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 Posted - December 02 2012 : 2:51:11 PM
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I know the PT can be remotored via a CD-ROM motor. But, could a set of gears and a motor from a Mantua be fitted onto the actual loco frame like a normal steamer?I know some modifications will have to be done to the boiler, frame, and wieght added. I won't be using the smoke unit what so ever.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 02 2012 : 2:53:50 PM
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Sure, Justin. Both Frank and Ray have done it. An axle gear can be mounted in place of the smoke cam, along with the other mods you mentioned.
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Posted - December 02 2012 : 3:00:28 PM
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Awesome! I know Frank had shown one off that had this done to it.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 02 2012 : 3:06:50 PM
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I too have done just what Justin is asking.....
I also took a TYCO 0-8-0, and turned it into a 0-10-0! As seen above! 
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 02 2012 : 4:16:07 PM
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What's that gear off John? I have at least 7 of those motors! The gear axle, what's it off of?
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 04:24:19 AM
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Mantua did this themselves in the late 1970s. Every once in a while I see one - the same boiler as the detailed version of the PT 2-8-0/0-8-0 with funky small drivers and a conventional Mantua drive.
How long it lasted or where it went I'm not sure - they're fairly scarce engines. I've run across two - one an 0-8-0 in it's original box, the other today a 2-8-0 without any box, and with a big Vandy tender.
I know the tool for the less detailed version went to IHC, who also turned it into a conventional drive locomotive (and added some detail back to it). I suppose it's possible Model Power got the other one when they bought out Mantua.
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 07:15:08 AM
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quote:What's that gear off John? I have at least 7 of those motors! The gear axle, what's it off of?
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - December 02 2012 : 4:16:07 PM
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Justin,
The gear came off some "electronic" item I disemboweled for parts....The axle gear was also from the same unit as well and I center drilled the original hole for a medium press with a ream, in the lathe, same for the worm gear as they had tiny shafts on them, that I removed.....
The motor I bought from "All Electronics" some time ago.....I once had 500 of those motors! Now, I think I might have 3-4 of them left!
I will tell say, you WILL need to machine out the hole in the frame to fit the axle gear. As that smoke unit "cam" was small to start with and the gear is much larger so.....But, as you see it in the pictures it runs VERY smooth (surprisingly to me) as I didn't have to make alot of adjustments, which was surprising to me! I'll at some point, get a video of it....
I plan, to make that a B&O 0-10-0 Class U, #950. The largest non-articulated steam switchers in America, for they're time!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 07:18:41 AM
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quote:Mantua did this themselves in the late 1970s. Every once in a while I see one - the same boiler as the detailed version of the PT 2-8-0/0-8-0 with funky small drivers and a conventional Mantua drive.
How long it lasted or where it went I'm not sure - they're fairly scarce engines. I've run across two - one an 0-8-0 in it's original box, the other today a 2-8-0 without any box, and with a big Vandy tender.
I know the tool for the less detailed version went to IHC, who also turned it into a conventional drive locomotive (and added some detail back to it). I suppose it's possible Model Power got the other one when they bought out Mantua.
Originally posted by lvrr325Â -Â December 03 2012Â :Â 04:24:19 AM
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Also TYCO did a retro on this unit too.... it was made in China, BUT resembled the IHC 2-8-2, without the pilot and trailing truck, sold under TYCO in the late 1980's early 1990's.....I've got one and recall seeing them on the shelves in the hobby shops.
The Mantua version, I'm not sure about, I think it was a retro too, a TYCO shell/boiler, on a Mantua drive completely.....Made for a good looking 2-8-0 or 0-8-0 thats for sure!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 1:12:52 PM
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I would use the axle gear, worm and motor from a Tyco 0-4-0.
The frame of the 2-8-0 would have to be modified to the same thickness as the motor mount area of the 0-4-0 frame and a hole drilled in the 2-8-0 frame for the motor mounting screw.
On the 2-8-0 I remotored, I made a worm box that mounted on the frame and used a can motor. (not the easiest way to go)
Ray
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 3:18:39 PM
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I am using the 0-4-0's gear.
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 4:24:47 PM
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quote:
Also TYCO did a retro on this unit too.... it was made in China, BUT resembled the IHC 2-8-2, without the pilot and trailing truck, sold under TYCO in the late 1980's early 1990's.....I've got one and recall seeing them on the shelves in the hobby shops.
The Mantua version, I'm not sure about, I think it was a retro too, a TYCO shell/boiler, on a Mantua drive completely.....Made for a good looking 2-8-0 or 0-8-0 thats for sure!
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â December 03 2012Â :Â 07:18:41 AM
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No, the late Tyco "0-8-0" is discussed elsewhere on this forum, it IS the same as the IHC engine, made by Mehano in Slovenia/Yugoslavia, and has nothing to do with the tooling Tyco used previously other than using the same lettering masks.
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 8:15:50 PM
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The Mantua does use the Tyco 2-8-0 boiler. The late 0-8-0 is a Mehano with Tyco masking as lvrr stated.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 03 2012 : 9:23:25 PM
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Yes, the later was just a "marketing" emblem from TYCO that had used the Mehano made in Yugo....had nothing to do with the actual TYCO 2-8-0, or 0-8-0......I hope what I said didn't come across differently as the only connection of these 2 loco's was between TYCO and Mantua....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 05:38:42 AM
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| Well, there are two tools for that boiler, with some minor differences. IHC/Mehano got one, did the other go back to the Tyler family when they bought the Mantua line back (and thus to Model Power)? The biggest difference is one has an oversized headlight at the top of the smokebox; the other as sold by Tyco, a molded in crude headlight centered on the smokebox.
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 07:45:12 AM
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lvrr,
I have to say the part I didn't like with the 2-8-0 from TYCO was the headlight casting it looked way to big, Sadly. Because other then that, it was a decent detailed model for a 2-8-0 or a 0-8-0 for that matter......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 08:20:36 AM
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I have done 3 of them. This is a photo of the first one. You can see the worm gear and part of the frame of the Tyco-Mantua motor.
toptrain1 frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on December 04 2012 08:22:29 AM
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 09:59:16 AM
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Last one is a engine I recieved from a friend Louie. It is nickotine coated. With a MDC vanderbuilt tender. I recieved it as a dummy loco. With the smoke unit removed and this tender added.
toptrain
I cleaned up the boiler you can see I missed the head light and steps.
Here is the drive with the gear added.
Here is the frame done, with valve gear intact.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on December 04 2012 10:02:06 AM
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 11:52:37 AM
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Frank, was the frame grinded down any? I can't believe that nicotene stained it that bad!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 12:12:40 PM
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I could be wrong, but it looks like the gear Frank used is the larger gear from the Mikado and Pacific.
Ray
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 12:49:17 PM
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quote:I could be wrong, but it looks like the gear Frank used is the larger gear from the Mikado and Pacific.
Originally posted by Ray Marinaccio - December 04 2012 : 12:12:40 PM
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Ray you use what you got. Moer fileing had to be done. Same worm gear.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 12:51:06 PM
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quote:Frank, was the frame grinded down any? I can't believe that nicotene stained it that bad!
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - December 04 2012 : 11:52:37 AM
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Justin , Just had to file out the hole.
frank
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Helm
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Posted - December 04 2012 : 2:35:24 PM
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| Wow - I'm inspired! I've got a Royal Blue engine I got in a lot. It has no tender (the tender dive) but does have the valve gear and moves freely when you push it. I never would have thought of trying to put a geared axle and a moter in it! Have to check my parts box and see what I can come up with!
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 09:10:09 AM
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WOW! All very good work pictured.
The nicotine stains, WOW! Thats incredible!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 12:00:40 PM
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I did file the hole out for the Pacific gear. Took a good 10-15 mintues! I tried it out and seems the gear would barely clear a re-railer! I do have Dremel and that;s my weekend project to grind the frame down so I can use the 0-4-0's gear and motor.
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 2:13:51 PM
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quote: I do have Dremel and that;s my weekend project to grind the frame down so I can use the 0-4-0's gear and motor.
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - December 05 2012 : 12:00:40 PM
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Let us know how that works out.
If you have an 0-4-0 frame to take measurements from it will help in determaning how much to remove from the 2-8-0 frame and where to drill the motor mounting hole.
This would make a great how to article.
Ray
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 2:15:49 PM
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Justin, thats the nice thing with having a milling machine of some sort, I know they are expensive, but I'll tell ya, (from past experience) your elbow isn't as tired when your done!
I would have to measure what the size of the axle gear I used due to its nature (its not a train related part) BUT it fit and works GREAT so.....and it sits higher in the frame so isn't as big in diameter as the Mantua 4-6-2's or 2-8-2's.....
I tell ya, I'm always looking for "junk" electric items, specially the old 8 Track players, that no longer work (working ones in good condition are worth a few bucks) so I look for the junk ones to rip apart for pieces! As I'm almost sure thats where the gearing came from thats seen in my TYCO 0-10-0.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 2:18:04 PM
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Will do Ray! I have a metric/english caliper on hand. Wish I had a micrometer! I got a junk Mantua motor and will use the old brass bracket for the drill guide.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 05 2012 : 9:52:40 PM
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| Maybe that's why the Mantua version has weird small drivers - to clear the hole and the rail head.
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 02:32:55 AM
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Frank, how do you attach the firebox area to the frame, since the motor goes all the way to the rear? There no room for a screw. I wouldn't want the whole thing hanging on by the steamchest.
The larger axle gear looks like it's the same diameter as the wheel tread, but if it clears it would give you a lower speed range.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 08:23:28 AM
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This thread has turned VERY interesting.
I'm going to be going through all my "non train" gearing and match up gearing with a worm and see what I have as I have ALOT of uses for these.....
Nelson, as far as mounting, I normally use the cab floor (if present) for mounting the rear most frame to the boiler, IF the cab mounts solid to the boiler. Also, depends on the application too.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 12:29:47 PM
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quote: how do you attach the firebox area to the frame, since the motor goes all the way to the rear? There no room for a screw. I wouldn't want the whole thing hanging on by the steamchest.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â December 06 2012Â :Â 02:32:55 AM
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I have done that a couple of different ways.
It depends what motor you use and how it is mounted, and how much of the bottom of the firebox you have to remove.
I have one that has the original mounting area of the firebox intact and I used the original mount. The motor fits in over the bottom of the firebox.
The others had that whole firebox area cut out and I drilled the rear of the frame through the drawbar mount, filed off the drawbar stud and replaced it with a spacer made of brass tubing.
Ray
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 12:47:17 PM
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This is the one that retained the original mount area.
I'm not sure it could be done with a Mantua motor installed on the frame.
This is a gearhead motor with a 2 lead worm, idler gear and 14 tooth axle gear. It is slow moving but great for yard duty.
Ray
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 2:28:43 PM
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I have to grind the motor mount area down for the motor's worm to actually mesh with the axle gear.
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 3:17:22 PM
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Ray, nice repower. I recognize the Mehano diesel double lead worm. I guess with that kind of reduction you need a double lead to make its movement visible. 
I was referring to the PM-1 retrofit. The lack of a rear screw and wanting to install a better motor made me sideline this project. A PM-1 with rare earth magnets can run as well as a can, tho.
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Posted - December 06 2012 : 5:19:48 PM
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Ray,
THATS a nice motor, I bet its a powerfully little thing, as it looks to be...
Looks like a GREAT repower none the less, VERY cleanly done!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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