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 Posted - December 30 2013 : 2:23:39 PM
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should i get it is the question,ken
all metal,extra linkage
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Posted - December 30 2013 : 3:05:38 PM
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Yes............two words, VALVE GEAR!
I buy, repair, and collect
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http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - December 30 2013 : 7:47:28 PM
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awesome...get it...
...a must have with the valve gear...
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Posted - December 30 2013 : 8:17:21 PM
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I got one with the valve gear last year and it runs great. The all metal tender (heavy) helps give it great electrical pick up. The only thing I don't like is the lack of stair rails on the tender. How do you know it is 1952 ? Mine came with the box and it is numbered 02970 (pretty low). The wire attachment to the tender is also a little different, it attaches with a nut and bolt on the tender floor, not via the draw bar screw. This little guy debuted in 1950 and I can only imagine how many were produced over the decades. If the cost is reasonable get it!
rich p
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Posted - December 30 2013 : 9:08:53 PM
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hi have rechecked,seems its the 49/50 version see link ken
http://www.hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=mantua040switcher1949.jpg
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 1:34:55 PM
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Hi Ken, I got intrigued by those slope back tenders when I discovered the railroad that I'm sort of trying to model (Colorado Midland) used a few of them during construction of the railway; squeezing them in places their bigger stuff couldn't yet get into. In the first photo, the CM 0-6-0 is helping with the construction of a small trestle near Douglas City, Colorado in 1887 (it amazes how much track was laid over seemingly impossible terrain from the time construction began in 1886) . . .
So . . . I got me a Mantua 0-6-0; most affordable and appealing to me at the time. MEW or Hallmark, I believe, make some CM replica 0-6-0's, but there seems to be an at least $500 price difference. And I like the way the Mantua is built. You can see in the photograph above, that it's a pretty good stretch to imagine the Mantua being a replica of the CM locomotive. Perhaps at some point, I might try and round up another one and mess with it (e.g., scratch a wooden cab, change the headlight, detailing the inside of the cab to camo the motor a bit, etc.) to make it a closer resemblance.
Presently, mine is a work in progress. There's a pair of Precision Scale Co. trucks on the tender (which do match the ones that Mantua made, and I have the Mantua trucks; they just need a tune up) that really make this thing run smooth and slow.
One thing I dig is the nice letter "M" on the front of the smoke box. I keep day dreaming about how it will look nicely painted with that M brassed-up against a nice mineral red number plate. Now . . . where did I put that elbow grease?
Regarding the rods and such; it seems to me that Mantua must have made some models with the more "complex" rods and linkage, and then some other models without? What do you think/know?
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 1:49:21 PM
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hi Barry the extra rods were a extra kit,and as such make the item rarer,or at least harder to find ken
http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua040shifterpg1.jpg
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 2:07:31 PM
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| Thanks Ken. I'll have to keep my eye out for that one.
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 3:18:23 PM
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Barry,
A few thoughts about 0-6-0's:
1) For sheer utility, the 0-6-0's you have are great little engines. I have two of them and they do most of the yard switching and peddler freight service on my layout. They just keep going and going.
2) The Mantua 0-6-0 is proportioned quite a bit differently than the CM engine. The CM engine had a narrow, between the wheels firebox allowing for a lower slung boiler. Model Die Casting made an engine that was more similar in proportion to the CM engine, but I have found MDC engines a little harder to keep going than the tougher Mantua products.
3) I have been on a waiting list at yardbird trains for quite some time, waiting for some valve gear to come along for Mantua 0-6-0's. This is the Walschaerts valve gear which is outside the main rods. The CM engine you are trying to emulate had Stephenson valve gear which is hidden inside the frame. It might be easier and better to just mock up the valve rods as in the picture of the CM engine.
4) That CM 0-6-0 is an interesting specimen. For a switch engine, it's really quite large. That headlight must be 5 feet tall, and the guy standing by it looks like he'd fit down the smoke stack. This is good, because the Mantua is no lightweight, either.
Anyway, that was an interesting posting. That 0-6-0 out on the main in work train service is something to think about.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 6:05:01 PM
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Hi Barry. You can get lucky on Ebay or I guess a show too, and find an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 with the valve gear at a reasonable price. Especially if the body is in bad shape. It really makes all the difference. Good luck.
rich p
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 12:45:22 AM
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| Yeah after looking at that valve gear, it certainly is interesting, but it does seem quite fussy. I guess I need to look at it much more closely and understand why it would be designed like that. And that is a very good point about me photographing the switcher on the main line; I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the feedback! I basically have a whole lot to learn about trains.
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 01:24:38 AM
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Ohh Barry 
Check out my latest acquisition. A heavily detailed Mantua VALVE GEARED 0-6-0 "big six"
$30 later and I'm still drooling 
Since this photo it's been thoroughly cleaned and runs pretty good. Need to repair the engineer sider timing rod and lube the motor up a bit.
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 08:52:56 AM
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Everyone else has chosen the Mantua 0-6-0 switcher for it base loco. Don't forget the Roundhouse 0-6-0 switcher. Biggest noticeable difference is the old type cylinders with the square box enclosed cylinder valves, and alligator crossheads. a simple addition adds the valve gear rod for the Joy valve gear system. Because the boiler is a little longer you can move forward the front pilot and mane a 2-6-0 out of it. It them becomes a road engine instead of a switcher.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on January 03 2014 08:58:14 AM
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 10:58:01 AM
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quote: quote:Ohh Barry
Check out my latest acquisition. A heavily detailed Mantua VALVE GEARED 0-6-0 "big six"
$30 later and I'm still drooling
Originally posted by SCVR66Â -Â January 03 2014Â :Â 01:24:38 AM
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If you went to buy the detail parts for that conversion, now, $30 would NOT cover it.
That's one sweet job of detailing.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 03 2014 : 10:57:24 AM
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Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 1:59:47 PM
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Certainly.......fortunately for me all the customizing which was an oil bunker, bass air compressor, brass whistle, brass steam exhaust, brass pop valves, and brass bell and brass air tanks were all done years ago.
A buddy of mine messaged me saying hey there's this guy who's been trying to sell this mantua steamer for months on this other forum with no luck.
I told him send me a picture and as soon as I saw the oil bunker, the valve gear, and added parts I knew I HAD to have it. And $30 is a good deal if you ask me.
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
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Hyde.
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Posted - January 03 2014 : 2:10:00 PM
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Well for what Barry wants to replicate yes A Roundhouse 0-6-0 would fit that bill better in terms of a base model, however the Mantuas do run better and are consistant under clean operating conditios.
I love the roundhouse 0-6-0s and own 2, and they are decent runners but they wouldn't beat a Mantua 0-6-0.
Looking at that photo the new Bachmann 0-6-0T porters have that same running gear. So you could probably take the frame off one and just build a new boiler and cab for it as well as find or build a tender.
May seem like a lot of work, but if you want it done right its good to go the extra steps.
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
Edited by - SCVR66 on January 03 2014 2:19:12 PM
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Posted - January 05 2014 : 07:32:33 AM
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| the mantua 0-4-0 shifter is mine will post pics as soon as it arrives ken
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Posted - January 05 2014 : 8:01:52 PM
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| Well Hyde, you did get me drooling. You sure got a bunch of nice brass detail with that. And Frank, that is interesting to hear that term "alligator crosshead". I do like those Roundhouse locomotives and they have some nice independent tender kits that I've seen; one in particular is like that behind Frank's and that looks much more like what I want to model than the Alco type (if I have that Alco business correct). I would like to get into doing a bit more with locomotives (other than paint) and looking at these great photos gets me closer to doing it.
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Posted - January 09 2014 : 12:13:51 PM
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PICS AS PROMISED KEN
GOING TO STRIP THE BODY DOWN oops back to normal
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Posted - January 09 2014 : 5:30:06 PM
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body/tender on its way to salvation ken
Edited by - catfordken on January 09 2014 5:47:24 PM
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Posted - January 09 2014 : 6:26:27 PM
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Very nice job Ken. The engine does not look too new. Get a jewel for the lights and they will look 100% better.
rich p
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 01:12:53 AM
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| Lookin' good Ken. I'm glad you're posting these photos. Yeah Rich, those jewels do a heck of a lot. Sometimes, the one in my switcher makes me think it actually has a headlight.
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 10:40:14 AM
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hi Richard p&Barry thanks,the idea behind this painting was to improve what i already had,ie,not new or old,something in between and a bit oily, ken
i am sure i have a big six kit in box so did not what to do as i usually do
Edited by - catfordken on January 10 2014 10:41:36 AM
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 11:32:03 AM
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Looks nice Ken. The way it should have in 1952.
Ray
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 11:43:16 AM
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thanks ray,i do my best with what i have,ie eyes,tools ok ken
Edited by - catfordken on January 10 2014 11:59:05 AM
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 12:06:19 PM
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| Even that vintage electrical wire (cloth covered?) looks to be part of the locomotive hydraulics. Cool. Bet that linkage was fun to get all tangled up trying to assemble it? Ken, did you ever happen to find out anything about the motor housings for these switchers?
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 12:24:37 PM
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hi barry,no info as yet, headlamp fitted ken
Edited by - catfordken on January 10 2014 12:47:13 PM
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 2:44:35 PM
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Ken, I see you also repainted the scratched up cylinder jacket. Did you also trim brush along the right of way so it would not just get scratched up again?
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 2:46:07 PM
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Just think - that little guy (or gal) is over 60 years old! This is why I love the 50's stuff.
rich p
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Posted - January 10 2014 : 4:58:40 PM
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Here is one repaired & detailed and then regrettably sold for ~$40 a while back:
I decides after that one, that was the last one I restore and detail just to sell. At least Auction Style.
I must have added $20 worth of brass castings & it included directional lighting from which I built the control panel using radio shack parts and stored it in the tender! Just filing and sanding the boiler took a few hours! I think I had ~6-8 hours into it if memory serves me correctly. That was like 4-5 years ago now, so maybe not...
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - January 11 2014 : 12:06:15 PM
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| Ken, are those brass trucks on the tender? Sean, that is some bunch of detail on that switcher; I'm wondering (since I remain pretty ignorant of the names of all the devices and mechanisms on steam locos yet, including cab-tender hook ups) . . . did most steam locomotives have a platform that facilitated movement between the cab and the tender?
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Posted - January 11 2014 : 12:18:19 PM
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hi barry,brass on postive side plastic on negative side,the platform/cab deck plates are standard on most locomotives with tender ken
http://www.bowser-trains.com/images/Misc/Cal%20Scale/Cal-Scale-Steam-Loco-Parts2.jpg
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Posted - January 11 2014 : 5:42:49 PM
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doing what shifters do best ken
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Posted - January 12 2014 : 03:00:18 AM
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You've had your shifter a good week and you use it more then I use my 5 shifters
1's really rare, 1s under restoration, but the other 3 are used when needed
Though when do HO tourist railroads really "need" to use steam?
When ridership is down to diesel excursions (I actually never run diesel excursions)
Steam rules!!
44 steamers and counting
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - January 12 2014 : 11:14:18 PM
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| Thanks for the link to the Bowser deck plate, Ken. I noticed that particular model is "hinged"; is that the way they were on many locomotives? Thanks, Barry
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 10:26:35 AM
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hi Barry,yes all tender locos had deck plates that were hinged to my knowledge ken
this guy sold me mine
http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/
Edited by - catfordken on January 13 2014 11:34:50 AM
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 11:33:43 AM
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quote:hi barry,yes all tender locos had deck plates that were hinged to my knowledge ken
Originally posted by catfordken - January 13 2014 : 10:26:35 AM
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The problem with using a hinged plate on most standard diecast models... The tender is usually charged from a different rail than the engine and having a hinged brass cab plate contacting both is sure to result in a short. The best thing to do is to not allow the hinge to operate freely and keep the deck stationary and above the tender deck somehow.
A support bracket is used pretty commonly for this.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 11:43:38 AM
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quote: Sean, that is some bunch of detail on that switcher; I'm wondering (since I remain pretty ignorant of the names of all the devices and mechanisms on steam locos yet, including cab-tender hook ups) .
Originally posted by Barry - January 11 2014 : 12:06:15 PM
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Barry,
This is the best reference book (bang for the buck) that you could ever buy when it comes to detailing steam locomotives:
Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume 1
Here is one listed on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-Railroader-Cyclopedia-Volume-1-1960-/331102401237
I have one and it is worth every penny!
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 11:46:49 AM
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| hi sean,barry,i bought one as a template,then made duplicates of thin plastic sheeting,ken
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 11:48:12 AM
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| sean i would snap one of those up as quick as a flash but postage to uk is dearer than a brass loco ken
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 1:01:59 PM
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quote:sean i would snap one of those up as quick as a flash but postage to uk is dearer than a brass loco ken
Originally posted by catfordken - January 13 2014 : 11:48:12 AM
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I suppose I could scan as a PDF and email a few pages, but like everything else.. tough to find the time scratch my arse let alone anything else... If I ever get to it or come across another copy, I'll let you know. I have seen the paper back versions sell pretty cheap. I think, if you can get it for under $30-$40 including shipping, it is well worth the money.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - January 13 2014 : 1:05:53 PM
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| agree with you sean,hardbacks weigh a ton ken
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Posted - January 14 2014 : 1:28:07 PM
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| Thanks Ken, Sean, I will get a copy of that book. And it seems like a deck plate could be scratched out without too much trouble? It just never occurred to me; my thinking was that the tender needed to be much closer to the locomotive than most models depicted. Seems like a great detail item to add.
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Posted - January 14 2014 : 2:38:39 PM
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Regarding deck plates, one needs to watch out for a couple of things:
If your railroad has abrupt changes in grade, it's best to make the plate to hinge or flex. The one shown in this thread looks pretty rigid, so on a torture track, the rear of the engine might sometimes be lifted by the tender.
Also, a look at the tender trucks shows that something unusual is going on electrically in the example shown. Typically, the engine is grounded to the right rail and the tender to the left rail, so a brass deck plate would be a short circuit between a metal locomotive and a metal tender. In that case, a layer of plastic insulating the plate from either the engine or tender would help.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 15 2014 : 8:03:28 PM
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| Thanks Don. Regarding "something going on" with the tender trucks on the "example shown", are you talking about how it looks like the paints off on the corner like from overheating with a short? Or something like that? I was kind of thinking of just making one out of styrene or cardboard?
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Posted - January 15 2014 : 10:28:35 PM
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quote:Thanks Don. Regarding "something going on" with the tender trucks on the "example shown", are you talking about how it looks like the paints off on the corner like from overheating with a short? Or something like that? I was kind of thinking of just making one out of styrene or cardboard?
Originally posted by Barry - January 15 2014 : 8:03:28 PM
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One truck picks up from the right rail and the other from the left. As originally designed, they pick up on the same side. It's possible that it has been modified so the tender is grounded to the same rail as the engine with the reversed truck insulated and supplying its power through a wire.
It's also possible that the truck is spun around accidentally and the tender is quite conventional and that the metal plate has some insulating material underneath it to prevent a short.
Personally, I like your approach of using styrene or cardboard and eliminating the electrical issue, entirely. I once added such a plate to a Mantua Hudson and made it out of photographic film. The material is springy enough that it flexes when the engine rises and falls relative to the tender.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 16 2014 : 05:59:48 AM
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hi barry,i got this one from yardbirds as in link above,ken
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Posted - January 16 2014 : 2:51:00 PM
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| Hey Ken, Yeah I've seen those on Yardbirds site and considered getting one, but until this recent discussion, I wasn't sure how to deal with it. It looks pretty nice, but just for the sake of "trial and error" and economy, I think I may try to scratch something cheap out first.
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