|
|
 Posted - November 25 2009 : 12:16:05 AM
|
i've got a question. first i'm using dc, not dcc. i'm working with athearn blue box engines mostly, so how do you run a double powered lash up? i know just put them both on the track. that's not what i mean. i'm wanting to pull some longer trains, & i need two powered sd9 engines to pull it. with two engines you gain twice the traction, but lose half the power from the transformer. the only power packs i have are the gold tyco power packs that everyone has 12 of. they work good to power a tyco, but feeding a bigger engine (or two) will require more power than the tyco power pack puts out won't it?
i can pull more with a tyco with a power torque than i can with an athearn 12 wheel drive sd40-2. any of my ps2 powered 630 engines will pull 25 cars easy by theirself (i mean easily). i did it today. the most i can get out of any of my athearns by theirself is 18 with a sd40-2, then it spins. this is using older tyco, ahm, & bachmann cars with lots of drag.
what needs to be more, current? amps? both? niether?
jerry
Edited by - smokie on November 25 2009 01:28:14 AM
|
Country:  USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 25 2009 : 02:29:57 AM
|
To run more Athearn locos at once you need a power supply with more amps.
What kind of track do you have? Nickle silver? It is "slicker" than brass track.
The traction tires will bite it but metal wheels don't, especially on 18" radius curves.
Ray
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1285 ~
Member Since: December 14 2005 ~
Last Visit: May 16 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 25 2009 : 11:13:59 AM
|
i am using Nickle silver track. i've set up a temporary small 36" x 72" layout using backmann EZ track. i've started building a train room in the upstairs of my garage. the temporay layout is just something i can play with until??
how do i fugure out how many amps a transformer puts out? how many do i need?
thanks again ray.
jerry
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 25 2009 : 12:38:32 PM
|
Figure out how many amps an Athearn locomotive will draw. then multiply that by how many locomotives you want to run at once.
That is why the DCC guys use all those high amp boosters.
I think a 3 amp power pack will run 2 locos.
Ray
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1285 ~
Member Since: December 14 2005 ~
Last Visit: May 16 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 25 2009 : 7:34:53 PM
|
how do i figure out how many amps an engine will draw? i don't know much at all about electronics, or really how to use a volt meter, although i do have one.
jerry
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 25 2009 : 9:51:47 PM
|
To be precise you would need to put an amp meter in series with the power pack and the loco (some power packs have them built in). I can check to see what an average Athearn draws I think it is around an amp.
Ray
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1285 ~
Member Since: December 14 2005 ~
Last Visit: May 16 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 26 2009 : 02:16:10 AM
|
Hi Smokie,
I know what you mean about a power shortage with more than one loco. on a Tyco power pack. The Great One picked me up an MRC power pack sometime ago. I just put it to the test to see how it acts with two Athearn Super Power ( weighted) f7s . It had no noticable drop in speed. So I put three more locos. on the track and only had a slite drop in speed. The specs. are MRC 220 Tech 4. input 120VAC 60Hz, Output 23VDC, 18.5VAC, Total Output 17VA. I'm not saying you need an MRC power pack, just one in that power range should take care of your needs.
Mike
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 790 ~
Member Since: April 30 2006 ~
Last Visit: July 21 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 27 2009 : 9:07:38 PM
|
mike, are you saying you had five engines running at the same time in a lash up? that really must be a good transformer.
ray, if you will tell me how to test it i'll do it, or if you know of a link (to save you the time of typing it). thanks
jerry
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 28 2009 : 4:22:35 PM
|
Hi Smokie,
Yes, I did have 5 locos. at the same time. I don't normally run more than one at a time though as my layout is small.
Mike
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 790 ~
Member Since: April 30 2006 ~
Last Visit: July 21 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 29 2009 : 7:28:09 PM
|
Have you thought of repowering those Athearns? The standard Athearn blue box motors were all current hogs! Good pullers, but using a lot of current. If you replace the motors with flat sided can motors, you could probably run 3 of those Athearns together on that Tyco power pack. Alas, can motors are not cheap! You can get a good deal on can motors on ebay once in a while.
A second option, as mentioned earlier, is to step up to a better pack. You want as many amps of available power as possible! Be careful as most packs show power in terms of volt amps, (VA). The higher number of VA the better. This may be both cheaper then new motors and better for any layout. You don't need a "top-of-the-line" pack. I have done well with just an MRC Railpower 1300.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 715 ~
Member Since: May 03 2006 ~
Last Visit: September 19 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 29 2009 : 9:24:06 PM
|
The Athearn motor I tested (your mileage may vary) drew between 1/2 and 1 amp depending on the load I put on the it.
If I'm correct a VA is about the same as a watt so if you divide the VA by the voltage your using it will give you the amps the power pack will put out.(approximately)
I would think that the MRC power packs would run 2 Athearn locos without any trouble.
Ray
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1285 ~
Member Since: December 14 2005 ~
Last Visit: May 16 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 17 2009 : 8:05:41 PM
|
Multiple amps may cause heat (fire!) at connection points; so be careful! Track length and track connectors can be a problem. For best results, use multiple power connections to the track and 18 or heftier gauge wire.
I use a 60VA ( 12 volts x 5 amps = 60VA ) power supply (trainpower 6200) when multi-heading 5 AHM GP 18 diesels on bachman NS track; extra weight added (lead shot); five of these engines can pull apart plastic couplers.
A pleasant hum like a warm summer day with bees a buzzin' comes from my Tyco/Mantua metal shark nose ABA; each powered.
Edited by - offtrackthoroughbred on December 17 2009 8:09:43 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 165 ~
Member Since: November 26 2009 ~
Last Visit: November 06 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 17 2009 : 10:12:56 PM
|
i bought a mrc tech 4 200 & it works great. has pleanty of power & not to bad expensive. it will run 5 athearns at once. plus it has great low speed control.
jerry
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 553 ~
Member Since: January 14 2009 ~
Last Visit: September 13 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - February 20 2010 : 1:53:10 PM
|
** My experiences with double heading locomotives
* I have had problems double heading. If you kept the locos to the same manufacture and type it can be OK. Don't mix old and new for the well worn loco may run faster or slower causing problems. Locomotive with and without traction tires can't be run together. With and without flywheels have problems. Friends have made statements about say running Athearn Blue box and newer Atlas and being successful. Even if geared alike the mixing of drives containing different types of motors, standard and skewed wound, which give different performances cause problems with double heading. This is obvious when Athearn blue box and original LLP2000 locos are run together. Even though they look the same they are not. The only drive parts that are interchangeable, that i have used, are the geared drive axels. Looking at the drives the only real listed difference is the motors and the way they are wound. The quality of your track works helps alot. All this you can throw out the window because you will have loco of different manufactures and axel type that will run together. There is nothing like the experience of doing that will show you what will work.
* I have been told and have tried to put the faster behind the slower. It works sometimes. I have the most problems with this going downgrade. Reversing this seems to work sometimes too. You will notice that the faster engine will spin its drivers more often. * Double heading and what will most likely work, maybe. Athearn 2 axel, or 3 axel type run with each other of the same type should work. Some Athearn 2 and 3 axel locos are geared the same and should if lubricated should run together. Kato made, and designed locomotives of the same axel type should run together. Kato designed drives are in some Atlas and Stewart locomotives. Athearn drives are in some older Stewart, American GK, Bowser, and the MDC RS locomotives. My Stewart and MDC RS locomotives run well together but look really bad. The MDC being larger.
* Steam is a problem. You will always ( except for tank type) have a tender between powered locomotives. It tends to be lifted off of the track. Keeping the locos the same manufacture and type helps alot. My Gilbert 0-6-0s run together. My Mantua either pacific's or Mikado's run together. My two Lionel 0-6-0s run so well together I don't usually take them apart. In Penn-Line I have more success. My Consolidations and Mikado's run together. My Decapods and Mikado's run together. I have even run a Atlantic with a Pacific. I have never tripled headed steam, only diesels.
* Double heading does one thing for sure. It shows you where your track isn't quite right.
*** frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 7536 ~
Member Since: August 07 2008 ~
Last Visit: November 09 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - February 20 2010 : 2:01:03 PM
|
| Wow, I love that Sharknose ABA set!!!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 293 ~
Member Since: January 17 2010 ~
Last Visit: September 29 2023
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - February 20 2010 : 8:22:22 PM
|
Interesting Frank and guys, thanks.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on February 20 2010 8:24:44 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2496 ~
Member Since: August 03 2006 ~
Last Visit: September 17 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - February 20 2010 : 10:38:24 PM
|
| I'm glad this one got bumped up because I missed it earlier. A bunch of goodies in here. First time I've heard it pointed out that NS is more slippery than Brass, good to know.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1329 ~
Member Since: October 30 2005 ~
Last Visit: September 21 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - February 20 2010 : 10:57:13 PM
|
I was just at my layout running a train with a pairt of C430 PT powered Alcos and it occurred to me that a good way to save strain on the PTs in a big train is to doublehead them. I'm using an MRC 3000 transformer/converter that is actually converting the accessory power to run the trains.
I'm wondering if it would improve the ability of a Tyco pak to run trains.
Alco Fan
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2496 ~
Member Since: August 03 2006 ~
Last Visit: September 17 2024
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
Home
Forums
Events Calendar
Forum Admins & Mods
Register
