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 Posted - August 04 2014 : 05:56:54 AM
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As much as I love Tyco, I am ready to throw my third attempt at a Spirit of 76 GP 40 over the garden wall. It almost always comes down to a split drive gear, you know that little tiny white one, that comes off the drive shaft?
Any suggestions for how to adapt and an Athearn chassis, or even an AHM chassis to the cute Tyco shell? I do not own a lathe or garage full of sophisticated tools.
In general, I have come to avoid Tyco locos like the bubonic plauge. Just waiting for my Tyco GG1 to split its drive gear. The older Mantuas seem to hold up pretty good, for the most part, although I have had to replace worn gears on them from time to time.
Chops
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Posted - August 04 2014 : 10:11:49 AM
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Um, are you saying that the "little tiny drive gear" is PLASTIC? On all the Tyco PT's I've seen, and my spare motors, they're a metal alloy, not plastic. Is this a later change Tyco made? Because I bought a bunch of spare motors some years ago, and the tiny gear is metal, not plastic. The BIG gear is plastic, though. if that's all you need, I can round up a metal one to send you, I have some spares off bad motors I think. Wonder if the shaft size is the same? hmmm....
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 04 2014 : 11:56:49 AM
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Chops,
Can you post a pic of the trouble item?
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - August 04 2014 : 12:53:32 PM
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he probabally means that tiny pinion gear thats on the motor
I had one slip on my UP E7  but I had a friend help me get it to work 
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Posted - August 04 2014 : 1:54:30 PM
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Most of the PT pinions were white metal (Zamac), though some early ones were brass. The white metal ones are problematic because they're soft. They don't split, they just slip. Removing oil from it and the shaft with alcohol and securing it with a drop of Zap CA keeps it in place.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - August 04 2014 : 5:29:31 PM
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quote:Most of the PT pinions were white metal (Zamac), They don't split, they just slip.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â August 04 2014Â :Â 1:54:30 PM
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Actually, the ones I noticed problems with, the teeth were partially ground off, or rounded off. Not split, as you say. If the teeth are full size, then I look at the big plastic gear to see if any problems there. But most of the motors I had with slippage had the teeth on the pinion gear worn or misshapen, and replacing it with one with good teeth cured the slippage problem.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 01:36:59 AM
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Do you mean a C-430, if so look at my post on installing an athearn SD-40 chassis in the customizing section?quote:As much as I love Tyco, I am ready to throw my third attempt at a Spirit of 76 GP 40 over the garden wall. It almost always comes down to a split drive gear, you know that little tiny white one, that comes off the drive shaft?
Any suggestions for how to adapt and an Athearn chassis, or even an AHM chassis to the cute Tyco shell? I do not own a lathe or garage full of sophisticated tools.
In general, I have come to avoid Tyco locos like the bubonic plauge. Just waiting for my Tyco GG1 to split its drive gear. The older Mantuas seem to hold up pretty good, for the most part, although I have had to replace worn gears on them from time to time.
Chops
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â August 04 2014Â :Â 05:56:54 AM
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 03:47:56 AM
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Metalsmith1, I will be studying your post you mentioned. Let me show the offending beast. You will note the power truck is a different color, that came off yet another failed Tyco.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/uploaded/Chops124/20140805035655_'76%20failed%20gear.jpg
The photo was taken at the very moment the gear failed, about a day ago.
Edited by - Chops124 on August 05 2014 03:58:28 AM
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 10:01:14 AM
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Here's the article:http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14250
Looks like if you have a dremel this could be done.
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 1:36:13 PM
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A few words... first, this is a C430, not a GP40. Bachmann's the one who made a cheap-ass GP40 at the same time, not Tyco.
And speaking of Bachmann, that's the problem. The "power truck of a different color, that came off yet another failed Tyco" is not from a Tyco but from a Bachmann loco from the 80s, which used very similar means of mounting the trucks to the loco. THOSE are what you should be avoiding like the plague - they all have white plastic (nylon?) gears that ALWAYS crack. I have an ancient Bachmann U36B with the same truck, and the same problem you've described.
--CRC
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 1:39:13 PM
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quote:
Actually, the ones I noticed problems with, the teeth were partially ground off, or rounded off. Not split, as you say. If the teeth are full size, then I look at the big plastic gear to see if any problems there. But most of the motors I had with slippage had the teeth on the pinion gear worn or misshapen, and replacing it with one with good teeth cured the slippage problem.
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â August 04 2014Â :Â 5:29:31 PM
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Jerry, I've seen this wear pattern in most of the pinions, even some of the brass ones, and always on the sides of the teeth that are used in the forward direction. I've never seen them worn completely through, but I'm sure it could happen if the loco was run enough. The white metal ones do seem to let go of the motor shaft pretty easily.
I guess this is one of the corporate compromises the Tyco designer that Tony L. interviewed referred to. Originally the pinions were brass or bronze.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 6:36:27 PM
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| Thanks for posting my post RCGW....I still haven't figured out how to do that on the forum,
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 10:14:52 PM
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I think NWSL sells replacement gears for the Bachmann GP40. They are machined not cast plastic.
The cast plastic shrinks over time and cracks. The machined plastic gears are a more stable material and do not shrink. Or maybe are preshrunk before machining.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - August 05 2014 : 10:35:44 PM
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quote:I think NWSL sells replacement gears for the Bachmann GP40. They are machined not cast plastic.
The cast plastic shrinks over time and cracks. The machined plastic gears are a more stable material and do not shrink. Or maybe are preshrunk before machining.
Originally posted by NC shortlines - August 05 2014 : 10:14:52 PM
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NWSL has great stuff, but the question is if it is worth it. I got a replacement axle gear for a Bachmann from them, ending up over $20 delivered. Works perfectly but I'm thinking a pile of salvaged Bachmann gears would be more cost effective. Interestingly, I ordered later replacement gears from Bachmann, and it appeared that's what they sent me - used axle gears taken off returned locomotives. Price was right though.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - August 06 2014 : 2:48:19 PM
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| Wow, a lot of great feed back and information. I had not realized I was mixing my Bachmann and Tyco, for starters. I will also check out NWSL gears. Thank you one and all.
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Posted - August 06 2014 : 3:17:53 PM
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PRR 4800, why the assumption that he installed a Bachmann power truck? The front truck of the C-430 is the powered one, and this is clearly Tyco PT. If the rear truck is a Bachmann retrofit, then it's probably a dummy. Besides, the Bachmann pancake motor had a brass pinion on the shaft that wasn't prone to slippage which is what Chops is describing.
Chops, this gear problem can be easily fixed with CA, or a new pinion. PT trucks are a dime a dozen, so parts aren't hard to come by, including a matching rear truck. But if you would rather repower it with an Athearn chassis, more power to you, pun intended. 
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - August 07 2014 : 01:43:43 AM
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I gently pried out the power truck, and low and behold the pinion gear,
on this apparently Bachmann truck, had merely slipped off center. A gentle
nudge and it went back into place. I will add a tiny drop of a CA. If
I can rummage up another power truck, I think I might replace
the dummy truck. Double the power.
Any other attempt to re-power this would take an act of God, although
I am amazed at the ingenious work others have done to repower Tyco. I
can only wish I had such clever hands. Some of the LOTW's of this
week have extraordinary re-powering jobs. Some of the customization work
under that forum are equally jaw dropping.
Pun greatly appreciated. COL (chuckling out loud).
Edited by - Chops124 on August 07 2014 01:46:09 AM
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Posted - August 07 2014 : 09:28:52 AM
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Chops, I'll tell you like I told my brother when he scratch bashed his caboose and again when he did his custom kit:
Model building on any level has its parts box full of failed attempts, however if you don't try and get your hands dirty trying, you'll never know if you can succeed and just keep shelling out more dollars on things that look good, but not revell in the satisfaction that you built this.
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - August 07 2014 : 09:54:11 AM
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Chops, so the rear EMD truck is the power truck now? 
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Posted - August 07 2014 : 10:57:34 AM
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quote:If
I can rummage up another power truck, I think I might replace
the dummy truck. Double the power.
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â August 07 2014Â :Â 01:43:43 AM
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Some time back, I read an article by someone who had two Bachmann GP30's and put both power trucks in one of the engines. He put both dummy trucks in the other engine and moved half the weights from the dummy into the powered unit. In this engine, the weights were stacked up steel plates above the fuel tank. The new arrangement outpulled the old double header because more of the weight ended up on the powered trucks.
What you're thinking is not unprecedented and what has been done can be done.
Carpe Manana!
Edited by - scsshaggy on August 07 2014 11:04:10 AM
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Posted - August 07 2014 : 3:37:00 PM
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quote:
Model building on any level has its parts box full of failed attempts, however if you don't try and get your hands dirty trying, you'll never know if you can succeed and just keep shelling out more dollars on things that look good, but not revell in the satisfaction that you built this.
Originally posted by rgcw5Â -Â August 07 2014Â :Â 09:28:52 AM
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Words to remember!
http://tycodepot.com/
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