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 Posted - September 25 2013 : 2:19:02 PM
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Bear with me, I'm going to try and upload some photos of my 4-4-0 project, and maybe even add some captions.
 Well, here's the first one. This is the bottom of the engine. I have added pickup strips to the drivers here. If everything works out right, this should increase the number of wheels returning current to eight, including the headlight circuit
This is the top of the tender with the body shell removed. I have added wires to the motor from both tender trucks. The wire extending from below the front of the tender base will attach to a phosphor bronze strip I have added to strengthen the drawbar, because the screw mounting hole broke on the leading end
A view of the bottom of the tender frame, showing an unsuccessful pair of phosphor bronze pickup strips I fabricated. I built a new set to fit on top of the truck bolsters as did the originals. Also visible in the photo are the .060 by .125 journal extensions I added to the inside of the truck sides (on the right) to take up extra slack in the wheelsets.
This view shows how I lengthened the tender wheelbase to accomodate the 33" wheelsets that I used in place of the original Bachmann wheelsets. I may do something like this with the pilot truck on the front of the locomotive, once I have it running satisfatorily
Another view of the top of the tender base. Here, the split in the front drawbar mounting hole that necessitated the phosphor bronze holding strip is visible. Also, the drawbar must be fastened to the tender before the front truck is attached.
This is what I have done, thus far. I want to see if I can add pickup strips to the opposite drivers on the locomotive to increase the number of wheels picking up current. I will definitely add another ground wire to the headlight circuit as Nickel Plate described. I also want to improve the front tender truck mounting screw for ease of attaching pickup wires and removing the truck for servicing, etc.
RBNicholson
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 8:17:27 PM
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quote:Bear with me, I'm going to try and upload some photos of my 4-4-0 project, and maybe even add some captions.
Well, here's the first one. This is the bottom of the engine. I have added pickup strips to the drivers here. If everything works out right, this should increase the number of wheels returning current to eight, including the headlight circuit
This is the top of the tender with the body shell removed. I have added wires to the motor from both tender trucks. The wire extending from below the front of the tender base will attach to a phosphor bronze strip I have added to strengthen the drawbar, because the screw mounting hole broke on the leading end
A view of the bottom of the tender frame, showing an unsuccessful pair of phosphor bronze pickup strips I fabricated. I built a new set to fit on top of the truck bolsters as did the originals. Also visible in the photo are the .060 by .125 journal extensions I added to the inside of the truck sides (on the right) to take up extra slack in the wheelsets.
This view shows how I lengthened the tender wheelbase to accomodate the 33" wheelsets that I used in place of the original Bachmann wheelsets. I may do something like this with the pilot truck on the front of the locomotive, once I have it running satisfatorily
Another view of the top of the tender base. Here, the split in the front drawbar mounting hole that necessitated the phosphor bronze holding strip is visible. Also, the drawbar must be fastened to the tender before the front truck is attached.
This is what I have done, thus far. I want to see if I can add pickup strips to the opposite drivers on the locomotive to increase the number of wheels picking up current. I will definitely add another ground wire to the headlight circuit as Nickel Plate described. I also want to improve the front tender truck mounting screw for ease of attaching pickup wires and removing the truck for servicing, etc.
RBNicholson
Originally posted by RBNicholson - September 25 2013 : 2:19:02 PM
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Finally got the Jupitor running this evening. I'll take some photos tomorrow and explain what I did. It runs extremely quiet until I put the tender shell on it, then it makes some noise. I'm not sure what that is, but I'll check it out and see if I can trace it down. A major accomplishment, for me anyway, and I don't think I could have done it without the advice and insight of the forum members here.
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 25 2013 : 11:42:31 PM
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Nice modifications! I think you'll not only find that the added pickups eliminate some stalling, but that they also keep the wheels cleaner longer. Arcing seems to cook dirt onto the wheels and create an insulating crust that creates more arcing and makes the problem worsen faster still. By picking up current in as many places as you can, you dramatically slow the death spiral of dirt on the wheels.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 12:29:04 AM
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This is true, but justthe "running" facor of a locomotive, keeps dirt off the wheels and keeps it from "crusting" onto the drivers "fillet"....just that friction is all it takes, UNLESS you have long lines of track, with perfectly soldered joints, and as smooth as glass, you won't get the same effect, but its unlikely due to that the loco's when running sway from one rail to the other all but itself from the pushing force of the motor driving it.
NOW, granted extra pick ups aids a few things, jerky running, on not so wired rails, un-electro frogs of turnouts, turnout points, and last but not least, sections of dirty track......See flywheels, even tho, are for "power" ALSO aid in the electrical field too, will keep the motor, spinning long enough to "pull" power again when its not there.....Then you don't have a jerky "stop" you have a jerky, take off when it gains power again! BUT that's a story for another time! 
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 01:44:10 AM
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RB, I like the wipers you made for the loco -- very nice job. I would narrow the tender wipers down; depending on their thickness they could be too stiff and add too much friction. I would also make the wipers press down on the axles so they don't add pressure to the journals.
What wheelsets did you use? They look a lot better than the stock ones with the oversized flanges.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 07:40:28 AM
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quote:RB, I like the wipers you made for the loco -- very nice job. I would narrow the tender wipers down; depending on their thickness they could be too stiff and add too much friction. I would also make the wipers press down on the axles so they don't add pressure to the journals.
What wheelsets did you use? They look a lot better than the stock ones with the oversized flanges.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 26 2013Â :Â 01:44:10 AM
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Nelson:
Those are Bachmann 33" wheels I picked up off of Ebay. I had to move the trucks out to lengthen the wheelbase so they would clear the motor.
The quiet running? It was beautiful while it lasted, but the engine started grinding again just before I gave up and went to bed. I did make a driveshaft from plastic tubing, and it did the same thing. I'm going to try and make a sprung driveshaft from plastic tubing that can self-adjust and maybe keep the slack out. That seems to be one source of the noise.
I also have a problem with the wipers. they seem to be too brittle and prone to beakage. What would we do if we didn't have problems to solve, right? This is a nice little engine, though, and I'll keep working at it until I get it right.
I also want to experiment and see if I can get the drivers to pick up and return current. I'm learning things as I go, though, mainly what don't work, so I guess it isn't all waste. I'm also improving my typing skills!
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 10:36:46 AM
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Two thoughts about the brittle pickups:
1) I noticed that you used phosphor bronze to repair the drawbar. If your pickup wipers are phosphor bronze, that's the right metal (nice and springy). If they're some other metal, you might want to try phosphor bronze.
2) There appear to be creases in the metal. Metal fatigue at a bend has to do with a ratio between the thickness of the metal and the radius of the bend. Since a crease has a radius of nearly zero, it's almost a break right away. Anywhere you can make a fold more of a gentle curve, that'll help.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 12:47:21 PM
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quote:Two thoughts about the brittle pickups:
1) I noticed that you used phosphor bronze to repair the drawbar. If your pickup wipers are phosphor bronze, that's the right metal (nice and springy). If they're some other metal, you might want to try phosphor bronze.
2) There appear to be creases in the metal. Metal fatigue at a bend has to do with a ratio between the thickness of the metal and the radius of the bend. Since a crease has a radius of nearly zero, it's almost a break right away. Anywhere you can make a fold more of a gentle curve, that'll help.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - September 26 2013 : 10:36:46 AM
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Shaggy:
That's what I figured out as I was falling asleep last night, so next on my agenda is to add phosphor bronze wipers to aid the strips in doing their business. You may be right, that what I'm using may not be phosphor bronze at all, but some cheap imitator. I have some thin brass shimstock that I may try, if the wiper wires don't work.
As far as pick up and return, I think I can modify the engine so the tender wheels pickup current and the locomotive drivers return it, using some of Nelson's technique for running a feeder to the headlight ground circuit. I know that the drivers with installed wipers are "hot", so to speak, because occasionally the headlight lights and I have no feeder from the tender at this time. I was going to try and put constant lighting on the locomotive, but do to the cramped working area, I think I'll pass on that one. I'm not even sure how I would get to the headlight to change it.
I'm going to try and take some more photos today.
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 12:49:54 PM
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It takes exactly 72 pancakes to shingle a dog.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - September 25 2013 : 11:42:31 PM
[/quote]
Does that include the ones the dog eats in the process?
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 26 2013 : 10:32:04 PM
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That's what I love about that quote! It's so dogmatically exact, and yet everything in the process is variable.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 01:51:45 AM
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| Ah . . . time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 09:45:43 AM
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quote:Ah . . . time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.
Originally posted by Barry - September 27 2013 : 01:51:45 AM
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You're up awfully late, aren't you? You're not stealing pancakes (HO, of course) from Shaggy's dog, are you?
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 27 2013 : 09:55:06 AM
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quote: quote:Two thoughts about the brittle pickups:
1) I noticed that you used phosphor bronze to repair the drawbar. If your pickup wipers are phosphor bronze, that's the right metal (nice and springy). If they're some other metal, you might want to try phosphor bronze.
2) There appear to be creases in the metal. Metal fatigue at a bend has to do with a ratio between the thickness of the metal and the radius of the bend. Since a crease has a radius of nearly zero, it's almost a break right away. Anywhere you can make a fold more of a gentle curve, that'll help.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - September 26 2013 : 10:36:46 AM
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I'm going to try and take some more photos today, which is now 09/27/13.
Originally posted by RBNicholson - September 26 2013 : 12:47:21 PM
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Shaggy,
I've been re-thinking those bottom mounted pick-up strips, and I'm wondering if I can't make them from [supposedly] phosphor bronze wire. I ws also checking circuits this morning and found that the twi drivers I attached Kade strips to are actually grounded. If that's the case, I should be able to make the tender all pick-up, and the engine all return. I can make put the headlight in parallel, or leave it in series, for the dimmer appearance of a 19th Century headlight. Keep tuned, I may actually finish this engine someday; if not, it's been a good proving and training appearance
RBNicholson
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Posted - September 28 2013 : 10:52:09 PM
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The AHM/Rivarossi Dockside locomotive used phosphor bronze wipers for the insulated side drivers, so wire pickups are a very tried and true concept.
Carpe Manana!
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