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 Posted - February 09 2013 : 09:07:23 AM
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Has anyone ever been able to get one of the PT Tenders to run a train at anything less than a sprint?
I have this Royal Blue 2-8-0 that I bought from a forum member a while back. It's beautiful and I don't think it has much track time. I just cannot get it to run at a nice slow chug. I pulled the tender all apart and it needed no cleaning. Everything was pristine, so I just properly lubed it up, gave it some new traction tires and tried it out. At anything less than a scale 60 mph, the thing just randomly slows to a stop with the headlight on. Same results with or without a 5 car consist.
The tender is in absolute stock form and I do NOT want to re-motor it. I just have too many other projects. I'm planning on adding some weight and upgrading the tender wheels like Mr shaygetz blogs about here:
http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium.blogspot.com/2009/09/tyco-2-8-0-chattanooga-choo-choo.html
Right now I'm running it for a while at it's preferred sprint to see if it just needs breaking-in.
Does anyone else have any suggestions besides re-motoring the tender?
~ Dave
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - February 09 2013 : 09:39:12 AM
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Nelson, AKA Nickleplate759 has used a .010" bronze washer between the motor armature and the block (on the inside ) to take some slope out. According to him, big improvement. I have had some PT's do this to me! I keep them running at 60 MPH any ways. Is it getting hot?
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - February 09 2013 : 09:48:04 AM
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Oh boy, I can see this is going to be fun lol! Where am I going to find an .010 bronze washer?
No, it's not getting hot while running at sprint. Just normally warm.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - February 09 2013 : 09:54:46 AM
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NWSL has the washers.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - February 09 2013 : 10:43:28 AM
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OK, thank you!
~ Dave
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Posted - February 09 2013 : 8:16:53 PM
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RDC, it may look pristine, but it ain't. First check that all of the gearing turns freely, because old grease can dry up like bathroom caulk. Oil where they turn on their pins, or remove and clean them if they are stiff.
Even after cleaning, one of the smaller idlers on my Royal Blue was a tight friction fit. The pin was a little larger than normal, so I sanded it and also reamed out the gear a little until it spun freely. Clean and oil the axles too.
If that doesn't help, take the motor apart and soak the brushes in a strong solvent like carburetor cleaner, lacquer thinner, etc. to get the oil out. Then clean the armature and commutator with alcohol, especially the grooves between the copper plates. Doesn't hurt to polish it up with fine 400 or 600 grit sandpaper, or even a pencil eraser will work if you don't have any. Clean off any eraser or copper dust, then reassemble and add the tiniest amount of oil you can manage to the bearing on the brush end (you can be a little less careful on the gear side).
Thanks for mentioning the thrust washer, Justin. I'd forgotten about that. It did improve the performance of the only two PT locos I have.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on February 09 2013 10:37:57 PM
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Posted - February 10 2013 : 12:46:22 PM
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OK, I pulled it all apart again and did everything that you mentioned, with the exception of polishing something with 400 grit sand paper. I'm not sure what you're talking about polishing. There was still not much old lube to remove. In any case, it all moves freely. It's all lubed up and still the same ... crappy operation at attempted slow speeds and OK operation at high speeds. I'm going to try the thrust washer, but I'm going to assume that the washer will not give me the desired results and against my original wishes, pick up a tender to remotor.
I have a 430 with the PT and it runs pretty nice. I already remotored my GP Chatanooga with an old Mantua MU2, and I love it. A gear spindle broke on that PT, so I had to do something. This was definitely my most miserable experience with the PT motor.
~ Dave
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Posted - February 10 2013 : 1:29:30 PM
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My most miserable PT experience was with one that glowed orange the whole time it ran! Your experience will vary with these PT's.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - February 11 2013 : 4:51:24 PM
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RDC, also check for weak or collapsed brush springs. The part I was saying to polish is the commutator, which on these pancake motors is actually a piece of circuit board with copper traces. If it's dirty, pitted, or has dirt in the slots between the copper it can cause the kinds of symptoms you're seeing. The thrust washer can help, but isn't going to cure whatever is ailing yours.
Justin, these motors often make better smoke units than the smoke units! 
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 20 2013 : 12:49:15 PM
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Disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the entire assembly again. Checked and cleaned the brushes and there is very little wear. Installed a thrust washer from NWSL, lubed and reassembled. Also converted the two gear driven wheels to nickle silver from a donor tender. I hand cleaned the entire loop of track. It has a good bit better performance at low speed, but it's still erratic. It'll slow to a crawl, sometimes stop or even speed up.
Next, I'll clean up the PT motor from the donor tender and see how that one runs. If this second PT doesn't work out, I'll re-motor the donor tender, against my original wishes. If it wasn't such a nice looking engine, it would have become a model train wreck on my layout.
~ Dave
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Posted - February 20 2013 : 3:55:00 PM
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One other thing to try is to reheat the solder pads where the armature wire is soldered to the commutator just in case there's a cold solder joint. Other than that, I dunno. Maybe it will smooth out if run for while, but you may have better luck with the donor motor. Some combination of the two should work out. One advantage to these things being mass produced is that replacement drives are a dime a dozen.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 25 2014 : 10:58:47 PM
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2nd PT went up in smoke tonight. Time to stop goofing around and re-motor it with something else.
~ Dave
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Posted - December 26 2014 : 7:30:28 PM
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Rebuilt the PT again. The windings were fried. It's running again, but it still will not pull more than 2 cars and the caboose,  so I'm still going to re-motor the tender ... with what, I'm not sure. I just want it to run as nice as it looks.
~ Dave
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Posted - December 27 2014 : 11:03:17 AM
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So I decided to turn the power pack all the way up and let the Royal Blue do whatever it was going to do. At times it would run at full sprint and then grind to a crawl without my touching the throttle. After nearly 2 hours of this, all of a sudden as if by magic, the Royal Blue began to run well. REALLY well. Now I can even run it at a full range of speeds. I have no idea why.
~ Dave
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Posted - December 27 2014 : 11:45:50 AM
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Maybe needed a little breaking in. I've gotten older Tyco PT's with barely any run time and they run like crap for a while.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 27 2014 : 2:29:16 PM
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quote:Maybe needed a little breaking in. I've gotten older Tyco PT's with barely any run time and they run like crap for a while.
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - December 27 2014 : 11:45:50 AM
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I think you're right Justin, that's about the only thing that makes sense.
~ Dave
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Posted - December 28 2014 : 10:28:46 AM
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Just needed the break in time. Might have been a thin layer of varnish from old oil on a shaft, the bosses the gears ride on needing to polish up and "bed in" to the gear train. So many yeas of sitting can do this. I deal with this on all the old brass engines I have when I buy them. Most have never been run and need several hours of tinkering and running at warp speed to loosen up things before they will run well. Thankfully my RB ran really well after a basic lube job. Glad you got it running better!
Still NT's, I have Aspergers.
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Posted - December 28 2014 : 7:07:55 PM
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This thing has been the bane of my railroading existence for over 2 years, but I like the looks of it too much to give up on it. I'm still going to create another drive for it, just in case. I just don't trust it.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
Edited by - RDC1 on December 28 2014 10:04:09 PM
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