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 Posted - August 15 2014 : 9:12:02 PM
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One project I've been wanting to do with the Tyco Bi-level auto racks is to upgrade them so I can run them reliably at train shows. Looking last week online for 2-56 flanged hardware, I finally ran across some on Ebay that I'd never seen before. Very thin flange ( necessary to clear the steel weight ) to install in the original base. So, having found those, I ordered 100 of them. Got them in this week, and today I proceeded to modify one car, and it turned out rather well. The Athearn-type trucks I will be using to replace the Tyco snap-ins have the perfect hole to accept the long tube without rattling around or binding, all I need now is some spacer material so the truck won't drop down, as the tube is a bit long. I may pack the gap with wound wire, 26 gauge, should work.
Anyway, I got one reassembled, now I need to mount the Kadee pockets, and see what I have. Now WHERE did I put those things? Yeesh. Always a fight to find my parts.  Anyway, here's the basics of the conversion I did. I used Tacky Glue, as it looks like a sort of silicone gel when dried, but without the stink. It should be removable if I ever want to return them to stock/original.  Eh, I doubt it. I have about 20-25 of these cars, I will probably just do 4-5 at first, and see how they run at a show. I want to do an entire consist of them, I've never seen anyone run these before that I know of. With metal wheels and kadees on them, they should give years of good service.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 15 2014 : 10:32:03 PM
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Nice conversion Jerry - those should run very well now.
I have 10 of these Tyco Auto Loaders with Kadees and metal Kadee 33" wheels.
I take a slightly different approach - I use the Micro-Mark wheel tuner on the Tyco trucks so they will accept the metal wheelsets.
For the couplers, I remove the weight, drill and tap for a 2-56 screw - and then use the black nylon screws that typically come with Kadee couplers. Then when I'm happy with the coupler fit and height, I cut off the threads protruding above, reinstall the weight and reassemble the car.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - August 15 2014 : 10:33:47 PM
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I'm looking forward to you telling us how well they do.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on August 15 2014 10:34:03 PM
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Posted - August 16 2014 : 7:21:00 PM
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PROJECT AUTO-LOADER UPGRADE , CON'T - Well, I decided to spend some time with my trains today, rather than do some auto shuffling I really NEED to do Anyway, I spent the afternoon on 4 more Auto Loader cars, breaking them down to the chassis level. Got the new threaded studs glued in early afternoon, then later on I came back and drilled holes, tapped them, and installed some older Kadee MKD 5&10 delayed couplers. I "think" they're pretty much the same as #5's, just a different magnetic alloy? I only had a few #5 new style, and have about 10 packages of this older style, so decided to use them.
Anyhoo, got 4 more cars fully modified , with studs and Kadee's installed, now I have to find more Athearn-style trucks to convert ( plus more 33 inch steel wheels ), but at least this project is moving along nicely compared to some others I attempt and get bogged down on. One Auto Loader is 95% done, just need the trucks to have the slack taken out, and it's ready to test. Need to install the Kadee's on the 2nd one, and then find trucks/axles for the last 4. So I"m happy with the progress today  Here's a few pictures to show my progress. I found some "just right" length self-tapping 2-56 screws, so shaving or cutting wasn't necessary.
  
The color variations are interesting, I'm sure the darker ones are due to tint differences, the lighter one is probably sun fade. But overall, they look good, and hopefully I'll be testing them out soon as well on track. yay! I'm a bit slow finishing projects, I often get started and don't finish them, but I think this one is fairly straight-forward, and I should get at least these 6 done fairly quickly. I will dig out my others once I can reach them in the basement storage.  But, progress is progress. I'll take it where I can.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 16 2014 : 7:53:05 PM
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quote:I'm a bit slow finishing projects, I often get started and don't finish them, but I think this one is fairly straight-forward, and I should get at least these 6 done fairly quickly. I will dig out my others once I can reach them in the basement storage. But, progress is progress. I'll take it where I can.
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â August 16 2014Â :Â 7:21:00 PM
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The same can be said about my projects in general to be honest.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - August 16 2014 : 10:27:41 PM
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Glad you are completing projects.
I gather the concern is that the T-nuts are too long. Couldn't you cut them shorter with a razor saw or hacksaw and re-tap to clean up the threads?
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - August 16 2014 : 11:09:28 PM
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quote:Glad you are completing projects.
I gather the concern is that the T-nuts are too long. Couldn't you cut them shorter with a razor saw or hacksaw and re-tap to clean up the threads?
Originally posted by NC shortlines - August 16 2014 : 10:27:41 PM
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The stud being longer, the screw can't rest on the inside of the truck shoulder. The up side is that the stud acts as a centering post, so the truck won't move side to side much. They're only half-threaded, so I could have cut them off without messing up the threads anyway, but decided I wanted the extra length to keep the truck stable side to side. I think I can find a retainer system that will go on the outside of the stud, but not interfere with the truck. I can always cut them off later, as once the truck is off, the extra length is exposed. I want to see if I can fit some actual springs around them, to literally have the truck sprung, but in a different way.  I'll see if I can pull that off or not.
I found 3 more Auto Loaders mixed in with my Bachmann Tri-level auto racks, so have been converting them this evening too. So, I should have 9 total converted before too long. Pretty good progress for me on a project lately! Pretty happy about it so far.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 17 2014 : 9:58:18 PM
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Well, I took 3 of my 4 "finished" Auto Loaders into my Train Shop job, and asked my co-worker Ricky about some miniature springs. I soon was digging through a Lionel parts drawer, and found several likely candidates. The first spring was too wide, but the 2nd was just right, a brush spring, and I was able to cut it down and fit it into the truck between the stud and the truck hole's side. Success! I finished one car, and the trucks are now fairly tight and don't rock much. Sweet! I grabbed 8 more springs, which I'll have to pay the boss for, and see if I can find more somehow. But I have enough for now to finish the 9 auto racks I"m working on right now. I set up the 3 I had brought, and tested them on the shop track, they rolled without binding, and I was very pleased at this point. The trucks wouldn't turn much due to the Kadee pocket "wings", I thought I might have to cut them off, but the trucks will swivel enough on an 18" radius and not bind, so I should be able to leave them as is. Whew! So I think the test phase is about over, and I can continue my modifications to the rest without worry now.
All in all, a very good experience so far with this project, those flanged 2-56 inserts are the big reason this project has turned into a success, has taken me several years to locate something usable without major mods necessary, but now that it's underway, I am very happy, and hopefully I can use these threaded studs on other tight clearance projects involving flat cars, gondolas, etc. Here's the shot of the 3 cars on the test track at work.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 06 2014 : 11:42:27 AM
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Well, today is my club's monthly Open House, so I've gathered up 5 completed Auto Loader cars, and also 5 of the piggyback cars, that are upgraded, and will be testing them out on the club layout, so I can see if they hold up and will be ready for public shows ( well, this IS open to the public, but not near as large a scale ). I won't be running any trailers on the flats yet, I need to figure out how to secure them, but I will take the small cars along to put on the auto loaders to see if they stay on OK. Tyco has slots in the bases, so the axles will fit down in, and as long as it doesn't turn over, they should be fine. Not going to glue them down right now. I ordered more trucks off Ebay, it was cheaper to just buy them already with the metal wheel sets, rather than try to upgrade more of my mish-mash sets of trucks I have. I pretty much used up all the normal ones, I have plenty of oddballs left, so decided to just spring for them as complete units. Should have them next week, and if today's tests go off well, I will quickly complete my current fleet of flats soon.
Anyway, will report on how well they rolled and pulled. Hopefully won't give me any major problems. I also upgraded some Athearn N&W passenger cars, and will run those as well. Should be a fun day.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 06 2014 : 6:16:43 PM
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- That about sums up my day at the Open House. My Tyco's ran pretty good, first trip around, the trip pins were catching, so I took the train back to the yard, and bent and clipped all the coupler hose pins so they wouldn't hit. Out of the 9 cars I took, one coupler lost or was missing a spring, so it came off. Another had the Kadee housing come off when I was bending the hose, so that needs a glue-on. A piggyback flat was another that lost a couple pocket, so that one will need work, too. But the other 6 ran around the layout for over an hour, and nary a problem. VERY pleased with my upgrade!
The piggyback flats were also a joy, I didn't run the piggy's on them, as I"m sure they would wobble and fall off until I can secure them on somehow. Not sure I want to glue them on, as well. But they ran smooth and sweet, and I was very happy to see my efforts be rewarded. The cars got lots of nice compliments as well. Overall a successful transition from toy to model train Now I suppose y'all want some pictures?  OK!
    
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 06 2014 : 6:35:34 PM
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no caboose?? boooo
What is trhe GIANT boxcar for?? 
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Posted - September 06 2014 : 7:08:18 PM
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That's looking pretty good, Jerry.The different variations in the orange on the freight cars make them look more "realistic". "Realistic" as in how aged they look.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on September 06 2014 7:08:27 PM
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Posted - September 06 2014 : 10:09:14 PM
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quote:
I wasn't testing cabooses today, Ben. That comes when I get my Getaway and Cabooze tourist train done and take them out for a spin. While in reality a caboose should have been on the back, I wasn't gonna drag one around while testing Tyco Transition equipment.
The big boxcar is for donations from visitors to help out our club. It's a Boxcar bank.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 12:12:31 PM
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Well, once again, my workbench , and surrounding area, had gotten so cluttered up, I couldn't use it.  So, been working on cleaning up the surrounding area, and this morning I got all the miscellaneous stuff out and off the area. So now I can sit down and work on my projects, instead of at the dining room table. I HOPE <this time, finally> I can keep it clean enough to work off of. While the picture shows it's rather packed, that's because I have my projects on it, and working on it. Not much free room available here! I bought a couple of 3-drawer units for tools and trains, put a shelf across that, and then loaded it up as well. But, long as i"m not working on a 3 foot Lionel Big Boy, I should have room to work . I also have my Uni-mat set up, but I'm missing the tool to tighten the chuck with, and it has a small hole size, so will go to Harbor Freight later today, and try and find one. I probably HAVE one <somewhere>, but not gonna look forever for it. Been there, done that, fagitaboutit!
So, here's a few pictures of my workbench now, and my ongoing Tyco Auto Loader truck/couple upgrade project, steaming ahead again finally. I've got 6 totally done and working, and here are 6 more that will give me twelve. I"m debating about converting more, as I do have another 8-10, I will see how I do with 12, and maybe just leave the rest original and parked on a siding, since I doubt I'd run 20. I've also bought more Tyco piggyback flats, from my Hobby shop job and the last train show, and I will probably convert a few more, but again, will leave more stock for siding display.
Jerry
   
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 12:50:52 PM
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AMC:
Neato, you've got 6x what NYC had already. :D
Prototype photo so people can see that Tyco and Lionel weren't 100% off the rails:
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Autobus Prime/20141121124753_EvansAutoLoader.jpg
More photos and patent drawings here:
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/nycautorack.htm
What is interesting is that Tyco was not 100% bananas with their sidewinder loading dock, either, as the same type of dock was suggested in the patent drawings:
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Autobus Prime/20141121124935_EvansAutoRack04.jpg
Positionable ramps were integral to the car, which is why the 1-level side loading ramp is able to work. Would be neat if you rebuilt one to show this feature. :)
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Posted - November 27 2014 : 10:50:41 PM
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I started on the next batch of 6 Tyco auto loader bases tonight to finish them, I already had the inserts glued in, ready for trucks. Already done the Kadee pockets, too. I got one finished, and then noticed something that I had noticed when I ran the first six at the Open House - the trucks won't swivel much, due to the Kadee pocket "wings" for the side mount screws being in the way. So, got the dremel out, and cut the wings off. Much better! Looks like I"ll be modifying the first 6 the same way soon.
Another thing I noticed was that the screw I was using to mount the trucks was a bit wobbly. After some experimentation, I determined that they are about 1/8 inch too short, they're not catching enough threads. Shoot! So, I cut down some longer ones I had, and they work nicely. So, will probably go back and add longer screws to the first 6 I did as well. Well, no conversion is without it's trials ( and errors ).
Then, when starting to assemble other bases, I noticed that the weight pocket design on the top of the chassis was different , looked at several others, and some have little side and end tabs, and others don't, the don'ts allow the weight to move around some, and interfere with the assembly of the top flat piece. The tabs on the others hold the weight in place nicely, and the top floor just snaps on easily. I'll bet they made a running change to add those tabs later, as I found it was a pain sometimes to get the weight to slide into the centered position and allow the top floor to snap down flush. Hadn't noticed it before on the first six, must have been early units. Learn alot doing this type of work!
Here's some pictures of tonight's effort. When these 6 are done, I'll go back and upgrade the first 6, then I want to switch back to piggyback flats, as I have a bunch more I've acquired. I'm gonna need more 33" wheels as well, I think I ran out already. Sheesh. But this is going to be my AMC consist, so I want this project to get done, and get done right. Working on it when I can.
Jerry
Above, if you look around the inside perimeter lip of the upper chassis, you can see the tiny tabs that hold the weight in place squarely. Nice upgrade, Tyco!
Above, here I have cut the upper wings off the Kadee cover, so the wheels won't hit.
Above, I took the truck off so you can see the upper wings removed. The truck can swivel further now, doesn't need much. It would still work on 18 radius, but I wanted a bit more slack in the side to side pivot.
So , a productive train night on TG day, was footballed out for awhile. :) Glad to make more progress on the AMC railroad consist again.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 12:36:10 AM
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Glad you mentioned that about the inserts. Just checked the ones I got and it's the same. I thought the threads went all the way thru. Gonna have to order some longer screws now.
Edited by - oldtimer52 on November 28 2014 12:37:04 AM
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 02:22:42 AM
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Concerning the chassis without the tabs, have you tried assembling those upside down? You know, turn the deck upside down, place the weight between the deck retaining clips, then snap on the chassis.
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 07:59:25 AM
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quote:Concerning the chassis without the tabs, have you tried assembling those upside down? You know, turn the deck upside down, place the weight between the deck retaining clips, then snap on the chassis.
Originally posted by gmoney - November 28 2014 : 02:22:42 AM
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Yes, actually, I did start turning them upside down to align them better. that trick worked pretty good, although the weight could still slide end to end, and had to be stuffed back in properly before it'd snap closed all the way. Not a huge issue, but I imagine on an assembly line, they're right side up, and they wouldn't want to waste time individually handling them each time, hence the mold change to add centering tabs Pretty nice upgrade, it's the first time I've noticed that on these cars, then again, how many people have taken apart 15+ of these ? Much less one? Since I'm in manufacturing, I can appreciate all the little tricks used to help Production efficiency be boosted.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 09:15:03 AM
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[quote]Well, once again, my workbench , and surrounding area, had gotten so cluttered up, I couldn't use it. So, been working on cleaning up the surrounding area, and this morning I got all the miscellaneous stuff out and off the area. [quote]
Jerry. You have lost all control.
* Seeing this photo I have come to the conclusion that you have lost your modeling direction. It is diagnosed as " CronicModelrailroadingFatigue". it is a long word and hard to pronounce. This can be a dangerous situation so you are in the need of immediate help. May I recommend you contact this team of men who are well versed with this problem.
Nickel plate 759 and Redneck Justin.
 
These are totally professional and competent individuals which can be easily told by their looks in these photos. So fear not you will be in good hands.
Between the three of you a answerer can be found. Look in the obvious places, everywhere else.
Because of your advanced condition you must contact this team immediately !
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on November 28 2014 09:24:27 AM
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 09:50:22 AM
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quote:
* Seeing this photo I have come to the conclusion that you have lost your modeling direction. It is diagnosed as " CronicModelrailroadingFatigue".. May I recommend you contact this team of men who are well versed with this problem.
Nickel plate 759 and Redneck Justin.
Because of your advanced condition you must contact this team immediately !
Originally posted by toptrain - November 28 2014 : 09:15:03 AM
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No, my direction is, in the words of Microbusss, moar, MOAR, MOOOAAARRRR!!! I've just organized the stacking better. Like I mentioned, I'm actually WORKING here, so what you see on the bench is "in progress", not storage. I'm definitely overloaded with stuff, and am in a continuing cycle of sorting, repacking, down-sizing, trashing, and other forms of organizing the chaos. It won't be completed anytime soon (or in my lifetime, even), but it's always underway. Besides, Albert Einstein was a genius, and his work study was also a shambles, if you're seen any pictures of it. OCD I am not afflicted with. LOL! While I'm not happy with my space limitations ( I'd need a warehouse to satisfy ME ), I am much happier since I've organized the semi-chaos I had before. I have my bench more or less organized, although space is limited, I have my Uni-mat drill press working and right beside me, I have lighting and tools handy, so for the moment, this increased efficiency is working for me. Just don't jiggle the pile(s) too hard!
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 10:59:58 AM
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I think the answer lies, not in a clinical understanding of Chronicmodelrailroadingfatique, but on the leading edge of modern mathematics. By understanding the fractals of the larger mess and how they interact, the Chaos Theoretician can detect the natural order and direction of a situation that is, on the face of it, quite incomprehensible.
Certainly, the nerves jangle at the sight of the workbench but it can, no doubt, be broken out into smaller, more comprehensible patterns. It may, however, require a multidisciplinary approach combining Chaos Theory with Archeology. In the Middle East, cities are built on the rubble of past cities in a layered pattern called a tel (as in Tel Aviv). It is possible that, just as the archeologist learns layers of history digging through layers of rubble, sense could be made of the layered stacks of projects.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - December 06 2014 : 9:49:47 PM
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Moar info on the Tyco Autoloader - I've discovered yet a third variation, this time the bottom chassis has been modified to accept two smaller steel weights, instead of one long one. I suspect this was done so that they didn't have to drill the holes in the weights to clear the truck hub pins, and avoid the mold tongue, or belly button (outtie ) that resulted in the center, too. . Drilling that steel weight was probably a pain, and really unnecessary if the design was done right. The weight really dropped, though, with that extra steel not there, I think I'd prefer the extra weight. Will have to weigh it to see if it meets NMRA standards now. So far I've discovered this new mod on just two of my latest Auto Loader cars, they are probably newer, the orange is really bright, so that would go along with the 3 revisions idea. Wonder if there are any more variations to this car? 
Jerry in VA, continuing the upgrades...
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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