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 Posted - September 16 2013 : 10:55:49 PM
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Well, I've been working on my Bachmann 4-4-0 rewiring project for about a week. Harold M. would have it done and wore out in the time its taken me just to make and assemble the power pick-ups on the tender, and I'm still not sure it will work when I'm done. Time will tell, I guess
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 04:46:46 AM
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RB,
Re-wire, as you had wiring troubles or????? Putting back together a complete tender and loco?
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 06:41:09 AM
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quote:RB,
Re-wire, as you had wiring troubles or????? Putting back together a complete tender and loco?
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â September 17 2013Â :Â 04:46:46 AM
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I guess, but not really until I embarked on this project. Apparently, rhis is one of the older Bachmann models, and the pickup strips on the trucks were not working correctly. It all started when I tried to replace the wheels on the tender. After a lot of false starts, though, I think I finally have the pickup strips completed. The worst part has been finding wheelsets that pickup from the center axle. I had to make wipers for the backs of the wheels, but I finally got them built. If this works, the engine should have eight wheel pickup and ten-wheel return for less stalling and stuttering as the engine moves on the track. It's a nice littlle engine, and I hope I can make it work.
On another topic, I thought I might have found inexpensive replacements for Tyco traction tires in those little elastic bands that women use to pull their hair so tight it hurts. Sorry, no cigar, unless I can find really small rubber bands. More on that later, in the meantime my 4-8-0 actually runs better without the original tires
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 06:55:10 AM
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RB,
You can get the bands if they are for a 4-8-0 TYCO/Mantua from Yardbird Classic Trains, they carry them for the most part all the time, Unless Dan lost that supplier!
www.yardbirdclassictrains.com
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 5:56:44 PM
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Well, I got the Jupitor 4-4-0 running today. I'm still going to have to work with the wiring to get it right, but just running is a major accomplishment for me. I use telephone wire for the rewire. It's larger than the original wiring, so it has to work, at least for someone who knows what they are doing.
On the 4-8-0, I found some more tiny rubber bands, you know, the kind women use to tie their hair in knots so tight it hurts evertime they turn their heads. Anyway, small as they were, they were still a little large for the 4-8-0. They would probably work on larger diameter drivers, bu the engine runs better without the traction rings than it ever did with them.
Back to the 4-4-0, I put wipers on the drivers on the fireman's side, and lo and behold. The headlight actually works, even without a connection from the motor in the tender. As oon as I find some fine wire, I may tackle this engine again.
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 4:04:43 PM
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Well, I've had my Bachmann 4-4-0 operational a couple of times, now, but tore it down because I was unsatisfied with my "skill", or lack thereof. I'll keep trying though, until I either ruin the engine from my misguided efforts or finally get it right.
My latest idea is a can motor. I did a little searching on the web last night and found what seem to be suitable candidates for the project, but have to look into them more. My idea is to put the motor in the tender and drive the locomotive with the driveshaft, either the one that came with the engine or one of my own design.
Right now, my emphasis is on the motor. Has anyone done this, and what motor did you use? All comments and criticism is welcome.
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 7:23:53 PM
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| Hey RB, Post some photos so we can see what you're talking about. I don't think you're going to ruin anything if you just take your time. Give 'em heck!
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 8:02:00 PM
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Here are a few iffy pictures of the repower and rewire I did on mine a few years ago.
This just shows the disk tray motor I used in the tender, but I also soldered a length of NWSL flex wire directly to the lead truck and ran it back to the tender so that everything is connected electrically, giving the loco a long electrical wheelbase. It no longer relies on just 2 wheels of the lead truck for one side of the bulb pickup, a dumb design if ever there was one.
The hard part was running the wire between the metal frame and the boiler shell... it's a very tight fit.
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 8:25:00 PM
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quote:Hey RB, Post some photos so we can see what you're talking about. I don't think you're going to ruin anything if you just take your time. Give 'em heck!
Originally posted by Barry - September 23 2013 : 7:23:53 PM
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I'll try Barry: Maybe someone can figure out what I'm talking about. I'm taking a break from it right now, just to catch my breath, but you're right, I won't be able to leave it alone for too long.
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 8:32:11 PM
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quote:Here are a few iffy pictures of the repower and rewire I did on mine a few years ago.
This just shows the disk tray motor I used in the tender, but I also soldered a length of NWSL flex wire directly to the lead truck and ran it back to the tender so that everything is connected electrically, giving the loco a long electrical wheelbase. It no longer relies on just 2 wheels of the lead truck for one side of the bulb pickup, a dumb design if ever there was one.
The hard part was running the wire between the metal frame and the boiler shell... it's a very tight fit.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 23 2013Â :Â 8:02:00 PM
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Nickel Plate;
One of the big problems I'm having is getting the trucks on the tender to swivel freely without binding. The way I see it now, if I can get the tender wheels to pick up current, and the locomotive wheels to return it, I'll have basically an eight wheel pickup and return system. I'm having a problem making wipers so the wheels will turn freely, as well.
ow did you solve these problems? My latest brainstorm is to have phosphor bronze wipers coontacting a phosphor broanze strip on the bottom of the tender floor, ala' a trolley pole. Do you have any photos of the bottom of your tender that I could use for inspiration?
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 8:44:04 PM
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Robert, I didn't do anything to modify the existing tender pickup. I left the axle wipers as they were, so that 2 wheels on each truck pick up from opposite rails. You can see one side of the motor going to each of the truck screws, and this is reinforced by more solid loco pickup. Were the original wipers missing, or are you trying to make something like Harold's Kadee spring pickups? He just mounts those modified springs on top of the truck cross braces and runs a pickup wire to each one.
If I'm picturing it correctly, trying to get fancy with a wiper between the pickups and tender floor is needlessly complicated and a recipe for frustration with a tender of this size and weight.
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 8:44:16 PM
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quote:RB,
You can get the bands if they are for a 4-8-0 TYCO/Mantua from Yardbird Classic Trains, they carry them for the most part all the time, Unless Dan lost that supplier!
www.yardbirdclassictrains.com
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â September 17 2013Â :Â 06:55:10 AM
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I also saw where some one had filled the traction tire slots with JB Weld epoxy. I thought about doing that, since I am not to impressed with the traction tires, anyway
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Posted - September 24 2013 : 12:40:05 AM
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| Hey Nelson, Thanks for posting those photos of the Rogers loco that you did the repower on. That was interesting to see it done in the tender. Did you notice a super difference in performance after the repower? A significant difference? RB, I didn't think much of traction tires either and now I think they may be just one part of the answer for particular drive trains. There is no doubt a way to quantify the difference they make, but I did find that when I was trying to get my 4-6-0 to pull a consist of brass cars, traction tires (in addition to cleaning the track and cleaning the wheels) stopped the load bearing wheel spinning. But, who knows, maybe some JB Weld would be a better traction tire than a rubber ring. And you can always dig it out.
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Posted - September 24 2013 : 10:36:14 PM
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quote:Hey RB, Post some photos so we can see what you're talking about. I don't think you're going to ruin anything if you just take your time. Give 'em heck!
Originally posted by Barry - September 23 2013 : 7:23:53 PM
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I took some photos today, but that's as far as I got. I'll see about uploading them tomorrow. I think I used to have a site where I could upload photos, but I don't think it's still active. I did some more work on the engine today, and got it running, but the driveshaft needs some improvement.
I sure appreciate the help I've been getting on this forum. I'm going to go to the end and see if there's anything new.
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Posted - September 24 2013 : 10:42:13 PM
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quote: quote:Hey RB, Post some photos so we can see what you're talking about. I don't think you're going to ruin anything if you just take your time. Give 'em heck!
Originally posted by Barry - September 23 2013 : 7:23:53 PM
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I took some photos today, but that's as far as I got. I'll see about uploading them tomorrow. I think I used to have a site where I could upload photos, but I don't think it's still active. I did some more work on the engine today, and got it running, but the driveshaft needs some improvement.
I sure appreciate the help I've been getting on this forum. I'm going to go to the end and see if there's anything new.
RBNicholson
Originally posted by RBNicholson - September 24 2013 : 10:36:14 PM
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Well, nothing new. What I've got in mind for the drive shaft is to have it spring-loaded and expandable, so it will stay engaged. I had to remount the drive shaft socket on the motor today because it would not stay engaged. More later, it's bedtime, and my horrible typing, spelling and proofreading skills are taking a downer
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 11:28:00 AM
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quote:Robert, I didn't do anything to modify the existing tender pickup. I left the axle wipers as they were, so that 2 wheels on each truck pick up from opposite rails. You can see one side of the motor going to each of the truck screws, and this is reinforced by more solid loco pickup. Were the original wipers missing, or are you trying to make something like Harold's Kadee spring pickups? He just mounts those modified springs on top of the truck cross braces and runs a pickup wire to each one.
If I'm picturing it correctly, trying to get fancy with a wiper between the pickups and tender floor is needlessly complicated and a recipe for frustration with a tender of this size and weight.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 23 2013Â :Â 8:44:04 PM
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Nickel Plate, you're right, I have beeen engaging in a siege of frustration and disappointment. Las tnight I made new phosphor bronze pickup strips and decided to go the route you mentioned. The next thing I have to do is find out if I can mount pickup shoes on the drivers I have a description of what I did, and what I want to do with the drive shaft, in an earlier post on this thread. I also took some photos yesterday, but haven't had time to prepare them for posting.
One thing I did discover, telephone wire is good for replacing the original wiring, although a little larger in diameter. Best of all it comes in solid or stranded, and responds well to my primitive methods of using it.
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 11:38:12 AM
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quote:Hey Nelson, Thanks for posting those photos of the Rogers loco that you did the repower on. That was interesting to see it done in the tender. Did you notice a super difference in performance after the repower? A significant difference? RB, I didn't think much of traction tires either and now I think they may be just one part of the answer for particular drive trains. There is no doubt a way to quantify the difference they make, but I did find that when I was trying to get my 4-6-0 to pull a consist of brass cars, traction tires (in addition to cleaning the track and cleaning the wheels) stopped the load bearing wheel spinning. But, who knows, maybe some JB Weld would be a better traction tire than a rubber ring. And you can always dig it out.
Originally posted by Barry - September 24 2013 : 12:40:05 AM
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Barry:
What fascinates me about the 4-6-0 is how the one on Little House on the Prairie slips just a bit when getting under way. My JWBowker does the same thing with a few cars and I want to emulate that with the 4-6-0 and the 4-8-0, aqnd the Jupitor 4-4-0. Early trials when I have this locomotive operational indicates that it will do it, so I'm anxious in a way to get it running. Other priorities are getting in the way currently, so it may be a little slow for a while.
I notice on Ebay this morniing that I won a Mantua Drover's caboose based on the 1860 combine. I wanted that one, and I notice a Mantua General bid that is about up, too.
I'll try to get those photos posted.
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 2:36:49 PM
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RB, just be sure to use stranded wire for lengths between loco and tender, and that it has enough flex. The solid stuff is fine where no flex is needed, and can even be an advantage if you want to make sure its stays put & out of the mechanism. Old electronics is a good source for small stranded wire.
Barry, yes, there is a huge difference in performance. The disk tray motor turned out to be a reasonable RPM, so it the 4-4-0 can crawl at a slow and steady speed. The only noise is from the worm inside the cab area, which I can't do anything about because Bachmann did a lousy job molding it.
The second photo shows the other more typical flat can I was considering for the job, but it was actually quite a bit faster and noisier. Since the original was a pancake motor, it also made the installation stupidly simple. Just two small pieces of double-sided outdoor tape, which is better than it sounds... it doesn't let go until you want it to, believe me. RC guys use similar stuff to mount servos.
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 4:01:27 PM
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quote:RB, just be sure to use stranded wire for lengths between loco and tender, and that it has enough flex. The solid stuff is fine where no flex is needed, and can even be an advantage if you want to make sure its stays put & out of the mechanism. Old electronics is a good source for small stranded wire.
Barry, yes, there is a huge difference in performance. The disk tray motor turned out to be a reasonable RPM, so it the 4-4-0 can crawl at a slow and steady speed. The only noise is from the worm inside the cab area, which I can't do anything about because Bachmann did a lousy job molding it.
The second photo shows the other more typical flat can I was considering for the job, but it was actually quite a bit faster and noisier. Since the original was a pancake motor, it also made the installation stupidly simple. Just two small pieces of double-sided outdoor tape, which is better than it sounds... it doesn't let go until you want it to, believe me. RC guys use similar stuff to mount servos.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 25 2013Â :Â 2:36:49 PM
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Thanks, Nelson
There's some photos of my efforts in a separate topic. They didn't all print, but maybe enough to demonstrate what I'm doing. At least the engine is running, now. Next will be to see if I can put a can motor in it.
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 5:14:10 PM
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Nelson,
That small can motor is an interesting little critter....where or what did that come from? Mount and all looks interesting.
This whole thread looks good tho, I like the way its going as far as the use of either of the motors....
I just been trying to figure out a way to get rid of that large shaft from the cab, to the tender... thinner, to be less seen!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 6:21:50 PM
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John, it's been a long time, but the flat can was part of a disk drive, probably the tray loading motor.
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 12:20:21 AM
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do you remember the time frame and the model type it came out of?
I ask as I get stuff like that all the time to rip apart, and will keep my eyes out for the brand of machine, and the "era" with a time frame......See?
Good to know tho!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 01:17:52 AM
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John,
Heck no.  It's much more typical to find the pancake type I did use than a flat can. I have no idea what make or model it came from.
That size is used commonly in trunk mount CD changers; I know the one in my old car had a few in it. Since I never scrapped it, I have no idea what their voltage ranges and RPM's were. All Electronics was selling CD changer mechs like that a few years ago with various motors, but haven't in a while. Just keep looking.
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 06:44:05 AM
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DAMN! That would have been a dead give away on those, but ohh well, I'll keep searchin'!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 12:53:53 PM
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quote:do you remember the time frame and the model type it came out of?
I ask as I get stuff like that all the time to rip apart, and will keep my eyes out for the brand of machine, and the "era" with a time frame......See?
Good to know tho!
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â September 26 2013Â :Â 12:20:21 AM
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Don't forget your friends with those junk can motors
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 1:55:47 PM
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Well I got to ask, Robert, Rob, or Bob ? Which do I address you as?
Anyway, will do remember, I have a lot as is so.... BUT, a lot I have are either large, extremely, or small where they could almost (but, not quite) fit N scale....I want to build a supply of HO scale sized motors and I have been working on that!
That being said, I do share......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 7:32:25 PM
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quote:Well I got to ask, Robert, Rob, or Bob ? Which do I address you as?
Anyway, will do remember, I have a lot as is so.... BUT, a lot I have are either large, extremely, or small where they could almost (but, not quite) fit N scale....I want to build a supply of HO scale sized motors and I have been working on that!
That being said, I do share......
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â September 26 2013Â :Â 1:55:47 PM
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Any of the above, I've been called worse, believe me. For 36 years i was called a locomotive engineer - can you believe the nerve? I have several can motors, as well. I just ordered a Buy it Now for $10.00 on Ebay. It looks like it might fit this Bachmann 4-4-0 that's giving me fits. I actually had it running beautiful last night, but you know how it is, "just one more tweek of the screw". Anyway, you can call me "RB", and I'll probably answer.
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 3:12:33 PM
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RB,
Sounds good! LOL @ "I've been called worse" Makes 2 of us with the "Engineer". Where I grew up, and to this day some still address me as the "Patton Engineer" as my last name is Patton.............Funny tho, it "stuck" and its still there, today...
Were you an "Engineer" tho? OR just because of the Model Trains? Mine, was the models as everyone knew what my hobby was.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 5:40:26 PM
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quote:RB,
Sounds good! LOL @ "I've been called worse" Makes 2 of us with the "Engineer". Where I grew up, and to this day some still address me as the "Patton Engineer" as my last name is Patton.............Funny tho, it "stuck" and its still there, today...
Were you an "Engineer" tho? OR just because of the Model Trains? Mine, was the models as everyone knew what my hobby was.....
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â September 27 2013Â :Â 3:12:33 PM
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EM,
I was a locomotive engineer on 7 different railroads and four different properties, if you count the ILLINOIS CENTRAL twice. I always wanted to work on the ROCK ISLAND, but the closest I ever got to that was on the KEOKUK JUNCTION. They ran the ROCK terminal trackage in Keokuk, and had an ex-P&PU NW-2 with a ROCK ISLAND replacement battery door. I actually crossed over from train service to engine service in 1977. My favorite saying after that was to pull up to a switch and tell the jealous brakeman, "They don't pay me to throw switches in the rain anymore!" Always got a response.
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 8:41:42 PM
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Well, the 4-4-0 is beginning to look like it got caught in the crossfire in the Battle for Atlanta. Now, I need some tender truck sideframes to fix another SNAFU. If anybody's got any spares, give me a head's up.
I tried to run a wire to the lead pilot truck, ala' Nelson, but finally pulled it out. Bent the sander pipes in the process, so something else to repair. I'm going to see if I can't run the wire under the walkways in a way it won't be noticeable. Other than that, maybe I don't even need it, after some testing today that showed the drives I wired are actually grounded. More testing is in order.
I may be able to set the tender up so all wheels pickup current, and all locomotive wheels can serve as ground. That would give a long current wheelbase, with four wheels on the tender picking up current, and four wheels on the locomotive serving as a return. I redid the phosphor bronze pickup strips, and now have phosphor bronze spring wires doing the honors. Looks like a more stable arrangement, with much less problems with breakage, etc.
Right now, I set the project aside for the night. Guess I'll go up and watch the end of Little House on the Prairie with the wife.
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Posted - September 29 2013 : 09:25:51 AM
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Well, the 4-4-0 is still looking like it got caught the crossfire at the Battle for Atlanta. I still need a set tender truck sideframes (or trucks, preferably 2 pair so I can continue to mess up) to fix my latest unsolvable SNAFU. If anybody's got any spares, give me a head's up.
Otherwise, I may order a set of Kadee archbar trucks and turn my head when the locomotive goes by me so I don't see the discrepancy,
Also, received my $10.00 can motor from a seller on Ebay. This thing is so small I think I could put two in tandom in the 4-4-0 tender. I can't wait to try it out.
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