|
|
 Posted - September 03 2013 : 9:37:58 PM
|
|
I had a Power Torque engine start to squeak today. I put some oil on the on each end of the armature. Then I applied some grease to the axles and gears. when I put it on the tract it ran intermittently, started to smoke, and stopped. I thought no problem and replaced the motor and applied a little less oil and grease and the same thing happened. I ruined two motors and other than me realizing i need to stop trying to fix motors, I still dont know what I did wrong.
|
Country:  USA ~
Posts: 664 ~
Member Since: May 05 2012 ~
Last Visit: June 11 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 03 2013 : 10:48:41 PM
|
Phillip,
did you put ANY oil next to the area of the motor where the motor brushes and springs are? As if you add to much oil on the motor shaft and it "leaks" onto the brush area, it causes that to smoke, cause heat and ruins the commutator plates....This is EXACTLY why I stress NO oil on the brush area, VERY light grease is better then adding oil as it "runs" into places its really unwanted.
This is also why I don't agree with Labelle oil saying their oil is "OK" to put into the internals of a motor, That information is wrong, in fact so wrong, I contacted Labelle Oil on the matter, explained the same thing you have here, got a reply that it should have had no effect on any electric motor. My reply was, then if that's so, why do I get so many repower jobs in my shop for repairs from the cause being oil burning out the commutator of the motors? AND knowing the oil used in more then 50% of the cases being the Labelle Oil said not to be harmful................Guess what? I have not heard a reply......since! Guess, I got my answer, I would like to send a reply to this to them, on a payment on all the motors wasted from their bad information, but I doubt it ever be read by a human being at their factory......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2911 ~
Member Since: March 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: January 14 2014
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 03 2013 : 10:51:28 PM
|
I would make sure that nothing is in a bind.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3147 ~
Member Since: May 07 2007 ~
Last Visit: June 10 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 03 2013 : 10:57:55 PM
|
quote:I had a Power Torque engine start to squeak today..... I put some oil on the on each end of the armature.
Originally posted by GG-1 Guy - September 03 2013 : 9:37:58 PM
|
The question is, how MUCH oil did you use? These motors are tiny, you can't put hardly a drop, that's too much! It's just such a tiny amount needed, its easy to overdue, then the oil gets in the armature, it catches fire, whoosh/burnt/done. Most of the squeaking comes from the pinion gear ( tiny little silver one ) shaft on the armature as it passes through the housing. When the hole in the housing gets a bit large, it'll squeal, and it's almost impossible to get it to stop, lube sometimes wont' help, it's wear on the housing. They don't recommend oiling the armature end, as you found out, too much oil gets on the armature, it starts burning on the wires, and then it's toast. The best way would be to take the armature out, rub the shaft that goes through the brass bearing sleeve with a Q-tip with a bit of oil on it, so the shaft gets just enough oil, but not too much. don't want it dripping off the shaft! Just smeared on lightly. Hard to quantify THAT, isn't it?   But if you used a full drop ( 1/8 inch in diameter or so ), that was way overkill.
Again, most of the squeal comes from the gear side, not the bottom / brush side. And if it's wear related, lube usually won't help. I've found if you take some of the spring pressure off the brushes, the squeal goes away on some units. Not sure why, but it did on two motors I revived, that were awful squealers.
Sorry you had so much trouble, but then again, these motors usually are trouble to keep going once they age some.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3974 ~
Member Since: January 04 2009 ~
Last Visit: January 11 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 03 2013 : 11:59:56 PM
|
Yeah, you can only put a micro-drop of oil on the brush side bearing. If you take the motors apart and clean everything with 90% alcohol, they will most likely run again. Dropping the brushes into a stronger solvent like carburetor cleaner or lacquer thinner will really help to strip the oil out of them so they don't re-deposit it back onto the commutator. If the commutator plates (which are just copper traces on a disk of fiberglass circuit board material) are pitted or burned, you can polish them back up with a pencil eraser.
If they should ever squeal again, apply oil to the gear side first. In my experience it was always that bearing that did the squealing, so if it's the culprit you won't have added oil to the brushes.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 04 2013 12:01:50 AM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3927 ~
Member Since: June 20 2007 ~
Last Visit: November 19 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 04 2013 : 07:02:57 AM
|
Thanks guy, I'm done with tryint to work on motors. what really pisses me off is the fact that this motor belonged to my Western Pacific GP20 jand I dont want to mess up the paint by accidently getting oil or a solvent on it. I think I'm just going to buy me a donor geep on eBay and switch out motors.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 664 ~
Member Since: May 05 2012 ~
Last Visit: June 11 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 04 2013 : 10:51:53 AM
|
GG-1 guy; do not give up working on the motors. As was stated, most likely some oil got on the brushes and killed it. A drop of oil is too much. It is best to place a drop of oil on a surface and spread it out. Then take the tip of a knife blade and get yourself just the tiniest amount of oil that you can on it and place it at the bearing surface. Watch for it to move into the area by capillary action. Then stop. We all want out stuff to run well but too much oil is often worse that none. There are other evils that will cause trouble. It is possible that before your work on it, someone else had gotten it hot. This takes all of the "spring" out of the brush springs and doesn't allow them to do their job of pressing the brushes against the commutator. This will also cause overheating and the cooking of any oil in the neighborhood. This is often seen as the plastic cover plate being melted and distorted where the brush guides go through it. (the brush guides are the little brass colored tubes)
I have had good luck using Wahl brand hair clipper oil in the proximity of brushes and springs.
It is possible to disassemble the motor you have and clean the brushes and commutator. Then reassemble and it will run nicely. Just make sure that the brush springs are still springy. I test them by both looking at them to see if they are still "copper looking" not a reddish color and by taking tweezers and seeing if they are still able to bounce back if squeezed.
Randy
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 365 ~
Member Since: April 30 2011 ~
Last Visit: June 21 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 06 2013 : 7:18:58 PM
|
quote: quote:I had a Power Torque engine start to squeak today..... I put some oil on the on each end of the armature.
Originally posted by GG-1 Guy - September 03 2013 : 9:37:58 PM
|
...These motors are tiny, you can't put hardly a drop, that's too much! .....
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â September 03 2013Â :Â 10:57:55 PM
|
Right on,Jerry ! That's exactly what my brother says every time I oil a motor. I oil them with the end of a sewing needle.!
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
Edited by - NC shortlines on September 06 2013 7:31:48 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 825 ~
Member Since: December 22 2008 ~
Last Visit: March 16 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 07 2013 : 5:09:18 PM
|
i dip a small piece of wire (025") into oil & get it to form a small drop on the end of the wire, them i put that drop on the center of the armature & one on the gear side & i'm done. it is to easy to over oil these motors. i've smoked a many of them until i finally read how to do it correctly.
jerry
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
Home
Forums
Events Calendar
Forum Admins & Mods
Register
