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 Posted - February 09 2011 : 8:53:57 PM
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Hi guys I am trying to identify my grandfather's CNW EMP F series unit.
It has no Identifing marks on it at all (no brand names)
Engine # 4179 (usually brands tag a certain model with a number that runs accross that model)
here we go...
General shot of locomotive...
with the cover removed (note: the driving motor is in the rear truck, the front truck is free wheel)
side image (note the missing steps on the end of the locomotive)
underside of the locomotive (front truck is to the left)
top of the front: 30+ years have taken a toll on the Air horns
and the front guard
another shot of the front end. (which i want to replace)
there is a spot up front for a coupler, but that has been gone as long as i can remember.
The Unit itself is in decent shape for the shell, almost dead as far as the motor is concerned, it always ran like crap 30 years ago and was looked at by the staff at H&R trains here in Pinellas Park, FL it got a cleaning, but that was almost 20 years ago.
The Future of this Unit:
I basically want to do what another member here is doing with a Chattanooga GP-20 unit (Save the shell and put new technology under it (with restoring the front guard from probably a donor F series. the big question is: what do i do to at least get it running decently? Is there a replacement motor assembly (DCC or not) to put her from being more of a display piece to an active member of my Fleet when i set up again
Sorry for the grainy images- they are from my cellphone
thanks Guys
Mike.
I added the engine # in the edit
Edited by - Sundowner on February 09 2011 8:55:52 PM
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Posted - February 09 2011 : 11:27:10 PM
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The design of the motor and truck cover plates pretty much identifies it as a Tempo / AHM model. That black plastic vertical motor is a dead giveaway. Mehanoteknika is another name sometimes on these models, or RSO. That motor has the brass bushing that later ones don't, so it's definitely a '60's motor. Check out this link from the HOSeekers.net site, I think it's the FM C-liner engine you have.
http://www.hoseeker.net/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahmfmbl2pg4.jpg
HOseeker is on the Home page of Tyco Forums, just click on Home, and you'll see the ad in the center after you scroll down a bit, click on it, and look up AHM. That's where the above link came from. These motors are very fixable, some are 5-pole, and just need some work. One area that may be of help is that the spring tension of the brush arms can be too high, I've gotten my engines like this to run better by putting a very small tiewrap between the two brush arms,and forcing them apart, which reduces friction. Must be behind the middle fulcrum area. Also check to see if the brushes are worn too far, may not be touching enough. But the tight spring tension can cause these engines to be balky.
Jerry in Virginia
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 09 2011 : 11:56:17 PM
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It does look like a FM C-liner in the drive department- but the shell tells another story- The FM-C's had an extra window past the forward doors (mine does not) they don't have the stirrups on the sides either (mine should be there- they are broken off- all of them) plus the number is way off hoseeker data lists the FM-C's with a 5000 block number and this one has a 4000 block number.
we are closing in on the info on this locomotive- we are close
thanks Jerry!!
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 12:13:34 AM
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| upon further inspection of the unit, the nose number placards read "7009" when a light is shone thru them from inside the shell
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 07:15:00 AM
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quote:It does look like a FM C-liner in the drive department- but the shell tells another story- .
we are closing in on the info on this locomotive- we are close
thanks Jerry!!
Originally posted by Sundowner - February 09 2011 : 11:56:17 PM
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True, the shell may be something else - but the drive is DEFINITELY of the Tempo / Mehano family! those companies often sold their pieces to other companies who made their own shells to use, I think. Can't help you with the shell,but the driveline is definitely known type, and fixable. Just look for older Tempo and AHM chassis's for parts.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 12:25:24 PM
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I have one of these engine also, on the bottom of my has made in yugoslavia. Also have B-Unit. There are some B-Units on E-bay today. One seller state's it's a Penn line?
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 1:35:21 PM
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quote:There are some B-Units on E-bay today. One seller state's it's a Penn line?
Originally posted by Defunct RRÂ -Â February 10 2011Â :Â 12:25:24 PM
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Penn Line I believe bought other maker's engines and put their own shells on them. So entirely plausible that they have a Tempo / Mehano chassis and their own engine shell. I don't really have any Penn Line engines, other than an all-metal GG1 shell only, so I can't say as to whether they used the vertical motor chassis , but very likely.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 1:52:37 PM
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all penn line f7s i have are like one shown ken
bev bel did a cn&w in the 90s
Edited by - catfordken on February 10 2011 4:08:42 PM
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 4:22:45 PM
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quote:all penn line f7s i have are like one shown ken
bev bel did a cn&w in the 90s
Originally posted by catfordken - February 10 2011 : 1:52:37 PM
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Bev Bel did use Athearn and AHM engine drives. SO that makes sense. The Penn line you show has the geared drive on the end, seen that before, I think Marx had that, too. Or similar. And I THINK Globe might have used that F7 driveline style,too.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 4:38:08 PM
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jerry do you remember this,check the link out ken
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9194&SearchTerms=f9
Edited by - catfordken on February 10 2011 4:40:10 PM
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 6:38:19 PM
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quote:jerry do you remember this,check the link out ken
topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9194&SearchTerms=f9
Originally posted by catfordken - February 10 2011 : 4:38:08 PM
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Yes, now I do. :) I always need help remembering.
Jerry
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Posted - February 10 2011 : 6:45:38 PM
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| just thought that cn&w looked very similar to your santa fe unit,but the blurred pictures are not helping ken
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Posted - February 11 2011 : 02:53:28 AM
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| Well i will be taking new photo's of everything (batteries in the digital camera are dead right now- so i should have a better pic or two up by tomorrow afternoon at the latest.
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Posted - February 11 2011 : 03:18:17 AM
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Thanks to Catfordken's link above and his other link:
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/lifelikemodeltrainscollectorsresource/id39.html
I think I've nailed down what it is...
There is a listing for a Chicago Northwestern on that page, and after seeing the Pic of the train set in the Box i vividly remember the Blue Powerpack that was with the set
Thanks Guys!!
I will still take better quality pics of the Loco after i wake up.
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Posted - February 11 2011 : 06:21:50 AM
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quote:Thanks to Catfordken's link above and his other link:
I think I've nailed down what it is...
Originally posted by Sundowner - February 11 2011 : 03:18:17 AM
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Again, it's an AHM relative, being reused by another company, in this case Lifelike. Just the shell changes, the driveline is pretty much the same as the Mehano / Tempo / AHM chassis. So much incest....
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 11 2011 : 1:07:06 PM
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Better pics
Front end from above
Drive unit
Better Side shot
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Posted - March 30 2011 : 12:38:34 AM
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Engine is Mehano via AT&T or some other maker. Life-Like sold a few of the Mehano engines, but they got their F-unit shell from Penn Line and it's a close clone of the Athearn or Tyco shell; but with funny short "shrunken" side steps. Every one I've ever seen has either a pancake motor (later) or a big open pittman-type motor inside driving the rear truck only. This goes back to the Penn Line era drives, and includes the Conrail one I got as a kid in the early 1980s. They're famous for splitting the cup on the motor shaft so it just spins and can't drive the locomotive anymore.
So far as I know the only Mehanos offered by Life Like were the C628, C415, and the USRA Pacific.
I kind of think the Mehano F9 shell is the result of a retool to correct the problems with their FT. Just who sold it besides AT&T I'm not sure short of sitting down with a pile of 1970s model train magazines looking through the advertising. But that shell with a new drive turned up as a Model Power item for a while (with a strange drive that was sort of a cross between the pancake and the early Tyco diesel drive - a cheap can motor was part of the rear truck assembly). I'm sure it still exists somewhere, in limbo with the rest of the Mehano tooling somewhere between Yugoslavia and China.
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