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 Posted - February 20 2014 : 9:21:55 PM
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Here's why I care about the blue box kits. My second model train was an Athearn blue box F-7 Santa Fe Chief diesel that came in a kit. I also have some of the older Athearn blue box kits. So this is important to me. Feel free to rant about Athearn dropping blue box kits here. Also, here's the engine and it's box. Still runs beautifully to this day.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on February 21 2014 10:36:10 AM
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 10:01:57 PM
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kovacs, I have ranted plenty on this subject - both here and on other sites. My biggest concern is that manufacturers seem to be headed onward and ever upward to the RTR stuff that is detailed beyond every dream - and costs to match.
I appreciate that they put these masterpieces on the market for people that want and can afford them, but it prices folks like me out of the new market.
I'd like to see a "value Line" - quality drivetrains - and simple - that are built to last, with decently detailed and proportioned shells, as well as undecorated.
Now the clincher is that this definition fit the BB line. 
But, they are in business to make money and take the risk. I just think they are meeting a short-sighted demand NOW, and losing long -term sales. I'm not going to lose sleep over it though, I'm having plenty of fun and finding what I need through second-hand sales, train shows, ebay, flea markets, trades....and I really enjoy the old stuff. I think there is plenty of that stuff to last my lifetime
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 11:44:35 PM
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I wish the Blue Box line was still around as well, but with inflation and increased price of parts, it would probably be $50-60 per locomotive, and at least $12 per car, considering more expensive knuckle couplers are standard now.
Then you would still not get the separately applied detail on the RTR cars. Keep in mind other manufacturers like accurail make detailed and relatively cheap car kits. Bachmann also makes locomotives for fairly cheap prices as well.
So even though I am as upset as anyone else at the loss of Athearn Blue Box, and even though I would be happy to buy Blue Box products were they still being made, I can understand the decision to discontinue Blue Box on a business level.
Unfortunately, business is not the only part of the equation. Like Kovacste000 related, Blue Box has helped many people get started in the hobby, including myself. Even though other manufacturers make entry level train sets, Blue Box is certainly a bridge between sets designed as toys and superdetailed scale models. The loss of any entry to the hobby is a great loss indeed.
ChessieRR
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Posted - February 21 2014 : 12:43:10 AM
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Irv's main business was automotive parts and that is where he made his fortune, so he was able to keep the Blue Box prices artificially low for years. My LHS owner pointed out recently that this no doubt affected the competition at the time, since they couldn't produce the same quality at such a low price point.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 21 2014 : 01:24:24 AM
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| This may just be a rumor, but a fella that runs a local hobby shop commented the other day that there is talk about Athearn bringing back the Blue Box line. With Athearn under new management and the production being re-located to Texas it could be a possibility. I know that there are new incentives being tossed around in legislation to encourage manufacturers to bring production back to American shores. Perhaps this will work out for us lil'ol' railfans
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Posted - February 21 2014 : 10:23:59 AM
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quote:kovacs, I have ranted plenty on this subject - both here and on other sites. My biggest concern is that manufacturers seem to be headed onward and ever upward to the RTR stuff that is detailed beyond every dream - and costs to match.
I appreciate that they put these masterpieces on the market for people that want and can afford them, but it prices folks like me out of the new market.
I'd like to see a "value Line" - quality drivetrains - and simple - that are built to last, with decently detailed and proportioned shells, as well as undecorated.
Now the clincher is that this definition fit the BB line.
But, they are in business to make money and take the risk. I just think they are meeting a short-sighted demand NOW, and losing long -term sales. I'm not going to lose sleep over it though, I'm having plenty of fun and finding what I need through second-hand sales, train shows, ebay, flea markets, trades....and I really enjoy the old stuff. I think there is plenty of that stuff to last my lifetime
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â February 20 2014Â :Â 10:01:57 PM
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Sorry, I just haven't seen that thread about this yet.Oh well. Also, I usually get my locomotives and rolling stock and even some decorative items for my layout at train shows.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on February 21 2014 10:25:54 AM
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Posted - February 22 2014 : 12:25:17 PM
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Sorry, I think I used up all my Blue Box rants for the week on another thread of yours...
--CRC
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Posted - February 22 2014 : 2:03:20 PM
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quote:Sorry, I think I used up all my Blue Box rants for the week on another thread of yours...
Originally posted by PRR 4800Â -Â February 22 2014Â :Â 12:25:17 PM
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I'm usually good for a Blue Box rant about once a month or so
But you know in real, practical terms...as I was thinking a little about this last night.....the used market (train shows. ebay, etc.) has become my BB Value Line. There's still tons of BB stuff out there, plus the used versions of everything else. Maybe ht ebest way to do it in the long run 
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 22 2014 : 3:46:08 PM
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quote: quote:Sorry, I think I used up all my Blue Box rants for the week on another thread of yours...
Originally posted by PRR 4800Â -Â February 22 2014Â :Â 12:25:17 PM
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I'm usually good for a Blue Box rant about once a month or so
But you know in real, practical terms...as I was thinking a little about this last night.....the used market (train shows. ebay, etc.) has become my BB Value Line. There's still tons of BB stuff out there, plus the used versions of everything else. Maybe ht ebest way to do it in the long run
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â February 22 2014Â :Â 2:03:20 PM
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That is very true. I have found tons of blue box stuff at train shows for dirt cheap.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 3:03:07 PM
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Nelson,
I had always believed that Athearn was a garden tool manufacturing company, And Irv built trains in the off season to keep his employees busy. It Appears that both of us are wrong. He started out manufacturing trains. From the late 40s to the 90s He provided a great line of trains at low cost. I believe he managed to do this with technics that are still valid today.
1. He designed different models that used standard parts where possible
2. He allowed the modeler to do final assemble of the models.
3. The models were designed to be mass produced.
4. The basic engineering was sound and could be fine tuned or run out of the box.
5. The model were undated and improved on a regular basis, but not changed every production run.
6. Most of his models were of mass produced prototypes with popular desirability.
7. He provided a source for parts for repair and upgrades.
8. His models were basic but pretty good models that could be upgraded as the individual desired.
9. His sales volume was high and induced many aftermarket items to improve his models.
10. He owned his production resources and had full control of them.
The grip about the Atearn RTR and Blue Box line being dated is true. The idea of building as many different models with as few parts as possible is still valid. The main problem with the Athearn line in the later years it was made here, was the quality of labor. The engineering was sound, but the units were not always assembled well. These problems can be minimized by modern manufacturing solutions.
It seems the overseas production is experiencing the same labor problems now, not to mention some whole production runs plagued by engineering problems.
It is time to apply Irv's solutions to a made in America Athearn line of affordable model trains.
Regards John ****************************
The English language is the only language in the world where "Fat Chance" & "Thin Chance" mean the same thing. <> Unknown
Edited by - JRG1951 on February 25 2014 4:42:43 PM
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 4:33:10 PM
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quote:Nelson,
I had always believed that Athearn was a garden tool manufacturing company, And Irv built trains in the off season to keep his employees busy. It Appears that both of us are wrong. He started out manufacturing trains. From the late 40s to the 90s He provided a great line of trains at low cost. I believe he managed to do this with technics that are still valid today.
1. He designed different models that used standard parts where possible
2. He allowed the modeler to do final assemble of the models.
3. The models were designed to be massed produced.
4. The basic engineering was sound and could be fine tuned or run out of the box.
5. The model were undated and improved on a regular basis, but not changed every production run.
6. Most of his models were of mass produced prototypes with popular desirability.
7. He provided a source for parts for repair and upgrades.
8. His models were basic but pretty good models that could be upgraded as the individual desired.
9. His sales volume was high and induced many aftermarket items to improve his models.
10. He owned his production resources and had full control of them.
The grip about the Atearn RTR and Blue Box line being dated is true. The idea of building as many different models with as few parts as possible is still valid. The main problem with the Athearn line in the later years it was made here, was the quality of labor. The engineering was sound, but the units were not always assembled well. These problems can be minimized by modern manufacturing solutions.
It seems the overseas production is experiencing the same labor problems now, not to mention some whole production runs plagued by engineering problems.
It is time to apply Irv's solutions to a made in America Athearn line of affordable model trains.
Regards John ****************************
The English language is the only language in the world where "Fat Chance" & "Thin Chance" mean the same thing. <> Unknown
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 25 2014Â :Â 3:03:07 PM
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John - in my opinion your post should be etched in stone and delivered by air drop to every hobby manufacturer out there (including today's Athearn!). And YES, could and should be followed today.
It's becoming more RTR collecting than it is a hobby. They build, we buy, we put on shelf. Repeat. Parts? Huh?
Here's a good one I am discovering. Proto 1000/2000 are one of my favorite locomotive lines. Powerful, dependable (discounted the cracked axle deal) and smooth running. the 1000 has a bit less detail but to me still excellent and YES, add on more if you choose! The problem? PARTS. They don't exist. Want parts? Buy an extra locomotive.
That my friends is today's business model in producing locomotives. Don't like it? I don't have an answer for you. The companies are having the units built in China, they build them and that's it. No spares. On to the next great pre-order marvel....
Wow that's two rants for me this week. Above average
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 5:01:19 PM
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Jerry,
I have a few early production Life Like P1000 models. In many cases they were copied so close to the Athearn Blue Box, that many parts are interchangeable. I have fixed their F3s with Athearn Axle Gears.
Bachmann has done a good job as of late in building locomotives from standard parts. I do not believe they are as rugged as the BB Athearn, But at least they have parts for the current production diesels. They own their plant in China, which helps with some of the production and quality problems. Not perfect, but I will buy a Bachmann before the other order and wait companies. Cost is a big factor in this choice.
Regards, John *********
Here at this site, Solyndra expects to make enough solar panels each year to generate 500 megawatts of electricity. And over the lifetime of this expanded facility, that could be like replacing as many as eight coal-fired power plants. <> Barack Obama 
Edited by - JRG1951 on February 25 2014 5:14:48 PM
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 5:17:27 PM
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John, yes they are remarkably Athearn-like and not far from downright copies (which is good). And I have been able to replace the cracked axles I have experienced with Athearn ones. The downside is that not all of the P1000/2000 axle/wheels are Athearn interchangeable. Some of the later ones have a different tooth design and the Athearn gear will not mesh (found that out with a P2K GP30) and the P1K axle/wheels in the Erie Builts are of an altogether different design (gear is offset on the axle and the axles themselves ride in the sideframes).
So in those cases - very frustrating that the design is so close yet so far away.
As an side - I'm not singling out the P1K/P2K for cracked axles. They get more than their share of bad press for that but I have had as many if not more Bachmann and Athaern cracked axles - but at least they are readily available as parts.
And I'm with you on Bachmann - I have had very good results with used Bachmann Plus/Spectrum locos - and the new ones they are building now. A couple cracked axles but overall I can live with that - so far the experience I've had with their parts dept. has been great.
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on February 25 2014 5:20:11 PM
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 7:39:49 PM
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quote: quote:Nelson,
I had always believed that Athearn was a garden tool manufacturing company, And Irv built trains in the off season to keep his employees busy. It Appears that both of us are wrong. He started out manufacturing trains. From the late 40s to the 90s He provided a great line of trains at low cost. I believe he managed to do this with technics that are still valid today.
1. He designed different models that used standard parts where possible
2. He allowed the modeler to do final assemble of the models.
3. The models were designed to be massed produced.
4. The basic engineering was sound and could be fine tuned or run out of the box.
5. The model were undated and improved on a regular basis, but not changed every production run.
6. Most of his models were of mass produced prototypes with popular desirability.
7. He provided a source for parts for repair and upgrades.
8. His models were basic but pretty good models that could be upgraded as the individual desired.
9. His sales volume was high and induced many aftermarket items to improve his models.
10. He owned his production resources and had full control of them.
The grip about the Atearn RTR and Blue Box line being dated is true. The idea of building as many different models with as few parts as possible is still valid. The main problem with the Athearn line in the later years it was made here, was the quality of labor. The engineering was sound, but the units were not always assembled well. These problems can be minimized by modern manufacturing solutions.
It seems the overseas production is experiencing the same labor problems now, not to mention some whole production runs plagued by engineering problems.
It is time to apply Irv's solutions to a made in America Athearn line of affordable model trains.
Regards John ****************************
The English language is the only language in the world where "Fat Chance" & "Thin Chance" mean the same thing. <> Unknown
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 25 2014Â :Â 3:03:07 PM
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John - in my opinion your post should be etched in stone and delivered by air drop to every hobby manufacturer out there (including today's Athearn!). And YES, could and should be followed today.
It's becoming more RTR collecting than it is a hobby. They build, we buy, we put on shelf. Repeat. Parts? Huh?
Here's a good one I am discovering. Proto 1000/2000 are one of my favorite locomotive lines. Powerful, dependable (discounted the cracked axle deal) and smooth running. the 1000 has a bit less detail but to me still excellent and YES, add on more if you choose! The problem? PARTS. They don't exist. Want parts? Buy an extra locomotive.
That my friends is today's business model in producing locomotives. Don't like it? I don't have an answer for you. The companies are having the units built in China, they build them and that's it. No spares. On to the next great pre-order marvel....
Wow that's two rants for me this week. Above average
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â February 25 2014Â :Â 4:33:10 PM
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This is one thing I don't like about modern H0 trains. Extra parts. If something breaks off your train, tough. On most old H0 train boxes, they have how to maintain the train and all that stuff (they still do) and at the bottom of the page, they have a list of extra parts you could get whenever the train was made. They don't have that now. At least on most stuff. If something breaks off, better hope you can glue it back on, otherwise you'll either have to deal with it or buy a new locomotive or car in general and that can cost a lot of money depending on the manufacturer. That's called lack of quality control or warranty. I am getting tired of seeing the words "Made In China" on pretty much every modern thing I have. The words "Made In China" is anywhere you can find people which is pretty much everywhere in the entire world. I have also noticed how model trains made in China are lower quality overall. At least Accurail still makes stuff in America which I have a few of their products which happen to be freight cars.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 8:11:12 PM
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Well it's a sign of the times kovacs. Reading John's list of why Athearn was great sure made sense for manufacturing now as well as then.
I have seen in other "BB Rant" threads on other sites that it was US, the consumer, who share a lot in that blame - demanding more and more RTR with super-prototypical detail. As we have seen all that lovely product is indeed possible to supply to those of us eager for it, but it comes with a price tag as well. And really - keeping in mind I am no economics/business wizard - I don't see why there's not room for both facets of the hobby. Perhaps in time hobby manufacturers will see the market and try to tap back into it.
It's crazy, because getting back to the Proto1000/2000 example - these units are quality pieces, built to run and built to last. Great design and great detail even on the 1000s. Parts are parts, whether they are on an assembly line or getting put into boxes as spares. Why not go another inch and plan the spare parts into the equation?
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 9:26:46 PM
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quote:Well it's a sign of the times kovacs. Reading John's list of why Athearn was great sure made sense for manufacturing now as well as then.
I have seen in other "BB Rant" threads on other sites that it was US, the consumer, who share a lot in that blame - demanding more and more RTR with super-prototypical detail. As we have seen all that lovely product is indeed possible to supply to those of us eager for it, but it comes with a price tag as well. And really - keeping in mind I am no economics/business wizard - I don't see why there's not room for both facets of the hobby. Perhaps in time hobby manufacturers will see the market and try to tap back into it.
It's crazy, because getting back to the Proto1000/2000 example - these units are quality pieces, built to run and built to last. Great design and great detail even on the 1000s. Parts are parts, whether they are on an assembly line or getting put into boxes as spares. Why not go another inch and plan the spare parts into the equation?
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â February 25 2014Â :Â 8:11:12 PM
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That is definitely true. The Proto 1000/2000 locos are very good examples of how H0 scale trains should be. Good quality in almost every way. That's the way most companies should do it. Go for better quality engines. I mean most because they should have manufacturers that make cheaper stuff for people who are just getting into the hobby but that should be good quality too so that the beginner will want to stay in the hobby and eventually get the more expensive stuff. There should be something for everyone in model railroading whether it's customizing, making kits, buying RTR, or just getting the cheaper stuff like Life Like and Model Power. That's the way things should be in model railroading but we're probably never gonna get that, at least not anytime soon.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 10:48:02 PM
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Stewart Hobbies/Bowser is still a North American kit builder and supplier. Crisp parts and easy assembly... I feel they are easier to build than the Proto 1000 kits.
Athearn... bulky but built to last, blue box champions and live forever motors (almost like the Roco's)...
I've got a few Athearn newer yellow-box locomotives and freightcars... locomotives (my DEE SD40 and Demo GP35) sport the tiny headlight bulbs... details are upgraded from bluebox such as the handrails and fan housings...
But, I wouldn't touch a knife or paint brush to any of it...
But, Bluebox? I open up the exhaust and dash paint wherever it goes... and you can do it, too because it doesn't take a screw and screwdriver to remove the shells. Kadee's snap in quickly, and the railings can take a beating. Where I live, the dust... it's free weathering. A quick blow removes the excess and a light brushing distorts the finger prints. You would need to add lift rings and grab irons... but the shells could take it with out much worry.
The roofs of some diesels were also interchangeable... and you had to squeeze-fit those twin headlight lenses... basic strip-metal connections truck-motor-truck and body-grounding opposite side-frame mountings... and you could/can drill and solder your own wires for it all as well.
But, the present and future is also digital for individual control and decreased voltage... less humming powerpacks that seemed to last forever. And don't drop one on your foot.
Detail and readiness, convenience and convertibility... and we all foam at the mouth at the next train show, right? G'bye $200 in the first 5 minutes, cha-ching! Good thing the dealers don't have the electronic cash machines, right? We'd redefine "Power-shopping" if we felt the desire in our hearts and passions.
A shop near me is selling mass duplicate BB and MDC/Roundhouse kits for $5... I've bought what I wanted... the rest is over-redundant to me.
Gimmie a box-kit, screwdriver, Xacto blade, Kadee's, and some model cement... and 30 minutes later, it's rolling on my layout. That's what you can do with an Athearn BlueBox.
John
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 11:44:36 PM
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quote:Stewart Hobbies/Bowser is still a North American kit builder and supplier. Crisp parts and easy assembly... I feel they are easier to build than the Proto 1000 kits.
Athearn... bulky but built to last, blue box champions and live forever motors (almost like the Roco's)...
I've got a few Athearn newer yellow-box locomotives and freightcars... locomotives (my DEE SD40 and Demo GP35) sport the tiny headlight bulbs... details are upgraded from bluebox such as the handrails and fan housings...
But, I wouldn't touch a knife or paint brush to any of it...
But, Bluebox? I open up the exhaust and dash paint wherever it goes... and you can do it, too because it doesn't take a screw and screwdriver to remove the shells. Kadee's snap in quickly, and the railings can take a beating. Where I live, the dust... it's free weathering. A quick blow removes the excess and a light brushing distorts the finger prints. You would need to add lift rings and grab irons... but the shells could take it with out much worry.
The roofs of some diesels were also interchangeable... and you had to squeeze-fit those twin headlight lenses... basic strip-metal connections truck-motor-truck and body-grounding opposite side-frame mountings... and you could/can drill and solder your own wires for it all as well.
But, the present and future is also digital for individual control and decreased voltage... less humming powerpacks that seemed to last forever. And don't drop one on your foot.
Detail and readiness, convenience and convertibility... and we all foam at the mouth at the next train show, right? G'bye $200 in the first 5 minutes, cha-ching! Good thing the dealers don't have the electronic cash machines, right? We'd redefine "Power-shopping" if we felt the desire in our hearts and passions.
A shop near me is selling mass duplicate BB and MDC/Roundhouse kits for $5... I've bought what I wanted... the rest is over-redundant to me.
Gimmie a box-kit, screwdriver, Xacto blade, Kadee's, and some model cement... and 30 minutes later, it's rolling on my layout. That's what you can do with an Athearn BlueBox.
John
Originally posted by zebrails - February 25 2014 : 10:48:02 PM
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Although I'm not an expert at doing that sort of stuff at the moment, I understand what you mean.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 25 2014 : 11:47:12 PM
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quote:This may just be a rumor, but a fella that runs a local hobby shop commented the other day that there is talk about Athearn bringing back the Blue Box line. With Athearn under new management and the production being re-located to Texas it could be a possibility. I know that there are new incentives being tossed around in legislation to encourage manufacturers to bring production back to American shores. Perhaps this will work out for us lil'ol' railfans
Originally posted by metalsmith1Â -Â February 21 2014Â :Â 01:24:24 AM
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That's good to hear that Athearn is probably going to bring back the blue box kits! But that is probably just a rumor though. I can deal with it either way, though. I'll just continue getting the older stuff at train shows like I have been for a few years.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 01:17:49 AM
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John, I've heard from multiple sources -- including my LHS owner who's run the oldest MR shop in the country for almost 40 years -- that Irv was a metal manufacturer who made model trains as a peripheral business. Technically you may be right, since I assume only the trains were made under his last name, with any other products being produced under another incorporation, but those other businesses are where he made the bulk of his fortune. That's borne out by my experiences working at Northlandz in the late 90's: Mantua was very interested in the publicity and provided us with as much equipment and parts as we needed, while Athearn couldn't have cared less.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on February 26 2014 01:23:02 AM
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 10:01:38 AM
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quote:John, I've heard from multiple sources -- including my LHS owner who's run the oldest MR shop in the country for almost 40 years -- that Irv was a metal manufacturer who made model trains as a peripheral business. Technically you may be right, since I assume only the trains were made under his last name, with any other products being produced under another incorporation, but those other businesses are where he made the bulk of his fortune. That's borne out by my experiences working at Northlandz in the late 90's: Mantua was very interested in the publicity and provided us with as much equipment and parts as we needed, while Athearn couldn't have cared less.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â February 26 2014Â :Â 01:17:49 AM
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Huh, interesting.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 12:29:45 PM
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Nelson,
I have been unable to find any documents that Mr Athearn owned other companies. So a lack of evidence does not prove anything. My garden products and your automotive supplies are very distinct possibilities.
I did find and old article from the 80s that supports your assessment of him as a man. It seems he was a business man and capitalist first and model railroader last.
He built a lot of good trains and sold them at competitive prices. The business side of him and his mass produced trains is and was a factor in many of our hobby lives for a lot of years.
This is a PDF download and pretty big:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxa.yimg.com%2Fkq%2Fgroups%2F23648871%2F1953515840%2Fname%2FMRR%2BNov.81%2B-%2BAthearn%2BNew%2BPlant.pdf&ei=mRsOU4KeGIvpkAe1zYH4Bg&usg=AFQjCNG_om1MUL47lxRWULMoQyjBFDuw0g&sig2=VPxch5zGTbLBDRmOQF-DUw&bvm=bv.61965928,d.eW0
Regards, John ***********************
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. <> Nikola Tesla
Edited by - JRG1951 on February 26 2014 12:31:03 PM
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 1:13:31 PM
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I think its safe to say where I stand on Blue/yellow box kits.... this is most all of my collection minus train sets and various loose pieces without boxes.
Larry
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 1:22:28 PM
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quote:
I think its safe to say where I stand on Blue/yellow box kits.... this is most all of my collection minus train sets and various loose pieces without boxes.
Larry
Originally posted by SOU2645Â -Â February 26 2014Â :Â 1:13:31 PM
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 That's a huge collection.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 1:25:53 PM
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over 1000 pieces and growing from metal kits to modern day RTR and Genesis. Athearn's entire history can be seen in that picture.
Larry
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 2:55:09 PM
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John,
I'll have to ask at the LHS if they have any idea what name(s) Irv's other company or companies went under. Obviously it wasn't Athearn, because if that were the case a simple Google search would bring up a whole range of products, instead of just trains. And thank goodness Irv was a savvy businessman, because we have reaped the benefits in our hobby many times over. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think he's the one that revolutionized everything with the simple diesel drive we take for granted today (after going through a bazillion rubber bands and those wonky spur gear drives first ). He definitely brought sturdy all wheel drive, good detail and realistic metal handrails to the masses at a ridiculously low price.
Larry, all I can say is WOW! You should hang out a shingle.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on February 26 2014 2:55:49 PM
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 4:39:42 PM
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SOU2645 - I wanna "hurt" you for that Athern sign!
but nice collection tho
It prolly is how much train stuffs I actually have
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 4:48:14 PM
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| yikes,thats a great collection,nice to see,thanks for posting ken
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 4:54:41 PM
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quote:John,
I'll have to ask at the LHS if they have any idea what name(s) Irv's other company or companies went under. Obviously it wasn't Athearn, because if that were the case a simple Google search would bring up a whole range of products, instead of just trains. And thank goodness Irv was a savvy businessman, because we have reaped the benefits in our hobby many times over. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think he's the one that revolutionized everything with the simple diesel drive we take for granted today (after going through a bazillion rubber bands and those wonky spur gear drives first ). He definitely brought sturdy all wheel drive, good detail and realistic metal handrails to the masses at a ridiculously low price.
Larry, all I can say is WOW! You should hang out a shingle.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â February 26 2014Â :Â 2:55:09 PM
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Of course! I have an Athearn blue box Baldwin S-12 in Great Northern Empire Builder livery from 1974 that is very good quality and runs very smoothly and the price for it when it was brand new was $15! It was available for as much as you could get a Tyco diesel at the time which were not as good quality overall as the Athearns of the day. I mean, look at how hard it is to find a Tyco from the 70s that still works good and how easy it is to find an Athearn from the 70s that still works good.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on February 26 2014 9:23:49 PM
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 7:19:51 PM
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True, Kovacs. That's why my friends & I said goodbye to Tyco and most AHM diesels when we discovered the wonders of Athearn.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 9:07:26 PM
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quote:As we have seen all that lovely product is indeed possible to supply to those of us eager for it, but it comes with a price tag as well. And really - keeping in mind I am no economics/business wizard - I don't see why there's not room for both facets of the hobby.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707 - February 25 2014 : 8:11:12 PM
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One of the big costs in model railroading is tooling. If you can sell lots of copies of a thing, you can spread tooling costs thinner. That lowers the price and sells more product thus spreading the costs thinner still.
When only a few people still demanded shake the box kits or economical and durable models that look good from 3 feet (as opposed to 3 inches), those economics of scale went away and the product was dropped.
quote:
Parts are parts, whether they are on an assembly line or getting put into boxes as spares. Why not go another inch and plan the spare parts into the equation?
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â February 25 2014Â :Â 8:11:12 PM
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Back when Athearn, Roundhouse and Mantua were made here, they had good parts support while Rivarossi, for example, had shoddy parts support. It seems that it's much easier to stock parts when one company owns manufacturing, sales and parts support. Now, everything is partnerships between far away manufacturers and importers and retailers. Who, in this coalition, is going to tie up money in parts, many of which will eventually end up surplus and obsolete?
Just today, I saw a tag off of a sled from "Keeper Sporting Goods". It said: "If it's made by us, it's a keeper." It also said: "Made in China." I laughed immediately, thinking that it was probably not made by Keeper, but by another lowest bidder.
Give me back the days when companies were companies.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 9:17:49 PM
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quote:
Just today, I saw a tag off of a sled from "Keeper Sporting Goods". It said: "If it's made by us, it's a keeper."
Give me back the days when companies were companies.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - February 26 2014 : 9:07:26 PM
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Amen, brother!
That line about Keeper Sporting Goods reminds me of the HO Miracle Furniture Co. Building, that has a sign that says "If it's a good piece of furniture, it's a Miracle!"
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 9:22:12 PM
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quote:over 1000 pieces and growing from metal kits to modern day RTR and Genesis. Athearn's entire history can be seen in that picture.
Larry
Originally posted by SOU2645Â -Â February 26 2014Â :Â 1:25:53 PM
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Wow. Good job!
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 9:46:18 PM
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quote:
Back when Athearn, Roundhouse and Mantua were made here, they had good parts support while Rivarossi, for example, had shoddy parts support.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - February 26 2014 : 9:07:26 PM
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Shaggy, Rivarossi parts were hard to find at hobby shops, but they were readily available through AHM, and I placed a number of calls to Philly back then. They had service sheets and stocked a full line of spare parts, while many of today's high end importers & manufacturers leave you high and dry if something gives out. Bachmann is an exception, and I've heard really good things about BLI's service department, but they don't have parts for sale.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 26 2014 : 10:26:52 PM
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I don't see the dies coming back from China.
I have two and a half crates of BB kits and a crate of MDC, they're not too hard to come by and I sell a few almost every show.
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Posted - February 27 2014 : 03:44:13 AM
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| With the advent of 3-D printing I don't see the dies being an issue. It is feasibly cost effective to produce new dies at will and skip the mold making process altogether with a faster 3-D printer. It is reaching a point where models could be made to order without the need of keeping an inventory on hand and that the finished product could be delivered to your door in days with the exact details of the prototype you are modeling. This might become the future of the hobby with cottage industries popping up not unlike the early days of model railroading from which Irv himself came from. Manufactures like Athearn could still capitalize on this trend by producing universal drives that fit in a variety of models.
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Posted - February 27 2014 : 08:10:45 AM
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| That kind of defeats the idea of making cheap blue box kits from the old dies.
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Posted - February 27 2014 : 11:52:52 AM
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One- perhaps interesting- thing omitted from that old Athearn article is what was the MAN like? Was he ever interviewed personally? Did he have a family that had an interest in the railroad hobby business? Where was he from? etc...
We all know a lot about his products, but it would appear to be virtually nothing about him as a person. is there even a photo of him online?
Siouxlake Ron
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Posted - February 27 2014 : 3:11:25 PM
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Irv himself was interviewed for segments in the 1987 book "Greenbergs Guide to Athearn Trains". Few photos of him exist but he was featured in about a 1960 Athearn catalog on the cover. His wife Adora worked about the factory as did his brother.
Larry
PS. irv was born in Maine but he moved to Los Angeles when he was a teenager. He started his business in the basement of his mother's home.
Edited by - SOU2645 on February 28 2014 12:55:40 AM
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Posted - February 27 2014 : 5:15:48 PM
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quote:Shaggy, Rivarossi parts were hard to find at hobby shops, but they were readily available through AHM, and I placed a number of calls to Philly back then. They had service sheets and stocked a full line of spare parts.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â February 26 2014Â :Â 9:46:18 PM
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My personal experience was trying to order parts for the Rivarossi Heisler and having the importer send me a parts and price list for diesel parts. I am not sure whether the importer was still AHM or if it was Con Cor at the time, but I think it was Con Cor. Mantua and MDC, at that same time, sent me parts lists for the whole product line and I could order whatever I wanted.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 28 2014 : 11:35:31 AM
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quote:One- perhaps interesting- thing omitted from that old Athearn article is what was the MAN like? Was he ever interviewed personally? Did he have a family that had an interest in the railroad hobby business? Where was he from? etc...
We all know a lot about his products, but it would appear to be virtually nothing about him as a person. is there even a photo of him online?
Siouxlake Ron
Originally posted by siouxlake - February 27 2014 : 11:52:52 AM
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That would be interesting to learn about.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - February 28 2014 : 3:33:39 PM
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quote:Stewart Hobbies/Bowser is still a North American kit builder and supplier. Crisp parts and easy assembly... I feel they are easier to build than the Proto 1000 kits.
...
Gimmie a box-kit, screwdriver, Xacto blade, Kadee's, and some model cement... and 30 minutes later, it's rolling on my layout. That's what you can do with an Athearn BlueBox.
John
Originally posted by zebrails - February 25 2014 : 10:48:02 PM
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I'm gonna reiterate my point... http://www.bowser-trains.com/bowsernews.html
I think this is good news!
John
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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Posted - February 28 2014 : 4:23:34 PM
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John,
I agree, Ive heard the BS from the nay sayers about the U.S. not being able to compete with the Chinese. I've been to Shanghai. With a little innovation and a good deal of sweat, we can be very competitive soon and in a few years beat them at their own game. The question is will we try? The Chinese connection may cause the end of some suppliers before long. Bachmann has managed the connection well, but will that even last.
Regards, John ***********
If there hadn't been women we'd still be squatting in a cave eating raw meat,
because we made civilization in order to impress our girlfriends. <> Orson Welles
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Posted - February 28 2014 : 6:53:36 PM
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quote:John,
I agree, Ive heard the BS from the nay sayers about the U.S. not being able to compete with the Chinese. I've been to Shanghai. With a little innovation and a good deal of sweat, we can be very competitive soon and in a few years beat them at their own game. The question is will we try? The Chinese connection may cause the end of some suppliers before long. Bachmann has managed the connection well, but will that even last.
Regards, John ***********
If there hadn't been women we'd still be squatting in a cave eating raw meat,
because we made civilization in order to impress our girlfriends. <> Orson Welles
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 28 2014Â :Â 4:23:34 PM
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That is true. I sure hope we can get most products to be made in the USA again like it was 30, 40 years ago. It seems like overall, Chinese made products suck. They don't last long overall. I have some of them, they don't last. Especially model trains made in China.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on February 28 2014 6:53:56 PM
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Posted - March 16 2014 : 3:49:16 PM
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Train shows still seem to be the place to get blue box kits at the cheapest prices. I picked up 15 kits at the big show here in Atlanta yesterday for about 100 dollars - 4 being engine kits. 17 dollars netted me an Erie Lackawanna PA/PB1 set (dummies - mint/never out of box with old metal trucks) and an EL GP35 dummy (harder to find number 2564).... the EL PA's often sell 30 bucks or more on ebay. Guy I bought them from sold them for roughly their 1970's MSRP....
Larry
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Posted - March 17 2014 : 11:37:16 PM
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quote:Train shows still seem to be the place to get blue box kits at the cheapest prices. I picked up 15 kits at the big show here in Atlanta yesterday for about 100 dollars - 4 being engine kits. 17 dollars netted me an Erie Lackawanna PA/PB1 set (dummies - mint/never out of box with old metal trucks) and an EL GP35 dummy (harder to find number 2564).... the EL PA's often sell 30 bucks or more on ebay. Guy I bought them from sold them for roughly their 1970's MSRP....
Larry
Originally posted by SOU2645Â -Â March 16 2014Â :Â 3:49:16 PM
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That is 100% true. I've gotten an Athearn blue box freight car for free. How you ask? I was looking at it and the seller said I could have it for the price of nothing. It has knuckle couplings, nice detail, and it's weathered. It even has a box! Not the correct box but it is a box nonetheless. Here's a photo of the car and it's box. Sorry if I got a little excited there.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on March 17 2014 11:42:00 PM
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Posted - March 18 2014 : 03:05:08 AM
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I've seen that picture before... I'll grab a towel for you.
Zz
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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Posted - March 18 2014 : 10:31:40 AM
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quote:I've seen that picture before... I'll grab a towel for you.
Zz
Originally posted by zebrails - March 18 2014 : 03:05:08 AM
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I'm just showing an example of how cheap you can get Blue Box stuff. I also posted this picture into the COTW thread a while back.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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 Posted - March 18 2014 : 4:55:02 PM
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How about a LOONNGG Blue Box?
$30
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Posted - March 18 2014 : 5:57:30 PM
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quote:John,
I agree, Ive heard the BS from the nay sayers about the U.S. not being able to compete with the Chinese. I've been to Shanghai. With a little innovation and a good deal of sweat, we can be very competitive soon and in a few years beat them at their own game. The question is will we try? The Chinese connection may cause the end of some suppliers before long. Bachmann has managed the connection well, but will that even last.
Regards, John ***********
If there hadn't been women we'd still be squatting in a cave eating raw meat,
because we made civilization in order to impress our girlfriends. <> Orson Welles
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 28 2014Â :Â 4:23:34 PM
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The issue was never quality but cost. Chinese quality is very hit or miss but since it's labor force is cheap, it's more cost effective to produce these products there than in the US given that our standard of living and minimum wage laws are higher. It's like in the old days when you bought a General Electric product. It would last forever. Nowadays common appliances are cheap but don't last very long either. Quality sacrificed to bring cheap product into the market. At the end of the day, it's cheaper to produce this stuff internationally . Athearn/ horizon is making a fortune that way. If we wanted to, we could produce those models here and of better quality but at a higher price. I'll stick with blue box kits.
If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right.
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Posted - March 28 2014 : 5:13:12 PM
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Here's my Blue Box Baldwin S-12 from Athearn.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/kovacste000/20140328170351_IMG_0185.JPG
Remember how I said that it was from 1974? Well, when I found the 1975 parts sheet on the internet and compared it to mine, they were identical. The 1974 parts sheet looks different from the 1975 parts sheet. Here's a photo of mine.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/kovacste000/20140328170911_IMG_0238.JPG
Here's the 1974 parts sheet.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/kovacste000/20140328171204_athearns121975a.jpg
And the 1975 parts sheet.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/kovacste000/20140328171253_athearns121975.jpg
All credit goes to HOSeeker's Athearn page.http://www.hoseeker.net/athearn.htm By the way, I can post better pictures of parts of my S-12 part sheet if you want me too.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on March 28 2014 6:03:35 PM
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