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 Posted - October 02 2012 : 7:54:29 PM
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Okay guys so i did some slight sanding on the frames axle slots just to remove any substances and did the same on the drive wheel axles but when I take 2 wires powered from a controller they just spark when they touch the split frame. When I put the wheels under the frame they just spark. Where do I go from here??
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Hyde.
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Posted - October 02 2012 : 8:16:14 PM
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They axles may have been coated with something to prevent short outs! Remember, the centers, rims and axles are metal! Don;t forget, the "brass" bearings.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - October 02 2012 : 8:44:15 PM
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If it's the white pancake motor, check to be sure the motor contacts are touching the proper half of the frame and not sandwiched between them, which can cause a short. You have to guide one of the contacts into place.
Btw, why start a new thread? Just continue the original one.
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Posted - October 02 2012 : 8:58:25 PM
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It is the white pancake motor an i'll have too check! And because it's easier to supply an update seperately and go from there.
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Hyde.
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Posted - October 02 2012 : 9:45:39 PM
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Whoever told me to adjust the wire that touches the frame was right!! It totally worked! Now the motor is up and running strong again! Just have to install 2 new axles and then it should be running good again! Can't thank you all enough but lets hope I won't have to come back and ask again 
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Posted - October 02 2012 : 10:27:27 PM
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I ran into that problem with mine. One contact is bent like a V, and the other is straight and has to contact the opposite half of the frame. It can be a b!tch to push it into place while reassembling.
I prefer a tutorial or project to be easily accessible in one thread. Cuts down on clutter, too.
quote:Whoever told me to adjust the wire that touches the frame was right!! It totally worked!
Originally posted by SCVR66 - October 02 2012 : 9:45:39 PM
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Whoever told you?  
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Edited by - NickelPlate759 on October 03 2012 05:48:43 AM
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Posted - October 03 2012 : 07:32:24 AM
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Yeah, I had said about them too.....In the other post he made....... if they weren't touching to make them touch the frames!
IF that didn't work solder a wire to the motor contacts and run it to the sides of the frame as the "wipers" did....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - October 03 2012 : 8:02:57 PM
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there you go! It was john IIRC that mentioned it. It was a real game changer!  Now after I finish my 2nd mantua shifter restoration I'll finish the 2-8-2!
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Posted - October 03 2012 : 10:46:33 PM
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What can I say, great minds think alike. That drove me crazy every time I had to put the frame halves back together when I was repairing one early this year, which was often due to multiple issues. I had to guide the one contact into place with a small screwdriver each time.
The original version had a black brush end plate that held the motor in one half of the frame similar to a PT truck, instead of being sandwiched. That's what was used on the Lionel GS4's.
So how does it run now?
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 12:12:08 AM
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Yeah...well..ummm. it doesn't run at all!! The motor hums and i can see the motor shaft barely making a third of the rotation before stopping but it still hums?? Now what?? I put new axles on it, probably should've started with that! But the axles are on properly and it doesnt run?? I'll take off the running gear and seperately test the motor AGAIN and see if it still works like it did yesterday.
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Edited by - SCVR66 on October 04 2012 12:19:03 AM
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 12:23:05 AM
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It sounds like you have a mechanical bind. Did you put in new complete wheelsets, or just new axles? My guess is you've got one or more out of quarter. If that's the case, unless you've done quartering before I recommend taking it back.
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Edited by - NickelPlate759 on October 04 2012 12:23:50 AM
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 12:27:17 AM
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Just the 2nd and 3rd axles replaced. Again I have no intrest in taking it back, it's my headache the wheels never had a problem before...
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 01:17:56 AM
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Yes, but are they quartered?
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 01:35:55 AM
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Thats a damn good question! But if they were, wouldn't the motor still spin? Further tests will be done tommorow.
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 07:38:23 AM
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IF the drivers aren't quartered, the mechanism will "lock" and the motor won't be able to spin, this is why those rods need to be at 15 on the clock and the ecentric crank at 15 degrees past the axle or it won't spin or roll freely!
Otherwise it will lock the gearing and the motor will burn up from heat, as that will not allow it to spin, no matter how much power is put to the rails!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 2:51:34 PM
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Well how can a bachmann drive wheel be out of quarter?? The only wheel that could be is the 4th.. i'll have to check that later today. Other then the 4th wheel, an axle connects the 2 wheels and the axle is removable. the pin that goes into the wheel is part of the wheel casting. You all know this but I dont see how a old bachmann wheel can be out of quarter. They ran fine when i first took the locomotive out of the box.
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 6:20:22 PM
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How can any manufacturer's drivers get out of quarter? Either by slipping on the axle, or by someone removing them without knowing what they're doing. Do you know what quartering is?
The crankpins on each set of drivers must be offset 90 degrees from each other, usually with a right-hand lead, meaning the RH wheels are ahead: for e.g. the RH cankpins will be at 3 o'clock when the LH ones are at 12. A 90 degree offset gives a real steam locomotive its best mechanical advantage. It's not as critical for a model because they aren't powered through the main rods, but manufacturers stick to 90 or close to it for realism.
Unless the axles on your loco are keyed so the wheels go together with the right orientation, you're not going to be able to get the drivers back together in line with one another easily. If the drivers were at 90 degrees before you took them apart and now one is at 85, another at 93, etc., you're gong to have some serious binding, possibly enough to jam it. Less serious quartering mismatches will cause the loco to surge or waddle.
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Posted - October 04 2012 : 6:35:26 PM
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Of course I know what quartering is!  But the off-set of the axles especially on an old bachmann is new to me! So I don't have a former plan right now for this, i still have 2 other planned engines ahead of this one. Is doing the modifications on the quartering to this locomotive hard? Would anyone here be able to do the quartering work IF needed?? I don't have my NWSL quarterer and puller yet. Not like all the wheels are out of quarter, from my suspicions i'd say the 4th, geared wheel.
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Posted - October 06 2012 : 9:21:55 PM
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Well Nelson here's what the problem was! I guess some Zap dripped down the idler gear and froze the idler gear!! I was able to remove it, sand down the area around it and reinstall it! That made the motor work again but then the rear drive wheel (geared wheel) axle would slip so I applied some zap and aligned the wheel properly with the rod height and thought it should run, well it didn't but it's close! The locomotive does move a half inch then lock up! So gradually it's getting there It's in the shop now for it's turn.
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Posted - October 06 2012 : 10:55:16 PM
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Apply Zap with a toothpick, since it's too easy to pour it into everything. Don't ask me how I know.
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Posted - October 06 2012 : 11:41:18 PM
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quote:Of course I know what quartering is! But the off-set of the axles especially on an old bachmann is new to me! So I don't have a former plan right now for this, i still have 2 other planned engines ahead of this one. Is doing the modifications on the quartering to this locomotive hard? Would anyone here be able to do the quartering work IF needed?? I don't have my NWSL quarterer and puller yet. Not like all the wheels are out of quarter, from my suspicions i'd say the 4th, geared wheel.
Originally posted by SCVR66Â -Â October 04 2012Â :Â 6:35:26 PM
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Hyde,
I do quartering at times, WITHOUT a jig that is to "gauge" it. I've been doing that for so long, its almost second nature to me.....
BUT, I too have a quarterer so.....
IF you need it done, let me know! take me about 2 minutes to quarter all 4 axles!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - October 06 2012 : 11:54:47 PM
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I have to be honest here, I NEVER use CA for holding drivers to their axles, I use 60 second epoxy.....I WOULD NOT advise ANYONE to do this unless your seriously good at it, as one mistake and you just made the biggest mistake possible as once the stuff is set, you'll NEVER get it off.....I let it squeeze alittle out of the joint, and then trim it off with a knife, and sand the area very gently to not marr the surface but to remove the "bulge" of epoxy used to keep the axle round and no binding as it would not spin right if left alone.... BUT, has NEVER failed me yet.....I've even used this same epoxy to FILL in complete driver center holes where the axle presses into to re-center drill the axle hole to make it spin without a "thump" to keep it "in round" with the axle, and have no wobble! BUT this action requires a metal lathe to make it work!
This is how, I got so good at it.....In this case, you got one shot, and you better make it worth your while.... In the beginning I did screw up a couple and have to replace them out of the shop budget, but now, its been 15 plus years since I have ever had to replace one out of the shop funds!
One thing tho, if you do it right, the first time, its the LAST time you'll EVER have to do it.....The epoxy is some seriously strong adhesive! Unlike CA, its oil/grease proof, as I have found, all CA glue is somewhat unstable with oils and grease, and over time will loosen up..... Epoxy once cure is solvent/petroleum proof! And I have also found, customers alot of time over oil or grease there trains.... which is why the CA glue fails in time!
And to add to this the 60 second epoxy, is cure in one hour! can be handled in 2 minutes!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - October 06 2012 : 11:58:43 PM
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There is no obvious problem other then the rear axle. I do not believe it'd be any other axles but i dont know for sure. Well if you guys wonder why I post a seperate topic at times it's because people stop following the original such as my MDC 0-6-0 restoration.
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Posted - October 07 2012 : 12:00:26 AM
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John, I prefer Zap, and I haven't had it fail me yet. I know a few tricks for strengthening it, too. OTOH, I've found epoxy bonds easier to break when I wanted a do-over, particularly old bonds.
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Posted - October 07 2012 : 12:03:33 AM
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I like zap too but I wish it didn't clump thats why it keeps jamming the axles!
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Posted - October 07 2012 : 12:18:30 AM
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Hyde, it shouldn't clump. Be sure to clean any gelled glue out of the nozzle, and I keep my bottles upright in a sealed plastic quart soup container (the kind from Chinese takeout) in the fridge. They last a long time that way without thickening. I also attach the tapered nozzle and use a push pin to seal the tip.
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Posted - October 07 2012 : 02:36:49 AM
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Well i mean after it dries its not exactly the way i want it. It comes out just fine. I used a toothpick earlier I havent fiddled with it since it dried.
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