounds like you already planned to have the wiring be disconnectible, so that is good. I will do a bit of research on lighting, I"m sure other people will chip in here, too. I usually do lighting in locomotives, not passenger cars yet, so not sure what exactly is needed at this point. I love learning new things, though! I will help you as far as I can, hopefully to get to the end of this project. If not, others will jump in I"m sure.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 01:19:23 AM
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Thanks. I am trying to catch up on the new techniques in model trains. Took me a while (30 yrs) to get started again. I am now going to build the "Shenandoah, Elkton & Chesterfield", my railroad as 6 year old views it.
I am going to try a combination of precut axle wipers and my own with thin copper that I'm forming myself. I know some of this is trial & error. I'm hoping for much more trial than error. I have several sacrificial cars to perform my experiments upon. I also will be able to conduct all experiments on a test track that will not interfere with anything I've done right to date.
Say your more into wiring locos. I'll have many ????'s coming your way soon, especially for older type locos.
Thank you for your help today.
Hank
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 08:55:37 AM
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Hank,
I think you could buy a constant lighting circuit from Bachmann trains. They sell the PC board separate. Look in their Parts Dept. for the GP38.
A simple solution since you are using LED"s is to use a battery. Put a 9 volt battery in your cars and a switch. With LED's you should get many hours of use on a battery. You could use a rechargeable battery and occasionally set the car on a "recharging track".
Of course, you would have to remember to turn the lights off in the car when you are done for the day (night).
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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 Posted - August 24 2014 : 09:29:41 AM
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quote:Hank,
I think you could buy a constant lighting circuit from Bachmann trains.
A simple solution since you are using LED"s is to use a battery.You could use a rechargeable battery and occasionally set the car on a "recharging track".
Originally posted by NC shortlines - August 24 2014 : 08:55:37 AM
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A great idea, I have a caboose that has an internal battery to power the marker lighting on it, and a switch on the bottom to turn it on and off. I knew if we waited, someone would come up with a good idea!
Now, the track charging solution? Dangerous, as you are potentially exposing the battery circuit to DCC voltage ( and vice versa ), if you don't isolate it with a charge/non-charge switch. And who is going to remember to turn that off every time? I'd add a simple plug on the bottom to recharge the system when off-track, and then you have to physically remove the charging cable to use it. Simple and fool-proof ( and there's proof out there of many fools.  Me being one, I'd forget and probably short out the entire DCC system with that. But basing the recharge on track power would be a rather dicey solution. I'd avoid that one. But the battery system sounds great, as you eliminate the entire pick-up conundrum, and just have to wire the passenger cars together at that point. Now, where's that darn Thumbs-Up icon????....
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 10:04:08 AM
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That's a good idea. Where would I get the switch? Radio Shack? quote:Hank,
I think you could buy a constant lighting circuit from Bachmann trains. They sell the PC board separate. Look in their Parts Dept. for the GP38.
A simple solution since you are using LED"s is to use a battery. Put a 9 volt battery in your cars and a switch. With LED's you should get many hours of use on a battery. You could use a rechargeable battery and occasionally set the car on a "recharging track".
Of course, you would have to remember to turn the lights off in the car when you are done for the day (night).
Originally posted by NC shortlines - August 24 2014 : 08:55:37 AM
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 10:37:09 AM
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Now even better ideas. Could I take a "AA"/AAA" battery charger(like you use for camera, etc. I have one that I use for camera batteries here already. Could I dedicate one of those type plug in chargers & attach wires with plugs for charging four cars at once? I think it would work. Just wire from the charger to a plug. Then put the plug's 'mate' under the car & run a wire to the battery leads.. When the car needs to be recharged, take off-track or to an isolated track & plug up to recharge? Does that sound like it would work?
Also how do I post a picture here? I was going to show the charger I'm referring to. Also how do I get my 'picture' to show up on my reply to you? I like your gremlin.
quote: quote:Hank,
I think you could buy a constant lighting circuit from Bachmann trains.
A simple solution since you are using LED"s is to use a battery.You could use a rechargeable battery and occasionally set the car on a "recharging track".
Originally posted by NC shortlines - August 24 2014 : 08:55:37 AM
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A great idea, I have a caboose that has an internal battery to power the marker lighting on it, and a switch on the bottom to turn it on and off. I knew if we waited, someone would come up with a good idea!
Now, the track charging solution? Dangerous, as you are potentially exposing the battery circuit to DCC voltage ( and vice versa ), if you don't isolate it with a charge/non-charge switch. And who is going to remember to turn that off every time? I'd add a simple plug on the bottom to recharge the system when off-track, and then you have to physically remove the charging cable to use it. Simple and fool-proof ( and there's proof out there of many fools. Me being one, I'd forget and probably short out the entire DCC system with that. But basing the recharge on track power would be a rather dicey solution. I'd avoid that one. But the battery system sounds great, as you eliminate the entire pick-up conundrum, and just have to wire the passenger cars together at that point. Now, where's that darn Thumbs-Up icon????....
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â August 24 2014Â :Â 09:29:41 AM
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Edited by - Hank Hobeau on August 24 2014 10:44:20 AM
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Posted - August 24 2014 : 10:38:00 PM
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quote:| Could I take a "AA"/AAA" battery charger(like you use for camera, etc.<and> dedicate one of those type plug in chargers & attach wires with plugs for charging four cars at once? |
Yes, you can. that would work just fine - Jerry -
quote:| I think it would work. Just wire from the charger to a plug. Then put the plug's 'mate' under the car & run a wire to the battery leads.. When the car needs to be recharged, take off-track or to an isolated track & plug up to recharge? Does that sound like it would work? |
Yes, indeed! - Jerry -
quote:| Also how do I post a picture here?... how do I get my 'picture' to show up on my reply to you? |
Under "Format" at the top of the new/reply post, 2nd row, far right, the little silver icon is a camera, click on that ( It will put the picture at the END of any text you have inputted, so don't bother trying to 'insert" it between paragraphs, it will always go to the end of the text  ) It will pop up another window, you hit Select picture, then browse your PC for the location. You need to make it smaller, like 900 x 600, or it will raise hell with uploading and displaying sometimes. Anyway, then it will select it, you click on Upload File button, it will process, then you need to click on the image text line to put it into your post. Once you do it once or twice, it become easier. - Jerry -
quote:
Thanks, I'm rather fond of it too, and my 9 full-size cars.
- Jerry -
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 1:05:52 PM
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Here is a link to an article I found on YouTube covering coach lighting, if you're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiZ6Jj3OoK8
If you need help with it, I have been playing with both the discrete and surface mount led circuits. I do have
training in digital electronics and have a few circuit schematics around for them.
George
Edited by - oldtimer52 on October 10 2014 1:10:04 PM
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