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 Posted - September 25 2012 : 10:22:09 PM
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I'm very intrested in purchasing an NWSL quartering jig being i'm an HO steam restorer and I figure it could come in handy plus I love repairing running gear! Anyways, with buying the jig does it have everything it needs or do I have to buy additional stuff to go with it? Thanks 
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Posted - September 25 2012 : 11:44:49 PM
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You will need a puller to remove drivers. It's also says it can't be used on Rivarossi steam.
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 08:25:24 AM
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The NWSL Quarterer, doesn't work on EVERYTHING Rivarossi being the most noted one, BUT it doesn't work on Bachmann either....
To use it, the axles in which are being quartered, HAVE to be shoulderless, and not be over 1/8th inch diameter.....
ANY thing thats over 1/8th inch diameter, and or have a shoulder on it for the gearing, will not fit into that quarterer.
Also has Nelson stated, you will need a puller of some sort, I have both the NWSL "Puller I" and "Puller II" as well as a Arbor Press for removing drivers as well.
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 11:59:03 AM
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Thanks guys! Nelson did you magically know that I've been working on a Rivarossi 0-8-0 that needed wheel work or something??  I only own 2 rivarossi steamers, One is fully operable and in no need of any repair anytime soon, while the 0-8-0 is being rebuilt. I've managed wheel repairs on my own without needeing a special tool. I'll have to buy a puler then when I get the jig. Thank you very much guys!
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 1:03:34 PM
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Yep, you caught me... I'm psychic! I just thought it bore stating in case you were.
As long as you haven't removed any of the drivers yet, just scratch some witness marks from the axle to the wheel center so you can keep them aligned. The axles are knurled so the driver will locate itself when pressed on.
John, nobody ever gave me a straight answer about why it won't work on RR drivers, but my guess was always the shouldered axles. Their Quarterer II is supposed to work on all wheelsets, but it's ridiculously expensive.
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Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 26 2012 1:04:35 PM
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 4:39:43 PM
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Nelson,
You got a Rivarossi geared driver handy? AND a non-geared driver.....Look VERY closely at them. The non geared driver will NOT work in the Quarter due to the gear itself, (specially the old gearing from the AHM years....)
The Shoulders are only part of the problem! BECAUSE they were not consistant on the machining of the axle.
This "skews" the axle in the quarterer, and allows it to fail the axle into driver, it doesn't go in true.
The newest Quarter doesn't work much differently either. They only work on the newer Rivarossi locomotives, from the "Model Expo" era As the driver axles are shoulderless, ALSO this era has no "fillet" from gear to axle like the old ones did. And smaller then 1/8 inch diameter. Which the "Model Expo Era" Rivarossi have newer plastic/delrin axle gears, where the old Rivarossi before the Model Expo era, had the all brass gear and axle, that are machined, in one part! The newer stuff from Rivarossi have a metal axle, with the plastic/delrin gear on it.
Let me know if you follow this!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 6:51:48 PM
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2 wheels were popped off the axles, when I disassembled the engine some years ago the running gear completely fell apart. Only recently did I start working on it and cleaning, all the rods, and reassemblign the running gear. After studying the proportions of the way each wheel lines up with the others I used a thin cement to reattach the axles to wheels, they wouldn't stay connected, I was very careful about it so it should be fine, but we'll see. I regret selling the boiler years ago n Ebay, because now i'm cutally working on it Got's everything else except boiler, the motor even works really good! Slowly I will work on it, in my new walthers machine shop that I put together specifically for long term projects and personal ones too.
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 8:03:34 PM
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Hyde,
What type of locomotive are these drivers too? There might be more of an issue then meets the eye....Who made it I mean?
I ask as if it has plastic centers (the spokes of the driver) it might have dislodged knurling IF and I really do stress "IF" the driver wasn't pulled straight and I do mean straight off the axle.....With a press, or a puller of some sort as any other way will distort the spoken center where the axle is seated.....
GLUE will only worsen this if thats the case!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 8:18:58 PM
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Rivarossi 0-8-0 Former Indiana Harbor Belt switcher. This was a locomotive stored in 2 boxes along with the rest of my dads collection he gave me in 2007. Being it was piled high with stuff on top and everywhere around it for decades I can see why it's not in great shape, I just wish I could go back in time to that day as my current age to pick up ALL the left over scraps and parts that I thought couldn't be used. Who knows SCVR #5s former mantua 0-4-0 #99s cab and smokebox could've been in there, as with parts from this rivarossi 0-8-0, I regret not being more experience but hey i was only 11 The cement is thin meaning I can pull it off again for additional work which I fell will be needed, I have photos on my website and facebook group if you guys would like to see, not really asking for help on it, but any input is accepted! it's a "fair-weather" project, I'm nearly done with what I can do, I plan to purchase a brass pilot off ebay to replace the broken one it has, both steps on the pilot are broken and a seller on ebay has multiple brass pilots and i'll buy the one closest to it, cut out the old pilot and weld the new one on.
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 8:39:21 PM
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you need a boiler for it still? I might have one if so.....we could trade something for it if you have anything as they normally are expensive to get!
Be carefull with the drivers of it tho, they are a difficult one to repair just because it says "Rivarossi" on it as I specialize in Rivarossi repairs so......
I'd check the drivers, with NO rods on them to see if they roll smoothly with the 2 driver issues you had to make sure they are "in round" with the axles.
This step will help you GREATLY before you add ANY rods....alot of time the mistake is people think the rods are causing when its actually the axle centers on the driver wheels themself!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 9:04:11 PM
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Yeah but a complete boiler, the original i sold had no smokebox door and bell. So I need a complete one. I have time to work on this week being my new layout construction is on hold.
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 9:12:01 PM
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Keep in mind, quartering takes patence. I myself never have done it though, could a cake-walk. Those 0-8-0 parts maybe hard to get depending on what ya need.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 26 2012 : 9:14:23 PM
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quote:Yeah but a complete boiler, the original i sold had no smokebox door and bell. So I need a complete one. I have time to work on this week being my new layout construction is on hold.
Originally posted by SCVR66Â -Â September 26 2012Â :Â 9:04:11 PM
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I have the complete boiler! The only part I don't think I have is the damned bell that goes on the boiler front!
Let me know! PM Me, we can work out some sort of trade, I'm sure!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 12:01:21 AM
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I'm in no rush to buy the jig, but I will need it soon. I take my time when repairing, being I don't have a layout to run my locos on right now I don't have any reason to press it into operation, the 0-8-0 #102 will likely not enter operational status till next year. Fine with me, it's just another big project.
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 3:45:01 PM
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John,
Yeah, it makes sense, and the shouldering on RR axles was often different lengths, as center drivers usually had shouldering to allow for more lateral play. It had to be more expensive to do it that way, rather than standardize parts. All I know is they loved turning things on lathes in Como!
Hyde, I use Zap CA to reattach Rivarossi drivers. I even did it successfully on an FEF-3 that had 4 loose drivers. The axle holes on the geared set had been gouged out by the axle, so I reduced their diameter by running successive layers of CA around the ID. That made them too tight, so I reamed them with a file until they were a friction fit, then quartered them by eye and secured them to the axle with more CA. This was a tough job because I had to make sure there was no side-to-side wobble, but it all worked out and the loco runs without a hitch. It was a more successful result than I got with my first repair, which was with epoxy. Whichever glue you use, though, you have to degrease the parts completely in alcohol for it to hold.
That said, since you have more missing parts than not, it seems like it would make more sense to buy a complete loco, or even a fixer-upper and use some of these parts to complete it. RR produced so many of those 0-8-0's that they tend to go pretty cheap, and the parts you need could really add up.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 27 2012 3:46:05 PM
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 6:18:16 PM
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Nelson stop reading my mind!! I use Zap too!! Best stuff I've ever purchased right there!
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 7:03:59 PM
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Zap is the best! Holds like no other CA I've tried, and Zip Kicker seems to make it set up even stronger.
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 8:15:53 PM
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Is it me or are you watching my website or facebook page?? Thats the only places I update weekly. I love zap, use it on almost everything, structure kits, drive wheels, and or various repairs, it's just very useful!
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 10:31:10 PM
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I don't want to do this, BUT, if I could.....I'd show you both what I've done to a Rivarossi B&O "EL-5" thats basically a Y6b, "Mallet"
I "keyed" ALL the drivers and axles.....to a .040 of an inch keyway, this was a locomotive bought brand new, and wound up about 6 months after the purchase, the drivers on both sets of engine had 2 come loose, 4 total!
Pissed me right off as that was the time Model Expo stopped importing Rivarossi too! At that point, I was pissed! I had thought, well John, you just got screwed out of 200 bucks!
The I looked at the issue and bought a .040 inch end mill for electric milling Xerox ink cartridge that have the printer head on them! (yeah, it costed a BUNCH for that! BUT, it made alot of use to the Rivarossi I think that one bit costed something like $70.00! I made all of my money back with it tho.....(I need to invest in another one at this time......)
BUT that thing made those drivers un stopable now! I also had done a Bowser 2-8-2, and a 2-10-0. And I also did that to a Rivarossi/AHM 2-8-4, and a 2-8-2! Makes a SERIOUS difference to say the least and once done on the Rivarossi's liquid epoxy to mill out the centers to "re-center" the driver spokes, makes a world of difference in the ride too after a repair like that! But the building of the center to then re-mill the driver to axle fit is alittle work to say the least!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 27 2012 : 11:31:26 PM
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I'm surprised those drivers worked loose, John. It was usually their high-drivered locos like the FEF-3 that had that problem, since that + traction tires puts more torque on the wheel centers.
Are those newer axles knurled? If not, that would make it easier for them to slip. My '94 Big Boy is still going strong, not that I run it a lot.
Nelson
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Posted - September 28 2012 : 11:00:19 AM
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Nelson,
Well it is a weird one on the new RR EL-5 that I had gotten, I'm not sure if the box got brutalized in shipping or what and they over time worked loose, but it didn't happen right away as I ran the ever loving crap out of the thing (I might add, it still runs like it did when brand new back in 1996 to this day!)
But, the others that I done that too came to me with loose drivers, and then needed new "centers" on the drivers as they were seriously loose and would not hold the quartering for the rods.
Let me tell ya, wax paper, does wonders with epoxy! This is what I used to keep the driver flat, to add in the liquid epoxy to the driver centers till it filled the center then was spun and drilled with my lathe.
As for the newer drivers and axles, YES, they are knurled, BUT a single knurl, NOT a cross or double knurl as alot use!
But, remember something (I don't admit this offen) but that RR EL-5, has to be my most ran locomotive! I bet it has an excess of 1,000 REAL miles on it since I bought it back in 1996!
BUT, this one steamer, used to be my BEST pulling locomotive for years on end......Till I bought the new Bachmann Spectrum EM-1! Now,
I want to double head the 2 of them.......Man the pulling possibilities!
I "own" the current "Pull Record" for my local club, with the Spectrum EM-1, alone......Was deemed to be a real trial to be broken, WELL, I'm gonna stomp that too! (I say this) but I used the EM-1 to pull 125 cars, alone un-helped.....The last guy, had 104 cars pulled by 5 Kato diesels......This guy, set the standard for the club, NOW I'm about to re-do his own standard!
I want to take the 2 of my strongest loco's, and stomp my own pull record, as the limit is 5 locomotives.......*Evil Laugh*
My reward? Well I got a Vest with my name on it, and under my name it says "Yellowstone" for the locomotive that took the pull record that was held for many years and no one "tried" it.....TILL I joined!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 28 2012 : 2:41:43 PM
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I guess that explains it John. I'll just call you the stump puller. 
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Posted - September 28 2012 : 5:26:11 PM
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Nelson,
I just like "power" under my hand.....like any other hogger on the rails, whether a model, or the real thing!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 12:43:20 AM
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I've got to restart this topic briefy, why do I need a puller? Can't you just pull off a wheel with your finers or pliers? I've been able to before. I still plan to get a jog and puller.
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 01:45:43 AM
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Pliers can scratch drivers up.It'll work, just scratches occur making wheel cleaning a nightmare and using fingers won't work unless they're so loose, expanded or on wrong shaft.Pliers can also flatten a area of the flange. I know from experience.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 11:59:18 AM
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Hyde,
Not only does pliers scratch the drivers, BUT you can't pull "straight" enough without distorting the metal or plastic without some sort of out of round issue when its done. You would be better off getting an Arbor Press, OR use a drill press with a rod in the chuck thats small enough to press the axle out of the driver, and then to press it back in, remove the rod from the chuck, and close the chuck all the way, and then flip over the driver and push the axle into the driver center. SLOWLY, NEVER done fast as fast can slip the driver or the axle and will bend the axle or snap out the spokes of the driver, OR worse on a diesel driver, marr the axle center edge which will elongate the hole, which will make the wheel "lobb" when in motion and will create a wobble.....
The part from NWSL you should have is a quarter....As a small drill press or Arbor Press can be used one and the same, which will do the exact same thing as a puller will!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 5:04:08 PM
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Thanks for all your help guys! Alright so I need the jig and puller, that'll be fine.
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 6:43:54 PM
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Not to mention you have no control over which wheel you pull off unless you grip the axle with pliers, and I don't even wanna think about how they would mar it.
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 10:28:15 PM
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I have my ways Nelson.....
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Posted - December 08 2012 : 10:50:13 PM
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I know, that's what scares me.
I believe in improvising too, but this is one case where the proper tool is essential.
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Posted - December 09 2012 : 12:19:23 AM
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Don't worry, I know what im doing the only time I've used my fingers is on loose drivers. The pliers was more of a possibility. I don't have any wheels that need quartering as if right now thankfully.
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Posted - December 09 2012 : 12:41:29 AM
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Just get the big hammer. 
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