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 Posted - May 25 2011 : 8:30:30 PM
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I just received my first two AHM engines both are 3 pole and they are loud. I don,t know what year they are. One has the AHM in side a triangle inside a circle, the other has AHM inside the triangle and tempo printed next to it. Both have two lead weights one in center and one in the rear. What can I do to cut down on the noise they make?
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Posted - May 25 2011 : 8:58:01 PM
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Buy some OLDER AHMs with 5-pole motors, and replace them.  . Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do with some of them. The 3-pole motors are just that way. Even the 5-pole aren't very quiet, either, but they're smoother. Just something you learn to live with. Possibly some gear work would help silence them, too, but I haven't tried to do that. Most of my AHM's are BL-2 engines, and most early units came with 5-pole motors, the later ones with 3-pole.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - May 25 2011 : 11:21:21 PM
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Ok, I get the 5 pole motor for improved running, but here is a question. Since I only have had Tyco and Bachmann engines from the early to mid-70s. Was AHM a level above or below if we go by term that (Tyco were just toys and not real trains).
Edited by - Christopher on May 25 2011 11:22:50 PM
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Posted - May 26 2011 : 07:28:05 AM
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quote:Ok,... but here is a question. Was AHM a level above or below if we go by term that (Tyco were just toys and not real trains).
Originally posted by Christopher - May 25 2011 : 11:21:21 PM
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Oh, they were above Tyco and Bachmann, in my opinion. Not by far, but enough. The trucks were tighter, the roadnames more realistic, AHM didn't use shiny paint or plastic but a more realistic muted / flat look compared to Tyco and Bachmann. Just look at how shiny Tyco and Bachmann look compared to AHM. Definitely more toy quality than realism there. And AHM engines had real frames and better designed gearing than either Tyco or Bachmann. Noisy, yes, but a lot of engines were back then. Technology just hadn't been wasted yet on scale trains. :) Then again, many older makes had 5 and even 7-pole motors in the '50's and 60's, too. I'd definitely give AHM the nod of higher quality and more realism than the Ty / Bach trains.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - May 28 2011 : 01:11:22 AM
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I understand, you are correct, I never thought of it that way. The AHMs have windows and grab bars. The frame vers the pop in trucks and the paint does look much more like the real engines. I still love my Tycos even if they are toys
Tonight i started to play with the tranny of the noisest AHM, I found moving the gear on the motor reduced the total noise of the engine. I still have to play with it more to find the perfect location to produce top speed and lowest noise.
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Posted - May 28 2011 : 10:27:19 AM
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quote:
Tonight i started to play with the tranny of the noisest AHM, I found moving the gear on the motor reduced the total noise of the engine. I still have to play with it more to find... lowest noise.
Originally posted by Christopher - May 28 2011 : 01:11:22 AM
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Yes, they were all mass-produced back then, so fine-tuning is left to the individual modeler to bring out the best in each of these vintage engines. Gear engagement is critical to driveline longevity ( and quietness, too ), as you've found out. Good luck with that, and hopefully you'll be able to quiet it down a bit more with some work.
jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - June 02 2011 : 8:42:49 PM
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How to quiet them? UNPLUG the power pack!
A drop of oil may help a little bit.
I have yet to figure out, after 30 years, how quiet my AHM C-Liner.
The noise grew on me long ago, sometimes i just run it just to hear its growling roar again.
If you have an AHM,,,then who needs DCC with Sound
The funny thing is,,it Does kinda sorta sound like a diesel.
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Posted - June 02 2011 : 9:42:23 PM
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quote:How to quiet them? UNPLUG the power pack!
I have yet to figure out, after 30 years, how quiet my AHM C-Liner.
Originally posted by jbsmith966Â -Â June 02 2011Â :Â 8:42:49 PM
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Part of the problem is gear angle engagement. Most of the old engines used a straight-cut gear face, ie 90 degrees to the shaft. Modern model train engines use a bevel cut ( offset to one side slightly ) so the whole gear doesn't engage at once ( and cause noise in doing so). A slight bevel allows the gears to slide together and mesh easier, so less noise. Another improvement would be to bow the gear teeth a bit, to allow only a center contact patch, not the entire tooth face. But that's asking a bit much of those tiny gears. But the design has come a LONG way since the '50's and '60's, although the Lionel hustler has offset teeth, so they knew what to do, but those are brass, not plastic. All you can really do is grease them up some and enjoy the vintage sounds they make.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - June 02 2011 : 10:41:09 PM
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quote:
The funny thing is,,it Does kinda sorta sound like a diesel.
Originally posted by jbsmith966Â -Â June 02 2011Â :Â 8:42:49 PM
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I have a matched pair that has a delightful low whine, like turbochargers kicking in, just as it heads up a hill. Wouldn't clean that up for the world....
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Posted - June 02 2011 : 11:34:19 PM
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After several attempts to get the correct alinement of the gears. I made a simple tool out of an old book store card. This allowed me to run the engine and adjust the gears on my bench.
Now they still scream but run much better.
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Posted - July 14 2011 : 8:05:03 PM
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I just noticed this thread. The 3 pole motors in the C-Liners and BL2's that were used from the 70's onward are noisy as heck, and it comes from the shaft cogging inside the bearings, which are skimpier than the ones in the much better 5 pole versions from the 60's. If you grasp the motor shaft, you'll find that you can move it from side to side inside the bearing slightly, so there's enough play there for it to rattle up a storm when running. It can be quieted down with heavy oil or light grease on the bearings, but once it dissipates the growl comes back.
The gearing is actually quiet, but the fact that they used the worm to hold the truck on causes problems in alignment, especially if the worm is split (and a lot of them do) and slips on the shaft. The 60's version had a brass worm and a ring with 5 ball bearings between the worm and the truck, but in the later ones it's just plastic on plastic. What I do is put two large NWSL washers (# 114-4) between the worm and the truck housing (you'll need to ream the washers a tiny bit to get them over the shaft), then make sure that the worm is on tight enough that the truck turns freely, but doesn't flop around vertically. Teflon grease works very well on the plastic gearing. You can reuse a split worm by degreasing it and gluing it in place with CA.
Here's one I remotored with a can.
The motor is just glued to the bottom plate of the old motor, and it runs smooth and very quiet. It's a perfect speed match for my repowered RS2, because they have identical motors and gearing.
The Tyco Depot
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scaro
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 6:16:01 PM
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hi
i just joined this forum because i saw these threads on the AHM RS2.
i was encouraged to see comments that that mehanotechnika used the same truck for EMDs and Alcos so i assume the wheelbase is proably the same (in real life an AAR B truck is 9'4", a bit longer than an EMD B- truck which is 9'.)
could anyone tell me the wheelbase of the RS2 truck? millimetres or inches are fine.
also i'd like to know how high and how wide the gear tower is on the truck.
i'd appreciate knowing the diameter of the axles. i am hoping to replace them with NWSL wheels.
i would also like to know if the RS2 truck can be narrow gauged to 13.5mm. this is for a scratchbuilding project ... and it's kind of hard to explain.
regards,
ben
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 6:25:34 PM
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Off Topic, But Welcome To The Forum!
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scaro
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 6:53:10 PM
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thanks for the welcome. having looked around a bit, i wonder if the C424 might be a better truck to use than the RS2- the vertically mounted motor in the RS2 looks like it might take up a lot of room in the shell i'm using.
regards, ben
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 6:56:26 PM
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Ben,
Look at Nelson's posts above and watch for him to comment. He's tied up for a few days so not sure when he will respond. He's worked on these, So have a few of the guys....
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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scaro
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 8:38:26 PM
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thanks gareth
looks like i do need some clarification from an expert as there appear to be about two versions of the RS2, one with a conventional, centrally mounted motor and one with the motor mounted on the truck ...
regards
ben
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Posted - October 05 2011 : 9:01:04 PM
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Scaro;
Never seen the truck mounted one. I have an AHM powered RS-2 and one of their GP-18's. A guy who has also worked with these some, re-gearing though I can't remember if he's repowered them... Hypoponera.
Have a look at thess threads....
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7598&SearchTerms=ahm,motor
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=316&SearchTerms=ahm,motor
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=319&SearchTerms=ahm,motor
You might also try sending a PM to Ray Marinaccio. You'll see him in those threads as well.
Hope that helps...
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
Edited by - romcat on October 05 2011 9:33:16 PM
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scaro
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Posted - October 07 2011 : 04:55:47 AM
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thanks gareth
what might be handy (though i can't drag one up on the forum) is a pic of the current dis-assembled AHM/IHC 2 axle truck. i am assuming that it's the same for RS2/GP18/C415/C424 but that's not always a safe thing to do in model railroading. for my application i need to regauge it and add a dummy or simulated centre axle so looking at the guts of the thing is essential.
cheers, ben
Edited by - scaro on October 11 2011 7:39:29 PM
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Posted - October 07 2011 : 08:12:17 AM
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Hey Ben:
Have a look at the lower part of this page for your loco & it's diagram:
http://hoseeker.com/ahminstructions.html
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
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Posted - October 07 2011 : 11:00:43 AM
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Hey Ben,
Be careful as those trucks are NOT the same. They changed over time.
Mehano made an early version of the 4-axle truck set up that had a dummy front truck and a powered truck with the motor mounted vertically. This is found in old C415s, RS-2s, and RS-11s.
The later version made by Mehano has all trucks geared with a motor centrally mounted in the frame. So later made RS-2s, RS-11s, GP18s, C415s have these. And other then the sideframes, they are identical internally and externally.
BUT... the C424 is completely different from the above locos. It is made by Roco and the truck shares nothing with the Mehano units. The C424 does share commonality with the old Roco made FA-2 and RF-16.
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scaro
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Posted - October 07 2011 : 12:13:45 PM
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thank you for this.
i suspect that the ones with the vertically mounted motor are not what i want but they are very old and i am sure the stuff on sale at UK exhibitions is more likely the 1980s or 90s versions.
in N scale, mehano truck casings were like two halves of a box that accommodated gears and had holes for the axles. do any of the mehano built HO units have this arrangement? it's quite handy if you want to narrow the gauge of a truck.
regards, ben
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Posted - October 07 2011 : 11:18:28 PM
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Yes, I recommend you avoid the units with the vertically mounted motor. They can be made to run well, but it ain't so easy. The all-wheel drive units are much easier to work with.
If you use the link Romcat posted and go to diesel diagrams, look down to "Alco 1000 1977". It will show you an exploded drawing of the truck assembly. The Alco 1000 and SW-1 had only a single powered truck due to space limitations. But the truck design is common to all the late production Mehano 2-axle trucks.
The late production Mehano 3-axle trucks are of a simialar design, but add a couple extra spur gears as well as a 3rd geared axle. The early production version is actually identical to the 2-axle design, but with an unpowered axle added.
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scaro
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Posted - October 09 2011 : 05:03:22 AM
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thank you Hypoponera
i wonder do the SW1 and 'Alco 1000' (assume it's supposed to be an S2) have the correct 8' wheelbase truck?
also, would any of these AHM/IHC two axle trucks be amenable to having a centre equi-distantly spaced third wheelset added?
i got a cheap atlas GP7 mech yesterday as it is the right wheelbase for what i want and is definitely narrowable, but adding a centre wheelset is not possible, unless it's a cosmetic, simulated one.
(the reason i want this is because i'm trying to make a three axle truck in TT scale that has a 31.5mm spacing (exactly right for a blomberg truck.)
one thing i am assuming here is that the AHM/IHC EMD road units had a correct wheelbase truck in the first place if it's a scale 9' in HO it ought to be 31.5mm but not sure that is the case?
regards, ben
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Posted - October 09 2011 : 10:32:38 AM
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quote:
i got a cheap atlas GP7 mech and is definitely narrowable,
(the reason i want this is because i'm trying to make a three axle truck in TT scale that has a 31.5mm spacing (exactly right for a blomberg truck.)
regards, ben
Originally posted by scaro - October 09 2011 : 05:03:22 AM
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What, another TT guy in here? How is that possible? Hey, Ben, keep me posted, are you trying to make powered TT equipment? Because I'm DEFINITELY interested in any progress you make here! I have more than a few On Track Maisto diecast trains, closest to TT scale in American design anywhere I've seen. Been wanting to power those, and put TT trucks under them. I finally ordered from China a pair of TT trucks thru auction, and need to dig out a TT piece to try them on. Haven't figured out how to make power for the diesels yet.
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - October 09 2011 : 11:47:46 PM
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| All of the Mehano 2-axle trucks are the same wheel base. I don't know which, if any, is the correct wheelbase. And no, they won't take to a middle axle being added. The spur gears need that space. As you mentioned, you might be able to add a third axle as long as it is cosmetic only and takes up no internal space.
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Posted - October 10 2011 : 11:24:20 AM
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Wear hearing protectors. Or just dont listen. If you cant do this then COG !
(clean, oil, greese)
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on October 10 2011 11:26:22 AM
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scaro
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 08:06:05 AM
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Hypnoponera,
Another thing I wonder...(he says ) is whether there is any HO mech where the gears sit at the same level as the axles? This may make it possible to replace that centre gear with a geared axle and so get a three axle TT truck that way.
However, I got a cheap Atlas HO GP7 on the weekend and I suspect it is typical in that the centre gear is positioned slightly higher than the drive axles, presumably so that it is positioned in such a way as to engage with the gear that takes power from the worm.
Ben
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 3:48:59 PM
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| That's a great idea Ben. Alas, I don't know of any 2-axle trucks that are built in such a away. How lont of a truck did you need? Athearn makes a 3-axle truck for the PA-1 that has the wheels equally spaced apart. And the truck is easily able to be narrow-guaged by it's design. Not sure if it can be narrowed far enough for your plan. But you may be out of luck regarding a 2-axle to add a third axle into.
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 4:30:32 PM
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Ben,
You can see in this thread that the old Mehano Alco power truck has idler gears like you describe, but adding a center set of wheels wouldn't be possible because the spacing is off center, and one wheelset is in the way.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7136
Like Michael said, I'd be more inclined to try it with Athearn trucks, which are much more adaptable.
The Tyco Depot
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scaro
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 8:04:32 PM
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hi
i have tried looking through the hoseeker uploads of exploded diagrams of athearn blomberg trucks and can't see one which would be amenable to having a symmetrically spaced, centre wheelset added ... can anyone please advise? i'm entirely ignorant of HO scale ...
regards, ben
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Posted - October 11 2011 : 10:02:19 PM
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It wouldn't be easy to add a 3rd axle to any 2 axle truck. On an Athearn you'd probably have to reposition the idlers, even for a dummy axle.
The Tyco Depot
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