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 Posted - December 29 2009 : 6:55:54 PM
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Hello all,
After being a serious model railroader for the last 35 years, I have returned to my roots and have started collecting Tyco trains. I just finished refurbishing my first Tyco engine, a "red box" era GP 20 I purchased on eBay. Out of the box the locomotive did not work so I disassembled the mechanism, cleaned the wheels and commutator, and lubricated the worm gears. The result was a rather smooth running locomotive, however during operation it smokes a little and produces an ozone odor. I figure the smoke is from the lubricating oil I put on the motor armature but where is the ozone smell coming from? My Athearn engines do not produce the same odor that the Tyco engine does. Does any know why this is? Is the ozone smell a sign of something wrong with the motor? Any info, advice, or opinions are welcome...
Thanks
Scott
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Posted - December 29 2009 : 8:03:14 PM
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SMELLS GOOD DON'T IT The ozone smell is normal. All of my Tycos make that smell, as well as a few other brands that I have. Now that you've mentioned it though, I'm kind of curious as well to know what causes it
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Posted - December 29 2009 : 8:43:59 PM
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| A little smell is normal and nostalgic, but too much, especially with the smoking you mention, might be something else. My guesses--too much lube oil that got onto the brushes, armature, etc.--a lube oil that is not synthetic and 'plastic compatible'--or too much strain on the motor for some reason. What does the loco sound like when it runs? These 'red box' diesels should be quite quiet if nicely lubed and broken-in.
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Posted - December 29 2009 : 9:19:50 PM
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Oh, she is a quiet runner actually. There is a little gear noise that can be heard in the lower speed range, a kind of growling noise but that should be normal. This locomotive performs smoothly while running light and while pulling up to 9 cars without any noticeable change in performance. I believe the smoke is from the light oil I used near the armature, this suggests that the windings are getting pretty hot in normal operation, but I think it is normal for these mechanisms to run rather warm.
I would also have to agree that the Ozone smell is actually quite pleasant scent, it brought back memories of my first Tyco trains when I was five years old. What I don't understand is why the Mantua/Tyco design gives off a strong odor while Athearn products of the same vintage hardly smell at all. Do Athearn motors run cooler than Mantua/Tyco motors? If so why? I suspect one reason may be that Athearn motors may have more windings in their armatures than Mantua/Tyco motors. Does motor heat also produce more ozone? I would appreciate any hypothesis that any one out there may have...
Scott
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Posted - December 30 2009 : 12:27:07 AM
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| I know others here can comment with more knowledge than me, but I'm assuming the Athearn motors run less warm and smelly because a) they are larger b) have better motor bearings, and c) because of a much lower gearing in the trucks (and sometimes flywheels), there's less load on the motor. Just my guesses.
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Posted - December 30 2009 : 01:12:32 AM
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| I am not sure what causes the Tyco train odor. But I am certainly glad it happens!! Walt
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Posted - December 30 2009 : 01:56:39 AM
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Is that smell really ozone? I didn't think the MU-2 brushes sparked that much. I always put it down to a mix of oil, hot metal and windings, but it may be.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 30 2009 : 7:00:59 PM
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I have noticed something similar with my trains. The TYCOs do seem to have much more odor.
Could be the way the armatures are wound that causes more arcing.
From running tests I have noticed that as a general rule my TYCO locos draw 50% to almost twice the amps as an Athearn at the same speed.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - December 31 2009 : 12:20:25 AM
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After my last post I broke out an old MU-2 C-430, and it has no odor after running for an hour. I had given the power truck on this unit a long bath in alcohol and a thorough cleaning, because it was having wild fluctuations in speed that ultimately turned out to be something wonky with the old brushes. With new brushes it runs fine, and has no discernible smell anymore, so maybe that odor is due to lubricants or some other reside left by the manufacturing process.
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Posted - December 31 2009 : 01:44:41 AM
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| I've noticed the smell much more on the AHM locomotives I've worked on. Sounds like the Tyco has some oil getting burned.
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bkoch
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Posted - January 06 2010 : 10:01:15 PM
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Hi Scott. The ozone is formed in the electrical discharge (arcing) between the brushes and the commutator. When the brushes are new, they don't seat well on the commutator and the current is forced to flow through a few small spots where contact is reliably maintained. You get more arcing, heat, and ozone formation in this situation than you do when the brushes are worn in and make more thorough contact with the commutator. Oil contamination at the interface can affect arcing, too, as it compromises the current path between brush and commutator.
When you break in a Tyco locomotive, most of the job is getting the brushes to seat. For power torque motors in particular, it's a dangerous period of time. If pushed too hard through the break-in, the high brush resistance can create enough heat to burn up the insulation on the windings. The result is white smoke accompanied by that peculiar smell of toasting electronic components. Since yours is an MU, you might want to check the alignment of the brushes with the commutator to make sure they are squared up, and then look at the wear surfaces on them. If they look relatively new, you may want to keep the throttle setting on the moderate side until they run in some more.
As for the difference between Tyco and Athearn, I have found that Athearn used much softer, pre-shaped brushes in their motors, and higher spring pressure as well. These factors hasten break-in and create good, consistent continuity between the brushes and commutator. The design and material selection minimizes arcing and ozone smell.
Regards,
Brian
quote:Hello all,
After being a serious model railroader for the last 35 years, I have returned to my roots and have started collecting Tyco trains. I just finished refurbishing my first Tyco engine, a "red box" era GP 20 I purchased on eBay. Out of the box the locomotive did not work so I disassembled the mechanism, cleaned the wheels and commutator, and lubricated the worm gears. The result was a rather smooth running locomotive, however during operation it smokes a little and produces an ozone odor. I figure the smoke is from the lubricating oil I put on the motor armature but where is the ozone smell coming from? My Athearn engines do not produce the same odor that the Tyco engine does. Does any know why this is? Is the ozone smell a sign of something wrong with the motor? Any info, advice, or opinions are welcome...
Thanks
Scott
Originally posted by Srenchin-December 29 2009: 6:55:54 PM
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Posted - January 12 2010 : 11:15:55 PM
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Dear Brian,
Thanks for the info, I knew there had to be some scientific explanation to the ozone scent. I have to admit that I am reluctant to remove the brushes because I might not be able to re-seat them any better than they are now. As long as I am not damaging the locomotive by running it as-is condition (which it sounds like I am not) I will not worry about the smell.
Scott
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Posted - January 13 2010 : 12:58:58 AM
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I always though the odor was just another great part of Tyco train & Slot Car layouts!
Walt
Luck, usually comes dressed in work clothes...
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bkoch
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Posted - January 13 2010 : 11:49:34 PM
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I agree completely. It seems like there is a combination of plastic, brass, oil, grease, and ozone that produces a unique Tyco smell. They say smell is the most powerful trigger of memory, and judging by the way that smell takes me back, I'd say it's absolutely true!
Regards,
Brian
quote:I always though the odor was just another great part of Tyco train & Slot Car layouts!
Originally posted by walt-January 13 2010: 12:58:58 AM
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Posted - February 04 2010 : 2:40:27 PM
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Yep, gotta love that nostalogic smell! Nver grew up with Tyco, but, I imagined everybody that smells it, it brings back memories!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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farace
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Posted - February 04 2010 : 6:44:53 PM
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quote:Yep, gotta love that nostalogic smell! Nver grew up with Tyco, but, I imagined everybody that smells it, it brings back memories!
Originally posted by Redneck Justin-February 04 2010: 2:40:27 PM
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Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] The snap of a few sparks, a quick whiff of ozone, and the lamp blazed forth in unparalleled glory.
Mr. Parker: Oh, look at that! Will you look at that? Isn't that glorious? It's... it's... it's indescribably beautiful! It reminds me of the Fourth of July!
--Bob
[only, I didn't say "fudge."]
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