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 Posted - March 16 2007 : 12:40:42 PM
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Hey Guys:
I wanted to solicit some opinions about "running" our vintage train collections.
Amongst my collection I have:
-Two Phase 1 Rivarossi powered Super 630's in their original boxes.
-Pre `63 Tyco GP20 Kit (NIB) Unassemled
-two Tyco "State" commemorative Boxcars (NIB)
-Mantua Steamlined Observation Canadian Pacific car (NIB/Un-assm'd)
As I see it, these should reamain in their respective boxes and not used, whereas I have two absolutely immaculate Tyco (MU-2) Alco C-430's (SF and a CN) that are not in boxes that I am inclined to run even if only sparingly.
Really what we're talking about here is a "colletor" item as opposed to an Operational item.
Anyway thats what I wanted to toss out there. Thoughts? Opinions, some "Bloviating" as a famous Fox News commentator would say!
Thanks,
Gareth
Edited by - romcat on March 20 2007 03:19:59 AM
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 12:49:23 PM
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I am a firm believer in IF IT HAS A MOTOR RUN IT!
I also collect Lionel,Marx,and American Flyer and I run every one of 'em
It doesn't bother me if it is mint or otherwise, they get plenty of track time.
I say put 'em together and put them on rails.
Carl T.
President of the Cape James Terminal RR.
Edited by - choochin3 on March 16 2007 1:08:52 PM
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 1:59:39 PM
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Metaphorically, classic automobiles are relevant:
I recall seeing an auction in 2005 for a 1987 Buick Grand National. The car had NEVER been driven. It still had all the factory plastic/shrinkwrap on the interior bits!
Such a shame. Cars were meant to be driven (that's why they were built!), and trailer queens disgust me.
So... in my personal humble opinion:
If a box did not come with shrinkwrap, and/or there is none present (because the shrinkwrap is gone or there never was any in the first place), then it is absolutely pointless to keep something in the box. Really. There is no "collector's value" in an unsealed, unopened box. Because it is very easy to carefully open the box and run the engine (or freight car or whatever). And if you take care of both contents and box, you can put them away and never know it was run. So why not?
Whenever someone on ebay lists something as "never out of the box!" I just call BS on that anyway. It may look pristine enough but it can't be proven, so what's the point?
Sure, you might run the risk of an "event" that causes damage. But these thinks were meant to be enjoyed.
I guess there's nothing wrong with enjoying your collection, and if that means keeping it boxed, I can understand that. But I wouldn't hesitate for a second to crack one open and test it out. [^]
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 2:07:12 PM
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Hey GIC;
That's an idea I hadn't thought about. If I buy from a guy on EB that says it's never been out of the box who's to say he's telling the truth!?
One thing though, what would you say in the case of a "kit" like the Pre-63 GP20 kit. It clearly has not been assembled and run, nor has the Mantua Streamliner Observation car. Would you assemble them and run them?
I was also just thinking, so say I run something but take real good care of it and nothing ever gets broken. If I decide to sell it one day as a "collectible" how much less will it be worth as a MIB or Excellent as opposed to a NIB that someone may not be able to prove!?
-Gareth
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 4:12:05 PM
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quote:| One thing though, what would you say in the case of a "kit" like the Pre-63 GP20 kit. It clearly has not been assembled and run, nor has the Mantua Streamliner Observation car. Would you assemble them and run them? |
Hmm. That all depends on how they go together. Assuming it's all snap/screw assembly, no painting/gluing... no sealed plastic baggies... then if it was potentially more valuable as a "kit", I might assemble it anyway and then consider from there. It would be more involved... but not impossible.
Think about Athearn blue-box kits for a while, and then try to answer that question. [;)]
quote:| I was also just thinking, so say I run something but take real good care of it and nothing ever gets broken. If I decide to sell it one day as a "collectible" how much less will it be worth as a MIB or Excellent as opposed to a NIB that someone may not be able to prove!? |
I guess that all depends. To someone like me, it wouldn't be worth and more or less. It all depends on the buyers knowledge and the particulars of the piece. If I know that something came in an unsealed box when new, then there is no reason to believe it was never out of the box, even once. But if the box and contents are "minty fresh", that's still significant, whether the contents were used or not. And that's the best you could hope for. I'd rather have something that was run a little, myself - so I could maybe add to its story so to speak.
I always try to use the term "LNIB".
But I imagine I don't speak for everyone... [:P]
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obtrey
Little Six
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 4:29:28 PM
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I am wounded, OH, OH, am I ever wounded.
I can't say that the 5 GG-1's I have here were never taken out of the box (there are pictures here that prove that), but I can say they have never been on a track. Can I prove it? nope, now do I beleive a person on ebay when they say mib or nib, or never used? Dunno when I look at something that's called mint or new I try to compare in my mind with what I have here that I say is nib or mib and do i think it will measure up. So far I have been disappointed. I remember when I started reading certain series of books and talking with other readers and they told me sometimes they buy 2 books 1 for reading and 1 for saving. I never saw the logic in that and I have sold quite a few series of books over time 1 had over 300 titles and was started in the 70's but it was in excellent condition. Now do i buy 2 trains 1 for play and 1 for show or save? not at todays prices. The only reason I never used the GG-1's is they didn't look right (out of proportion) next to the passanger cars so I kept with the AHM and I did use them right out of the box, couldn't wait to get home and give them a run.
OK I vented so I am no longer wounded, just bruised, slightly.
Bob
In Malfunction Junction:
When all else fails get a bigger hammer.
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 4:38:57 PM
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[:D]
I like, "LNIB"! To me thats what the term excellent is supposed to mean. The last time I put together an Athearn Blue Box was the `70's! Don't know how I would class that.
I have a LNIB Athearn U28B in original box and a railing kit that was never installed. I bought it on impulse so it's going to get sold, but It'll get described for what it is, which means I didn't take the Cellophane off it (do they still use "cellophane"?) therefore it can only be MIB or less.
I think I'm inclined to leave an unbuilt kit unbuilt, cause despite what you may have heard in a bar, you can only be a Virgin once. OTOH I met a woman who I asked about being a virgin AND NO I DON"T REMEMBER HOW IT CAME UP!!! and I'll always remeber what she said; "sometimes"!!![8)] [8)] [8)] [8)] [8)]
It's like you said GIC, the guy I bought it from said NIB but how true is that, and how sure can I be?
I think I'm going to start grading my Roster. I think I'll ask Todd to add a section for members to list their entire rosters? Be kinda fun to peruse each others rosters!?
-Gareth
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obtrey
Little Six
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 5:00:47 PM
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And I expect a roster for some of us will use up a lot of bandwith.
Now whose to say that I bought a kit years ago and took it out of the box and assembled it, didn't like it, disassembled it and put it back in the box and now call it mib, does it happen? maybe. Can it be proven? Good luck, especially when advertised as is no returns.
And I like that virgin remark, made me smile.
Are you married? ask my wife or who me? let's see I'm in Vegas and she's at home[B)]
In Malfunction Junction:
When all else fails get a bigger hammer.
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 6:24:02 PM
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Hey Bob:
Well a list should only take up modest space if kept to Text and as for bandwidth, well I guess thats up to Todd in his Guise as Admin and Server owner!.
As to marriage, I am what the Roman Catholic Church refers to as "permanently seperated" It means I am civilly divorced, but there is no annulment from the church, so; I'm still married for the duration.
Cheers,
Gareth
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Posted - March 16 2007 : 11:22:50 PM
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Kits...
I have put kits together... kits that came out well before I was born...
Take these two MDC's for instance:
Car # 398 Refer ice bunker 36' "A. BOOTH & CO." Printed Built Date 1907 A.Booth's Cold Storage System
Car # 76204 36' Boxcar PENNSYLVANIA 1928 Empire <--Line
The Pennsy one has actual grab irons that you add (they look just like old staples)...
For me, out of the box, put together, and give the box to a friend, and get some major mileage on those wheels. Oh, I also put Kadees on them so I can have one large unit train/reefer block of assorted 36 footers.
And...
My Mantua little behemoth "Lil' Six" is painted flat black and red, Kadee'd and is a workhorse...
My TYCO RedBox Industrial Switcher is also painted flat-black and red... and it runs like new with a nice growl...
People are restoring real steam locomotives, because they want to relive a certain pastime.
Hmmm... maybe our next generation will look at the model trains that never turned a wheel... I remember when the APPLE II came out, every one of them were used for education, but mostly, they were used. Our 12' X 36' club layout has a new home in a museum. Part of the museum has an exibit of an Apple II.
I was eight years old in 1976 when I got my first TYCO trainset. I'm now 38... and almost wishing I could run that train again, 30 years later, if only I could find it.
I now have 300+ pieces of rolling stock, most are Athearn, MDC/ROUNDHOUSE, kits that were produced before the 1980's. Last year, I assembled six Athearn passengercars with those older metal trucks... they roll just nicely.
I guess it's one thing to have a mint condition, never been handled, much less exchanged air from since it was first sealed in the box, model "toy" train.
It's another thing to know it was part of someone's childhood or even adulthood... because it actually rolled on train tracks and made someone smile with great contentedness.
I bought a P1K RS-18 with all the works... a small girl started waving at it when I activated the bell... and then she jumped in fright when I blew the horn... and then she had the biggest smile.
The same happened to an elderly man, less the frightened reaction.
Putting on the miles will get you warmer smiles, I think.
That's my cents sense and I'm sticking to it.
John
p.s. good topic.
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
Edited by - zebrails on March 16 2007 11:54:26 PM
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obtrey
Little Six
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Posted - March 17 2007 : 12:02:00 AM
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Gareth,
I made a promise in 1973 and have never gone back on it I'm one also and know the policy. Tempted? more than twice. Afew guys I used to work with basically made that stratement and were serious about it.. The closest I've ever been to Vegas is Travis AFB about 1/2 way between 'Frisco & Sacramento. My first inventory took 5 pages and that was just Tyco, and I missed a few items. I don't know if I want to start the AHM, Mantua, Cox, Bachman, Lionel, ETC.
Keep the faith.
Bob
In Malfunction Junction:
When all else fails get a bigger hammer.
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Posted - March 20 2007 : 08:08:56 AM
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Hmmmm, this was a tough one to answer. I wasn't ignoring your post, I started at least twice to answer and didn't.
I really love to both collect model trains and to operate model trains. You'd think they go together, but they actually have next to nothing to do with each other.
It's silly in a way. For example, I picked up a Bowser 70ton Hopper in red Burlington with C&S reporting marks Saturday. I bought it new Proto 2000 wheels and scale whisker Kadee couplers. Here it is days later and I haven't opened it yet. There's nothing collectible about it and I did buy it to operate, but it is a kit and there's a part of me that says keep it mint and unbuilt...why I don't know.
Then the other side of me will see some unopened TYCO or other "vintage" piece and want to bust open the box and put on the rails and take it for a spin.
So, I have no firm answer. [:D]
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - March 20 2007 : 08:57:15 AM
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| I am a firm believer in running my trains. These are toys that were built to be played with. As such, I have nothing that hasn't been at least test run. Most of my roster has been modified in some way which makes them non-collectible anyway. I have added wire grabs, new motors, traded chassies, ect. I want my locos to run and "look better" then when I got them. And no, my trains are not babied in any way. My main operators range in age from 4 to 8 years old.
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 Posted - March 21 2007 : 12:10:53 AM
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Hi All,
I think we should run those collector pieces. I mean really, If we just let them sit on the shelf, When we kick the bucket they will be sold off to who knows who and for next to nothing anyway. So why not run them and get some enjoyment out of them while we can, instead of just providing shelf space for them.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - March 25 2007 : 11:16:39 AM
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If you've got 'em, run 'em! You only get one trip on this orb.
Russ
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