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 Posted - December 01 2009 : 7:24:10 PM
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I have a question on this item...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284010709&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D350284010709%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
if the link does not work here is the item number.... 350284010709
I was the high bidder on this right up until about 3 hours before the auction closed.
I only budgeted 160.00 for the item and that would include the shipping.
After the auction ended I was sent a "second chance offer" for the item for what my high bid was
(150.00 plus 10.00 shipping).
I have some reservations because why did the winning bidder back out ?
The sellers explanation to me seems fairly plausible...but in my heart I suspect some shilling might have been going on.
My question is this ...is this a fairly common set ?...and is 150.00 dollars (160 total) a good price ?
Thanks
Bob
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Posted - December 01 2009 : 8:01:44 PM
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This is why I hate some of the changes ebay has made recently. It used to be easy to click on a name and get history on a bidder, and make your own conclusions. I'd caught and reported several shillers in the past this way, and even got accounts deactivated.
Now you can't do that so irrefutably since they hide names and history.
But, looking at the big winner, I see a total of 49 bids on 17 items. On ten items, the bid was retracted. What kind of retard keeps getting over his head, over 60% of the time? In over ten years and hundreds of wins, I only had to back out once, due to emergency unexpected circumstances. I felt awful and offered to pay the seller the difference between mine and the #2 bid (he was very understanding, thankfully). But the kind of retraction rate that clown has is inexcusable, and exactly the kind of thing ebay claims to be trying to prevent, but isn't.
I say shiller.
And a classic example of why you should never, ever, EVER bid-rebid on an auction. There's a reason everyone snipes. And if you can't, wait until your last possible moment, and hope it sticks. No sense in running the price up on yourself.
As for the value of that set... I think you probably know. Not many passenger sets get close to that, so something must have caught your eye. I've been told there's a certain characteristic about that one that makes it more unusual than most... and the roadname has nothing to do with it.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 01 2009 8:19:00 PM
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Posted - December 01 2009 : 8:44:27 PM
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I agree with Tony. The way evilbay has their system setup it is very hard to detect a shill.
After looking at the bidding history. I would contact the seller and say since the high bidder did not honor his high bid, then all of his bids should not count. Therefore without his bids you would have won it for $90 plus shipping. Since there were no other bidders but the deadbeat and that is all I would offer. If he doesn't accept your offer. Then wait for him to relist or look out for another auction. There will always be others. Carl
Numquam Immoderatio Satis Est
(Too Much Is Never Enough )
Edited by - VintageHO on December 01 2009 8:48:23 PM
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Posted - December 01 2009 : 9:08:27 PM
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This set is kinda special when I look at it...
It is a 1959 catalog item, sorta proves when red box began...
It is the first year of plastic F-9's and plastic streamliners, with the people in the windows...
It is the first Canadian roadname released...
All that and in pretty good shape would command a premium...
But, I tend to add value for historical interest!
and so it goes..
Loopy
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
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Posted - December 01 2009 : 10:07:52 PM
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| You may also want to consider that the passenger cars are the more elusive Gilbert / Tyco cars. If you count the large window openings on the coach, the earlier cars have eight windows as compared to seven for the more common Tyco cars. If I am not mistaken these cars where only available in 1959 Tyco sets.
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 02:05:56 AM
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The price you bid was fair but this is a SHILL.
Contact eBay and let them know - 14 retractions in 6 months is a SHILL. GIC said 10 - it's up to 14 now - in ONE DAY - they are MAJORLY SHILLING!!!!!
I agree - pay only your top bid BEFORE they bid. Look at BOTH of the other bidders! The bidder with 0 feedback has 100% of their bids with this seller. The other bidder has 19% of their bids with this seller, up from what GIC said. If eBay looks at this, they will see shilling going on actively TODAY!!!
SHILL!!! 
The $90 you bid the first time was shilled TOO!!!!
Tell eBay in your complaint that you got the second chance offer which is TOTALLY bogus.
Watch this item go up for bids again, TRUST me. They are trying to cheat you. I've been with eBay since 1997 and I have seen it all - you are getting scammed here.
Start using a sniping service - bidnip.com is your friend.
DO NOT PAY FOR THIS - wait until they file a non-paying bidder, but watch their auctions. Money says they won't file non-payer on you but just relist. Snipe it next time.
Rus
Starting my Tyco and other favorites collection over again after 37 years.
My still in progress list of inventory and wantlist: tyconut.com
Edited by - Tyco Nut on December 02 2009 02:08:51 AM
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 05:45:18 AM
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| in total agreement with all above comments,i would not accept his offer,as someone said,there will be another,its your choice ken
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 11:02:44 AM
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Do you really want it? after all you put in a top bid of 150, Didn't you?
True, they aren't playing fare. but if you only put a bid of 100 then that would be the price right now.
Maybe turn down the second chance offer and offer 100.
Ray
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 1:37:56 PM
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Yeah, I was trying to help Tayco by not necessarily turning a feeding frenzy loose upon him, but it's a rare set. Funny that someone lurked for two years and then finally broke silence by spilling the beans on this very suddenly controversial subject. Could it be our shiller come to defend himself? Or not a true shill, but someone who ran up the price to "protect the value" of his own? Doubtful, but I dislike "mystery people" and sudden/shady-appearing behavior around here. 
Of course, Ray had a good point... you were willing to go that high at some point, right?
It sucks, but this whole situation seems like a scam. I'd run. And bid $150, only at the last second, the next time someone else lists one.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 02 2009 1:44:59 PM
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 1:48:48 PM
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I never bid until the last few minutes of the auction due to avoiding this sort of situation right here. Besides it gives other bidders whom may be real to just come in and jack the prices up. If you make mulitple purchases on eBay then YES, get some sniping software. Let us know the outcome of this. It would be nice if they shut his arse down!
A lone amature built the ark! A large group of professionals built the titanic!
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 7:07:44 PM
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WOW !!! Thanks everybody !!!
Everyone has made some valid points...
First off GIC ....quote: I've been told there's a certain characteristic about that one that makes it more unusual than most... and the roadname has nothing to do with it.
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Thanks Tony for the reminder I completely forgot about the "Gilbert connection" in relation to early passenger sets and the elusive "11th window".
secondly Carl... quote:| I would contact the seller and say since the high bidder did not honor his high bid, then all of his bids should not count. Therefore without his bids you would have won it for $90 plus shipping. Since there were no other bidders but the deadbeat and that is all I would offer. |
This is unquestionably true Carl...but I would really like to have this set and I'm afraid just "throwing" that out there might cause the seller to not accept my offer then put the set out there it out there to the public with a "buy it now" for 150,00 while I'm at work and then it sells and I'm out of luck saying "woulda shoulda coulda"...I was fully prepared to go the 150.00 plus shipping...60.00 or 70.00 is still a lot of money to me but not enough to make me walk away.
I do appreciate your insights though.
Third...I have to blame myself for bringing the "shilling" aspect into this discussion...I should have just asked for opinions on the set and its value.
Thanks Again
Bob
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 8:23:55 PM
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Sigh.
You can call me/accuse me of many things, compadre, as I'm sure you have, but a shiller I *ain't.* I've always been fair-and-square on - and off - eBay, as you may remember.
I haven't bought or sold trains on eBay in about 2 years. Alex? Care to verify this?
I agree with everyone here, it's someone unscrupulously trying to make coin. It's happened to me a few times since '97, also.
Please post your outcome, Bob.
Edited by - theoldreliable on December 02 2009 8:26:57 PM
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Posted - December 02 2009 : 10:08:55 PM
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quote:Sigh.
You can call me/accuse me of many things, compadre, as I'm sure you have, but a shiller I *ain't.* I've always been fair-and-square on - and off - eBay, as you may remember.
I haven't bought or sold trains on eBay in about 2 years. Alex? Care to verify this?
I agree with everyone here, it's someone unscrupulously trying to make coin. It's happened to me a few times since '97, also.
Please post your outcome, Bob.
Originally posted by theoldreliable-December 02 2009: 8:23:55 PM
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Who brought you into this? Where in any of my comments above did I say "I bet that was Robert aka TheOldReliable aka "so and so" ("so and so" any of your other names I know but am not disclosing, please note).
You love to accuse me having some "out" or "in" or grudge for you. I fail to see it.
In my last comment referring to our mystery poster, Tycotown, I said that *could* be "the shiller", or *could" be someone running the price up... and then went on to say it was doubtful... but the appearance is rather odd (an account open for TWO YEARS with only 3 posts, and only one visible? What gives?)
Why are you accusing me of calling you names? If that was you, how was I supposed to know? And why post under ThOR now? How many other names are you lurking under? You're not MagAc too, are you?
If that's the name you created during our trashfest, I honestly forgot. But I seem to recall you claiming you had just created that one on the spot, so that doesn't explain "Tycotown" being around for 2 years. Anyway, that's moot... Not going to get into another spat.
Just let me state, if you're hiding/using/switching/ multiple psuedonyms for whatever reason, don't blame me for being rightfully confused by odd behavior. I never once singled you out for comment or blame, and even disclaimed my perception of the "mystery account", so take your bones to pick somewhere else, please. Geez.
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 Posted - December 02 2009 : 10:36:33 PM
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LOL, let's not hijack this poor guy's posts. No more spats. No accusations, no bones to pick, no animosity, nuttin.' I'm just "theoldreliable." "the dixie line" was used due to sign on troubles.
I tried 11 times to sign in as the oldreliable, and my password would not work. !?!?!
So, I did sign up under a similar L&N monicker, and stated who I was, and why I had a 2nd sign on. No, I'm not MagAc, LOL. He was a witty guy, though.
Anyhow, (briefly) on with "what gives..."
I had made mention in our previous "exchange" that I was away for two years when I signed back on and made a post a month or so ago. You made mention of a "mystery guy" and two years lurking, and I made the correlation. Pure chance, I suppose. If I am mistaken in this, my apologies. Fo reals. Seriously. No agendas. Shields DOWN.
I *completely* missed the Tycotown angle. I do recall reading your concerns with this guy not responding to emails and PM's, as well as one other member stating such to me in a PM.
Anyhow, nothing changes the fact that you have made great contributions here, and continue to entertain us all with interesting commentary, responses and projects.
Happy Holidays to you & yours,
Robert
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 12:35:41 AM
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Sheeeeesh!! Ya'll are at it again..... Sorta gets old after awhile. I really think you two need to sit down and hash your problems out or SOMETHING! I would almost pay for a plane ticket so you guys could get together. Alot of things are misunderstood on here because this forum is so impersonal. It's always hard to tell the other persons attitude through emails and posts. I don't care much for being drug into these spats so please leave me out of it. Yes, I know you have'nt purchased anything in a long time because you have been as broke as me...LOL....I have problems with the both of you two but I keep my opinions to myself. This is a fun hobby and I intend to keep it that way.
I am not taking sides in any of this crap but I will say whomever is messing with THOR's account is pretty low down. I have been on here for years now and weeks and even months will go by and I wont post and not one time have I EVER had a problem accessing my account.
Guy's....Please work this out and stop bickering.......ITS A HOBBY!!!!
A lone amature built the ark! A large group of professionals built the titanic!
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 12:58:15 AM
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quote:...I made the correlation. Pure chance, I suppose. If I am mistaken in this, my apologies. Fo reals. Seriously. No agendas. Shields DOWN.
I *completely* missed the Tycotown angle.
Originally posted by theoldreliable-December 02 2009: 10:36:33 PM
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Thank you... I can understand how that might happen. But given some past unpleasantness, I felt it warranted my earlier reply, which while frustrated was civil and factual.
No hard feelings then, no harm done. We're on the same page here and you're not moonlighting (not that I ever suspected such) which is good. Neither am I. Glad to have you back on the team!
Did you see that Alex? Nothing to worry about... Given the chance we can actually man up and reconcile our mutual misunderstandings, in a calm and civilized manner... it must be a Christmas Miracle!   I've long suspected that Robert and I share more common ground than not... so hopefully if a meeting is in the cards some day, it'll be just the place to say good riddance to bad egos and blind stupid misunderstandings. Life's too short and yes, it's a hobby which I intend to continue enjoying...
Cheers to all,
-TL
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 Posted - December 03 2009 : 01:29:23 AM
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Does this seem like a "My Name Is Earl" episode in the making?
Somebody call Jason Lee.
Group hug, y'all.
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 Posted - December 03 2009 : 01:34:38 AM
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LOL, sorry Bob for the *slight* detour. We now return you to your regularly scheduled post.
Please keep us posted on the eBay outcome.
Alex...sorry for rattling your cage.
-ThOR
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 05:32:53 AM
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Nothing but a thang bro......
A lone amature built the ark! A large group of professionals built the titanic!
Edited by - ILUVBUDWSR on December 03 2009 05:33:49 AM
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 07:14:54 AM
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Please keep us posted as to the outcome. I'd contact eBay about the OBVIOUS shilling. They can EASILY check IP addresses, too.
The set is hard to find no doubt, but keep in mind as with any hobby - IT IS A HOBBY. Pay what you wish, and be happy with your purchases. We'll all get taken once in a while, but HAVE FUN.
You might point the seller at this thread, and if they realize they've been seen to be shilling, they may be honest and part with it for an HONEST buck so that they keep their privileges to sell on eBay instead of the dishonest buck they are trying to make.
Rus
Starting my Tyco and other favorites collection over again after 37 years.
My still in progress list of inventory and wantlist: tyconut.com
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 07:34:43 AM
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hey Fellas:
It looks like things are settling down in this thread, so I'm not going to lock it as I intended. It seemed there was going to be a pissing contest, and i wanted to contain that.
Thanks for "standing to' gentleman!
-Gareth
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 Posted - December 03 2009 : 2:48:54 PM
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'preeciate the advice, Captain Obvious.
Edited by - theoldreliable on December 03 2009 2:49:25 PM
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 4:17:12 PM
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By your leave, Good Sir!
-Gareth
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 4:35:04 PM
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King's English, eh?
Nice.
Edited by - theoldreliable on December 03 2009 4:38:07 PM
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 4:47:43 PM
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WHEW BOY !!!...What a fiasco! and I blame myself for going public with it...All I frigging wanted to know was if the set was worth what the second chance offer was and it becomes the Tyco Collectors Forum version of the "Lindbergh Kidnapping"....Sheesh !
I'm not looking to report,chastise,browbeat/strong arm,the seller in anyway shape or form.
All I want is the GD set...One thing I have learned in 28 years of full time "train collecting" is that sometimes you have to get down in the "mud" with some dealers...because some of them are the most unscrupulous people on earth....YES!!! even worse than lawyers!!!
So please lets put the "torches and pitchforks" back in the barn...I no intention of "making an example" of this seller.
I have worked it out with her and she said I can pay her late next week when I get my next paycheck...The End !
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 9:46:18 PM
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quote:WHEW BOY !!!...What a fiasco! and I blame myself for going public with it...All I frigging wanted to know was if the set was worth what the second chance offer was and it becomes the Tyco Collectors Forum version of the "Lindbergh Kidnapping"....Sheesh !
I'm not looking to report,chastise,browbeat/strong arm,the seller in anyway shape or form.
All I want is the GD set...One thing I have learned in 28 years of full time "train collecting" is that sometimes you have to get down in the "mud" with some dealers...because some of them are the most unscrupulous people on earth....YES!!! even worse than lawyers!!!
So please lets put the "torches and pitchforks" back in the barn...I no intention of "making an example" of this seller.
I have worked it out with her and she said I can pay her late next week when I get my next paycheck...The End !
Originally posted by taycotrains-December 03 2009: 4:47:43 PM
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Well you have dated yourself in my era. I have always said that when I die, I will ask God who kidnapped the Lingberg baby, and who shot JFK...
I never saw any problems with your postings. But the replies insinuated impropriaty going on.
If you did buy it, it looks like a great set! If you really what to have something, then it is up to you to decide what you will pay to collect it.
Mike
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Posted - December 03 2009 : 11:04:22 PM
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quote:WHEW BOY !!!...What a fiasco! and I blame myself for going public with it...All I frigging wanted to know was if the set was worth what the second chance offer was and it becomes the Tyco Collectors Forum version of the "Lindbergh Kidnapping"....Sheesh !
Originally posted by taycotrains-December 03 2009: 4:47:43 PM
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Ha Ha.... ebay-specific threads always have that uncanny ability to ignite the drama fuse and haul out the vitriol, don't they?  This is why I tried to discourage excessive ebay threads a few months ago. Not saying you did anything wrong... but just want to point out for those people who didn't understand my logic, that my intentions were well-founded.
Anyway. I don't know if you could have gotten a direct answer on set value. But I will say, each of the passenger cars - 11 windows at that - is currently listed by "everyone's most favorite seller to hate" for a relative giveaway BIN. If you don't need the set box, just buy those cars, find an engine and you're done.
Hope you find what you're looking for. When you do, show us a pic of them in action!
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Posted - December 04 2009 : 12:05:11 AM
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Making a mountain out of a moehill... comes to my mind about this discussion. Why is everyone getting wound up about about someone asking for the original question about a set's value.
Mike
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Posted - December 04 2009 : 01:30:12 AM
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quote:Well you have dated yourself in my era. I have always said that when I die, I will ask God who kidnapped the Lingberg baby, and who shot JFK...
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Well I do not how old you are Mike but when Pres.Kennedy met his demise in the back of that Lincoln on Nov 22 1963 I was 6 and half months old...I do not recall the event as it happened .
I do remember seeing his brothers funeral train go through New Brunswick NJ five and a half years later...I was six by then.
quote: Anyway. I don't know if you could have gotten a direct answer on set value. But I will say, each of the passenger cars - 11 windows at that - is currently listed by "everyone's most favorite seller to hate" for a relative giveaway BIN. If you don't need the set box, just buy those cars, find an engine and you're done.
Hope you find what you're looking for. When you do, show us a pic of them in action!
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That is a good idea GIC if I just wanted the cars...but for me its "all about" the boxes...I learned my lesson many years ago when I was buying Postwar Lionel and not spending the extra money for a boxed item...I have a lot of stuff that would have a lot more value if I held out for the box...as for seeing it in action...The only action that set will see is in this last slot I need to fill on this shelf
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Posted - December 04 2009 : 10:15:49 AM
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quote:Making a mountain out of a moehill... comes to my mind about this discussion. Why is everyone getting wound up about about someone asking for the original question about a set's value.
Mike
Originally posted by Mike-December 04 2009: 12:05:11 AM
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Uh, I dunno.... maybe because the original asker, instead of sticking to his bid, was worried the "perceived value" had been skewed or destroyed by a shill, thus confusing the ability to judge or expect what the "true value" should be?
In the end we all thought it was too much and worth trying to get for less. Then there are 3 key cars, MIB, from same set listed for less than half the price. But he ultimately decided it was worth it to him just to be done. So what does that say about "a set's value"?
It only proves the old axiom: "Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay." I think this discussion was very interesting in seeing how that is borne out. (However, interesting or not, I still think ebay is far too volatile a topic for routine discussion.... as this thread also proved).
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 04 2009 10:16:59 AM
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Posted - December 05 2009 : 05:26:19 AM
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I am glad you got what you wanted, at a price you deemed fair. THAT is the most important thing.
Personally I get BEYOND bent out of shape when shill bidding goes on (It OBVIOUSLY did in this case) and someone gets taken advantage of. I get JUST as upset when eBay looks the other way in order to make more money for themselves.
Although I could care less if something is worth a ton - my stuff - including every original car & engine I've ever owned - all goes onto track to run around & around. That's how I define my fun. BUT - if Bob defines HIS fun as having full NIB sets on his shelf, and he's happy with what he paid, and wants items to have resale value down the road for something, then good for him!
Glad it worked out for you, Bob! I think someone here is going to pick up the pieces that GIC mentioned as a result of your inquiries for their own happiness!
Congratulations on picking up something you really wanted. The $150 you paid seems to be worth it - for the exact item you got. I don't ever pay that much - I'm now working on a deal costing - GULP - $35 plus maybe even that much in postage - but I'm a notorious cheapskate who'd rather wait. Sometimes the chase is half the fun, and it looks like you are REALLY having fun with your collection!
Rus
Starting my Tyco and other favorites collection over again after 37 years.
My still in progress list of inventory and wantlist: tyconut.com
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Country: USA ~
Posts: 396 ~
Member Since: November 02 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 14 2021
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Posted - December 05 2009 : 3:45:15 PM
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Edited by - romcat on December 05 2009 3:59:57 PM
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Country: USA ~
Posts: 5 ~
Member Since: October 16 2007 ~
Last Visit: February 28 2022
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looking for some input....
