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 Posted - September 11 2013 : 7:05:16 PM
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I have a bunch of vintage BL-2 engines, and I successfully restored one by using a 5-pole version of the motor, most of the BL-2's had 3-poles, but some real early ones use a 5-pole, and this motor was also used in other engines. If anyone has any 5-pole versions in their junkbox they wish to sell, I'd be willing to buy them. Here's some pictures to show what I'm talking about.
 
In the lower picture, you can see the difference in the spacing between the armature winding arms, the 5-pole on the right is much closer than the 3-pole on the left. Obviously the 5-pole runs much smoother, and less jerky, than the 3-pole. This is an easy upgrade, and makes the engine that much better. I"m sure the 3-pole motors were easier to produce,and cheaper, due to 40% less arms to deal with.  Anyway, I know some of you may have some of these , so I figure I'd throw out a plea if anyone has any they'll part with. IT's an easy swap, as everything is the same except the armature, no housing changes, one reason I did it was that the 5-pole motor had a damaged housing, and I was able to fit it into the 3-pole housing easily and reassemble it. THAT Bl-2 runs much nicer than any of the other originals, other than the one I found with the 5-pole motor.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 30 2013 : 10:28:41 PM
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The later 3 pole versions are incredibly noisy. I've only one that I came across that's about as quiet as the 5 pole, so I guess the bearings are snug enough to keep the shaft from rattling inside them. I should probably have it bronzed. /tyco/forum/uploaded/NickelPlate759/icon_mi_12.gif
I don't have any 5 poles I can spare, but if you want to try a retrofit you can use the same size motor I used for my 3 pole motor in the Mehano RS2 & Alco S2. I removed the old bearing from the bottom plate, and glued the new motor to it. It runs slow and smooth, and will pace the RS2 with same motor perfectly. It just cleared the shell in the C-Liner, so I assume it will in the BL2 as well. The shells on both are thick, so you can grind quite a bit of plastic away if necessary.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/NickelPlate759/20130930214956_DSCF0868_cr800x600.jpg
Here's an equivalent on eBay. I bought a batch of them, and I think they are better than the Mabuchi FK-130's. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271241591022
You'll also need a 2mm -> 2.4mm adapter sleeve, which is available from NWSL or A-Line. The shaft is shorter, but it should be long enough to hold the worm with a little CA. I also recommend thrust washers between the worm & truck.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - October 01 2013 : 4:23:34 PM
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Jameco Electronics stocks these motors. I have used these on a few projects.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&productId=231732&catalogId=10001&CID=PDF133CAT
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131001161830_PC130SF.jpg
These are $3.00, with free shipping the ebay motors may be cheaper
Regards, John *******************************************
When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away. <> Clint Smith
Edited by - JRG1951 on October 01 2013 4:28:45 PM
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Posted - October 01 2013 : 10:54:26 PM
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Thanks for the link, John. Looks like it's a draw with shipping, but at least that gives us a backup source. When I bought them from the guy on eBay they were only $16.50 for 5, but he raised the price after that.
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Posted - October 02 2013 : 3:28:42 PM
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I feel ya Nelson, I done the same thing on the old Canon DN-22's.... those things will pull yer freakin apartment around the block if you got the TE to handle the weight in tow..... NOW, I wish I had bought more! I think I got 2 lots of 10 motors, 10 for $19.00!!!! NOW those same motors are selling for $19 EACH and higher!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - October 02 2013 : 3:29:33 PM
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quote:
From one John, to another. THANKS for posting that!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - April 08 2015 : 2:03:54 PM
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quote:
John, I have a Rivarossi 2 truck Heislar that needs a new motor. The current motor (part #17771) is held in place by a support that screws to the motor face by 2 screws and a placement pin. This support also covers the driveshaft gear and the top of the gearbox. I see from the link, that you posted, that there are 3 holes in the front of the motor. Are these threaded so I can screw the motor support to it?
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Posted - April 08 2015 : 3:53:11 PM
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Alex,
It has been a few years since I used these to re-motor a couple steam engines. My good friend was a machinist and he obtained the mounting screws. From what I have seen, I would think they were M2x0.4. This is the size most often used on small Asian motors. A few Asian Motors I have used were not tapped and just had blind holes. You might PM NicklePlate759 and he may know for sure. All my stuff is up in the new house, and finding it would be a real quest.
I sure miss EM-1 (John)!
Regards, John
Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. <> Gen George S. Patton
Edited by - JRG1951 on April 09 2015 5:15:33 PM
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Posted - April 08 2015 : 4:34:00 PM
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quote:
John, I have a Rivarossi 2 truck Heislar that needs a new motor. The current motor (part #17771) is held in place by a support that screws to the motor face by 2 screws and a placement pin. This support also covers the driveshaft gear and the top of the gearbox. I see from the link, that you posted, that there are 3 holes in the front of the motor. Are these threaded so I can screw the motor support to it?
Originally posted by Retired Alex - April 08 2015 : 2:03:54 PM
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Alex, John is no longer around. I assume the motor you're talking about is the older round 3 pole RR. The flat can above is compact, but may not fit inside the weight without grinding. A really good replacement is this 6 pole pancake style can that fits in the old motor's profile. It has lots of torque and is only 6000 RPM at 12 volts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171211128744
I wouldn't drill or tap because it's too easy to destroy the armature, and there's no way to get the steel shavings out of it when you're done (I've opened small cans like these, but it ain't easy). You could use RTV to glue it to the motor mount, or take the armature and ring magnet out of the old motor housing and carefully glue this one into it. Then it's just a matter of pressing on the pinion and screwing the original motor housing back in place.
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Posted - April 08 2015 : 6:10:52 PM
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Thanks Nelson.
I quoted from the right John.
Edited by - Retired Alex on April 08 2015 6:12:34 PM
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 Posted - April 08 2015 : 9:45:21 PM
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Oops, so you did.
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 11:04:16 AM
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| Found one on Ebay for $18.17 (CDN) but the shipping to Canada is a killer, $37.90 (CDN). Too rich for me.
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 11:23:58 AM
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I just checked, and unfortunately the shaft on these isn't long enough to mount one inside the old motor can. You'll have to use some other method. I think the original motor has a brass spacer around the front bearing to locate it inside the gearbox cover. You should be able to pull it off and glue it to the new motor. If centered it will maintain proper gear mesh.
Once that's tested I'd glue the motor to the gearbox cover, unless screw holes are fortunate enough to line up.
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 11:53:11 AM
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quote:Found one on Ebay for $18.17 (CDN) but the shipping to Canada is a killer, $37.90 (CDN). Too rich for me.
Originally posted by Retired Alex - April 09 2015 : 11:04:16 AM
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Huh? In the link I provided you get 5 for $6.59 US, and according to their calculator shipping is free to Canada from China. I had to pay $1.98, and it was still a great deal.
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 12:41:50 PM
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I'm still checking on the link you provided. I have to get back downstairs to make some measurements on the old motor before I order anything.
Update:
Went to do some measurements and took the Heisler apart and removed the motor. Hooked it up direct to the power pack and it ran. Put the motor back in the engine - nothing. Started checking around and the ohm meter indicated a short from the isolated motor brush to the frame. After some more investigation I found the short and corrected it and reassembled the engine. It ran, but very slowly. Took it all apart, I mean everything. The grease in the gearbox was so old it was a solid mass. After chipping it all out and and a thorough cleaning, new grease and all is well, running beautifully.
Edited by - Retired Alex on April 09 2015 4:09:11 PM
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 7:29:08 PM
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Good to hear, Alex. It often is the simple things that trip us up. I thought maybe you just wanted a better performing motor. I used one of these in one of my U25C's and the performance is amazing, but that's a much easier install.
The original Rivarossi motors are also very DCC-able, as long as you remove the grounding contact.
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Posted - April 09 2015 : 7:41:12 PM
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| I probably should have indicated that I just got this engine and it was advertized as "Not Running, Needs Rebuilding". But I have a few more engines that need motors, so the info I picked up will come in handy.
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Posted - May 07 2015 : 01:51:37 AM
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| I have six of that motor, three pole, that I need the brushes and wire connectors for, also the worm gears. I'd be glad to swap some of what I have for what I need, or buy parts outright.
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