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 Posted - September 23 2011 : 11:02:23 PM
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I've been very impressed with everyone's PT remotoring efforts here and so I decided to give it a go. My first attempt was almost successful, until I broke off one of the gear axles. This is my second attempt, and the motor and wheels run really nice and quiet, but I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with.
The first question is about the first spur gear (the one that engages the pinion gear). Under load, it wants to climb off it's axle.
Is that normal? I'm wondering if I'm missing something in my conversion. I'm thinking of adding a retainer that presses against the center of the spur gear. Something like a strip of brass.
The other is about the center axle. The motor I used is the larger R14 model and it gets in the way of the center wheel. It didn't matter for this installation since it is a GP20. But I'd like to remotor some 3-axle trucks too, and I wonder what you might have done to solve the problem.
Cheers, Thomas
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 05:46:53 AM
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quote:This is my second attempt, and the motor and wheels run really nice and quiet, but I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with.
The first question is about the first spur gear (the one that engages the pinion gear). Under load, it wants to climb off it's axle.
Is that normal? I'm wondering if I'm missing something in my conversion.
Cheers, Thomas
Originally posted by Redwoods - September 23 2011 : 11:02:23 PM
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Yup, you're missing something, Thomas - the pinion gear, the ORIGINAl one, has a lip on it, the one you have doesn't. that allows the other gear to climb off.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 07:10:09 AM
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Good call Jerry!
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 07:20:34 AM
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I repowered an Alco Super 630 and I had lucked on to a thin motor that allowed plenty of space for the center axle.
Good luck!
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 07:25:26 AM
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| That looks great; nice job Thomas! I used the same motor on an Alco 630 earlier, and I ran into the problem with clearance. The frame of the RS14 motor is too big. I had to turn down the brass pickup wheel in order to clear the motor, which gave me two pickup axles and an idler axle, instead of three pickup axles. I think that if I did another, that I would use the smaller motor to avoid that. There are some other guys here on the forum that used the smaller motor in the 630, and they did awesome work.
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 12:47:37 PM
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Everyone, thanks for your insights. You are right Jerry, that lip on the pinion is the key to the spur gear not falling off. I didn't think much of it because I've seen so many Tyco with pinion mounted so the lip was on the inside... I thought it might have another purpose. Of course, I have also seen many locos with the pinion gear missing altogether. 
I used a slot car pinion (8 tooth, 64 pitch) because I didn't want to mess with trying to drill out the Tyco pinion to fit the .078 shaft. I guess without the lip, my next move is to fashion a retainer bar. I'll let you all know what I come up with. 
Fritdude, I saw your post and I like your solution with the center wheel. I'm going to play around with raising the motor and perhaps using a slightly larger pinion--those slot car folks have every size and tooth count--to see if I can get the motor out of the way. And I'll look out for those other motors. Maybe it's time to buy a batch of CDROM drives and see what I find.
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 1:51:22 PM
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Hi Thomas,
Just be aware that if you increase the size of the pinion, you'll increase the speed of the truck. The only replacement I did was on a Chattanooga tender, so I could turn down the plastic dummy wheel to clear the motor without a problem.
I would keep the pinion you're using, which looks sturdier than the original and made for a 2mm shaft (where did you get it, Btw?). One thing you could do to retain the reduction gear is cut a strip of sheet brass (phosphor bronze [wiper material] would be even better), bend it into an L and screw it to the top of the truck block so that it reaches down and keeps the center of the gear from walking off the pin.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 4:22:41 PM
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quote:
I would keep the pinion you're using, which looks sturdier than the original and made for a 2mm shaft (where did you get it, Btw?). One thing you could do to retain the reduction gear is cut a strip of sheet brass (phosphor bronze [wiper material] would be even better), bend it into an L and screw it to the top of the truck block so that it reaches down and keeps the center of the gear from walking off the pin.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 24 2011Â :Â 1:51:22 PM
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I like your idea for a retainer. I think I have some phosphor bronze in the tool box. I need somewhere to solder a wire, so I think I'll cut the retainer so that it has a solder tab on the top. It can do double duty.
I got my pinion gear from Mick Antonelli at slotcarcity.com. Here is the page:
http://www.slotcarcity.com/catalog.php?category=89
BTW, I figured out the pitch by measuring the spur gear (it was 11/16" diameter) and dividing that into the number of gear teeth (44). The result was 64, so that is how I knew what pitch to buy.
Edited by - Redwoods on September 24 2011 4:25:59 PM
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Posted - September 24 2011 : 7:10:25 PM
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Hey RW:
Is there no way to create a groove on the shaft and use a cir-clip?
Just a thought.
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - September 25 2011 : 1:01:59 PM
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would loctite on the gear shaft work, I wonder?
plan to do my 630 conversion in a few months when I get home, I'll be using these motors
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260746086041?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
those look like the same motors Thomas(redwoods) has...are they?
if so, can I see a head on view? looks like Id have to cavity out the truck more for a better fit, since I am going 3 axle...
love the frankentorque threads as they help me learn more before I go tearing into a PT (and having eleventybillion shells for sale!  )
Ray
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
Edited by - rgcw5 on September 25 2011 1:04:44 PM
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Posted - September 27 2011 : 10:21:05 PM
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Gareth and Ray, I like your ideas, though I'm reluctant to do anything since I have already broken one off. I'm gun shy now. 
I really do enjoy this sort of tinkering... it didn't really take much time at all to dremel out enough material to fit the motor, maybe 30 minutes in all. I haven't had a chance this week to do any more, but I'm hoping that I will have it all finished by the weekend.
- Thomas
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Posted - September 27 2011 : 10:49:58 PM
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Get a hold of Jerry,
He's an AMC Car Cult guy (you're old enough to remember AMC's right? Can you say "Matador"?) Anyway he's also the resident PowerTorque Pimp!
He can hook you up with PT's likely!?
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - September 28 2011 : 05:56:20 AM
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Here's a picture of a Super 630 with a CD replacement repower. I was lucky enough to find a thinner motor that cleared the middle axle completely.
None of this CD replacement power would be possible without the groundbreaking work of member Ray M.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 28 2011 : 08:17:11 AM
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`Tis true, Ray deserves a lot of credit.
He definitely cleared the path on this trail!
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - September 28 2011 : 12:57:07 PM
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What I have done with this set up is solder a washer on the pinion gear so it keeps the idler gear in its place. Be sure to use grease and it can't come off. I used a washer big enough to catch the shoulder toward the center of the idler. Works for me.
Ken
FIDDLEHEAD RAILWAY CO.
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Posted - September 28 2011 : 1:07:57 PM
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Another idea that works for me when you break off one of the gear posts is to drill out the stub and replace it with a brass post using lock tight. You have to be careful where you drill. I have a holder for my Dremel (that I made) and slowly drill it out the metal is very soft.
FIDDLEHEAD RAILWAY CO.
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Posted - December 08 2011 : 7:37:36 PM
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If you all ever need these motors I found a website with free shipping.
http://www.accessoryon.com/en/sony-accessories/42-2x-sony-repair-parts-ps2-original-h-handle-motor-a-pair-gsy031.html
Thanks for all of the very helpful information and does anyone know where to get those little pinion gears with the lip?
John
Iquote:I've been very impressed with everyone's PT remotoring efforts here and so I decided to give it a go. My first attempt was almost successful, until I broke off one of the gear axles. This is my second attempt, and the motor and wheels run really nice and quiet, but I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Redwoods/pinion.jpg
The first question is about the first spur gear (the one that engages the pinion gear). Under load, it wants to climb off it's axle.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Redwoods/pinion2.jpg
Is that normal? I'm wondering if I'm missing something in my conversion. I'm thinking of adding a retainer that presses against the center of the spur gear. Something like a strip of brass.
The other is about the center axle. The motor I used is the larger R14 model and it gets in the way of the center wheel. It didn't matter for this installation since it is a GP20. But I'd like to remotor some 3-axle trucks too, and I wonder what you might have done to solve the problem.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Redwoods/cdrom-motor.jpg
Cheers, Thomas
Originally posted by Redwoods - September 23 2011 : 11:02:23 PM
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John S. Cunningham
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Posted - December 09 2011 : 12:34:59 AM
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John, the only way to get them is to take them off an old PT truck. That was Tyco's design to keep the reduction gear on, but you can make a simple retainer as I described above.
Interesting link to those motors, but I think their voltage rating may be too low. I wish they posted the data sheets, because they have longer shafts than most you come across.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 1:55:12 PM
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NickelPlate, I took your idea and here is what I came up with. It works perfectly. I fashioned a retainer and then drilled and tapped for a 2-56 screw. I also filed the edges of the retainer so that they were smooth and would not cut the plastic idler.
The retainer is positioned a hair above the idler gear so that it does not touch it. But it keeps the idler from climbing off the pinion.
Thanks again for your advice.
-Thomas
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 6:10:34 PM
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Nicely done, Thomas. How does the truck sound with that pinion? Is it any quieter than the stock one?
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 10:02:11 PM
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Great idea Nelson. I tried it, but, I couldn't get a good weld with the solder so I used JB Weld and it worked like a charm. I am no solderer, yet, so I will have to keep practicing.
John
quote:Hi Thomas,
Just be aware that if you increase the size of the pinion, you'll increase the speed of the truck. The only replacement I did was on a Chattanooga tender, so I could turn down the plastic dummy wheel to clear the motor without a problem.
I would keep the pinion you're using, which looks sturdier than the original and made for a 2mm shaft (where did you get it, Btw?). One thing you could do to retain the reduction gear is cut a strip of sheet brass (phosphor bronze [wiper material] would be even better), bend it into an L and screw it to the top of the truck block so that it reaches down and keeps the center of the gear from walking off the pin.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 24 2011Â :Â 1:51:22 PM
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John S. Cunningham
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 10:49:18 PM
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John, you can't solder to Zamac, which is what that truck block is made of. Screws or cement like you used are the only options.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 11:47:50 PM
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quote:
I concur with John. I've received these from accessoryon, and some of the motors that I got from them are smoother and quieter than others--there seem to be two types that they send. Since the price is so low, I recommend ordering several at a time. I ordered 6 for about $7.50 incl shipping.
Here is another, more slender motor that is rated to 6v:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G18524
I think these are from thin profile CD drives, but I'm just guessing. I ordered a couple and they are very smooth, but I think I will be limiting the upper voltage.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Redwoods/IMG_1948.jpg
NickelPlate, the new motor and pinion is quieter than a stock drive, but here is still some detectable gear rattling as it runs. I think that is just a matter of having all those idler gears in motion.
-Thomas
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Posted - December 10 2011 : 11:58:49 PM
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quote:NickelPlate, I took your idea and here is what I came up with. It works perfectly. I fashioned a retainer and then drilled and tapped for a 2-56 screw. I also filed the edges of the retainer so that they were smooth and would not cut the plastic idler.
The retainer is positioned a hair above the idler gear so that it does not touch it. But it keeps the idler from climbing off the pinion.
Thanks again for your advice.
-Thomas
Originally posted by Redwoods - December 10 2011 : 1:55:12 PM
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put a little grease on inside of gear to keep from loosing any plastic even though you filed retainer smooth - Brian
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