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 Posted - December 02 2006 : 10:55:50 AM
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I picked up an MRC Sheer Brilliance DCC Decoder and Sound Unit yesterday. Tony L. had said he used one in his Athearn GP40X and I thought I'd give one a try.
Planned to install it in an Athearn SD-40. This is a new RTR SD-40 that is DCC-ready.
It worked sorta. The sound kicked up as the throttle got to around 12-o'clock on my analog DC power pack. This is same situation I have with my only other DCC-Sound loco a BLI Alco RSD-15 gator.
So, anyway the sound kicked on fine and made idling noises. But even will full-power opened on the pack the engine never moved. Is it possibly installed wrong? Is it not DC-analog compatible? Anybody know???
Tony Cook
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 Posted - December 02 2006 : 3:29:04 PM
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Hi Tony,
It's actually normal for a sound-equipped decoder to not "turn on" with an analog pack until the throttle is turned up some. They require a lot more input voltage to get going compared to a standard loco - even one that is DCC with no sound.
The Starting Voltage is the key, and, assuming you wired everything in correctly (did the decoder just drop-in, or did you have to connect the wires?), the likely cuase of your problem.
Anyway... I had a similar issue with my MRC decoder in my GP40x: The sounds would come on but the loco wouldn't move until I gave it more throttle... it DID eventually move but was way off-sync.
The solution is to change (reprogram) the decoder's "CV" that handles starting voltage. On the MRC, this is CV #2. You can use a range from 0-32; 0 is default. A higher value will tell the docoder what the voltage required to move is. Once I set mine to about 16, I was sync'd up and running well.
The good news is, this is an easy fix. The bad news is you WILL need to use a DCC system to change this, though. I am using the MRC Prodigy but any should work.
The other variable in your case, since you said it never moved, could be the analog pack you're using. You need a pretty beefy one for a sound-equipped loco. I have an MRC Tech II and it handles my Athearn/MRC GP40x AND a Proto/QSI GP7 double-headed just fine, and even a couple others online as well. But a Tyco pack wouldn't have a chance [:P]
Let me know if that helps. I am out of town (AGAIN, sigh) so if you need it I can photograph my GP40-x install to show you how it was wired, when I get home...
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Posted - December 02 2006 : 5:11:29 PM
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Thanks Tony L., believe you have solved my problem. I was worried about frying the decoder, so when I got sound and no movement I was afraid to keep going and cut the power without giving it enough of a chance.
I have an MRC pack and it runs my BLI Alco RSD gator a-ok...though yes you do have to crank it over to about 2 or almost 3 o'clock before you get any movement and then there's not much left in the throttle to go before it's full out...so hard to control speed.
There's a DCC set-up at the hobby shop, so I'll put it together and go there and reset the CV#2 to 16 and see if it doesn't respond better on my analog operation.
Really gonna have to make the big jump and go DCC soon.
Thanks Again!
Tony Cook
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Posted - December 02 2006 : 6:38:36 PM
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Hmm... 2 - 3 o'clock does seem to be excessive. Mine usually responds around 10 or 11 - and once it's running I can step it back to about 9 before it shuts off. Might be your feeder bus isn't large enough, or dirty track.
I like the Prodigy system - for $80 it's a great starter set to test things out. My only gripe is that it doesn't do CV readouts, but the Prodigy Advance system does.
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Posted - December 02 2006 : 8:10:53 PM
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The sound on the MRC DCC-Sound unit kicks on almost immediately when you give the throttle juice...just never moves even when the throttle is full on 100%.
Where did you place the speaker in your GP40X?
The MRC unit came with two sizes of speakers and the bigger one was probably larger then the SD40's cab in total size. I did get the smaller speaker tucked into the cab area, but it's squeezing to do that.
I pulled the jumper off and tossed it out, that was correct to do right? Don't need it connected anymore with the DCC-Sound unit plugged in. Can I also cut the jumper wires? The space is tight inside the hood for the unit's circuit board and I could use the space the group of wires and the white plug recepticle is taking up inside at the dynamic brake area.
I plan to take it into Union Station tomorrow and ask someone at the club layouts to crank the CV#2 value to 16 and then bring her back home and see if it'll work on my analog system.
Tony Cook
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Posted - December 04 2006 : 12:11:37 PM
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My MRC decoder only came with one speaker, a round one; it was also much too large so I had to buy a separate speaker for about $10 - don't recall the vendor but it was an oval one that fit inside the long hood perfectly.
If I get time tonight, I'll take pics of my install. I'm not sure how the Genesis units differ from the DCC-ready RTR line; I don't have any Genesis units.
I WAS eyeing that same SF Bicentennial unit - and then I found the Ty-Cocaine. [Oops!]
I LOVE the king kong back there BTW. LOL. I have an action figure of "Big O" from the eponymous anime series - a giant robot for sure, but the seires was much darker and deeper than that. The net result - "Urban Renewal" - is the same [;)]
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Posted - December 04 2006 : 1:12:02 PM
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Well, I did get to see my SD-40 move yesterday and make noise.
Had one of the engineers at the Union Station-Kansas City train layout put it on the track and make the adjustment on CV#2 to switch the throttle preset from 0 up to 16, as you suggested. Though it worked well on the layout, DCC, there...at home it still doesn't move on analog-DC juice.
D'oh! Maybe it is time I made the DCC plunge.
Tony Cook
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 Posted - December 07 2006 : 01:15:52 AM
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| Haven't forgot about the promised pics... just been slammed with too much to do at home otherwise. Might not get them till this weekend. I actually need to do this to refresh my own memory as to how I installed it; I'm not the "Tony" of "Tony's Train Exchange DCC" fame ya know [:P]
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Posted - December 07 2006 : 10:57:13 AM
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Think I'm gonna take the DCC plunge this week and pick up the Digitrax Zephyr system for my layout.
I know I got the MRC Sheer Brilliance unit in there right, as I saw my Illinois Central SD40 run fine with sound and on DCC Sunday on another layout.
Tony Cook
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Posted - December 07 2006 : 11:10:57 AM
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I looked at the Zephyr for a lonng time; my local pusher er I mean dealer (heh) is a Digitrax guy through and through!
But I just couldn't get past that stationary, clunky box, for my own personal taste. I have a 4x8, and the system I got is basically a walkaround cab that does everything the Zephyr does, except CV readbacks (which did bite me, but only once and was rectified by resetting the loco to factroy defaults).
But the Zephyr is a nice, easy system to use... and if you have a large pike with tons of other stuff you might convert, may be your best option.
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Posted - December 07 2006 : 11:45:47 AM
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Now I like the Digitrax Zephyr design just because it looks much like a traditional power pack. My understanding is that I will be able to add a phone-port to the opposite side of my layout and have the little Digitrax throttle there for switching work. I really don't have the need/use for all the walk-around ability.
Plan to do the Zephyr now and get familiar with DCC ops and later run a line over to the other side of my pike and put in a throttle remote there at some point in the future.
Tony Cook
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Posted - December 09 2006 : 7:34:09 PM
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Here's a pic of my install:
Basically, all the pins on the ends are wired to the lights (the aux pins operate the flashing beacon, which is AWESOME). I had to add a wire for motor isolation, the black one is provided by athearn; the yellow I added and soldered to the other motor pin on the DCC board, and then wedged the other end under the top brushspring clip.
You can see the ovoid speaker I purchased, to fit in the long hood. I had to cut the weight down to make it fit, and then used tape and thin cardboard to make a baffle around it. The sound goes right through the open fans.
First time I did it, it sounded like crap because the wires for the rear headlights were compressed against the speaker cone (I had only left *just enough* room for the speaker and forgot to account for the wires). So I had to file more of the wieght - once I did that, the wires quit interfering/vibrating and it sounds like a good ol' STOMPIN EMD now. [}:)]
Hope that helps... and congrats on the Zephyr! Like I said, I considered it for a long time... it's a nice set. [}:)]
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Posted - December 10 2006 : 09:04:11 AM
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Thanks for install pic! Gives me some ideas and suggestions to work on.
Been playing with my new Digitrax Zephyr this weekend.
Have been amazed at the differences in what I thought were all NMRA-approved DCC equipment...
On the Digitrax Zephyr, the MRC Sheer Brilliance can't be read on many settings. I was able to program the MRC to an extent, but was not always able to get it to tell me what I did. Did find the variety of bells and horn available was neat and once I got the hang of programming the CVs for the sound effects I was happy with it performance.
The Bachmann EZ-DCC locos with I believe Lenz decoders seem primitive. I tried to program and/or check some of the CV's and it either doesn't have them or won't read them. The best I seemed able to do with a Bachmann loco was change its address from factory set #3 to the unit's roadnumber...and even that was guess work as it wouldn't read the number programmed into it back on my Zephyr system.
The Atlas factory installed DCC decoder in my SD24 works well. This is a no-sound just DCC control diesel. It reads back well on the Zephyr and seems to work great.
Finally, the Broadway Limited Alco RSD-15 with DCC and Sound took some work. Though basic functions were easy, it took me some time to figure out how they did the sound. On the MRC unit each sound function is stored under its own CV, but the QSI decoder in the Broadway unit has all the sounds stored under CV-49. You pick CV-49 and then change it's setting to match the desired sound...then you kick over to CV-52 and raise or lower or alter that particular sound. Seemed a bit confusing at first, but once I understood BLI's take on the filing of the sounds it was easy.
One question, is it normal for the analog-DC locos to make a whine or electronic buzz when operated on a DCC system? Using the Loco-00 address and running analog engines, I found they all made an odd electronic buzz or humming noise. The system says it can run an analog loco under the 00 address, but they sure seem to act a bit odd to me. What's your experience?
Tony Cook
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Posted - December 11 2006 : 10:27:59 AM
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I forgot about the 00 feature of the Zephyr... I wondered if it would operate silenty or spew that telltale buzz.
It's actually very normal for analog locos to do that on a DCC system. I can;t remember the exact reason but remember that on DCC, you're not supplying a steady DC loop voltage to the rails like an analog system. DCC sends binary signals through the tracks as a conduit, so that's sort of what you're hearing. Supposedly it won't damage the loco, but the noise is very disconcerting (right up there with nails on a chalkboard to me). I HATE it, personally.
Here's what I did on my layout: I already had a standard two-cab analog blocking system in place. So what I did in a nutshell, was take my main power bus feeder wires from the packs (or the cab selector, actually), and splice it. I installed a toggle switch in the fascia and connected the analog power to one side. I connected the feed from my Prodigy DCC's power source to the other side.
Essentially then, the layout is converted from DCC to Analog at the literal flip of a switch; everything runs flawlessly on either system. In fact, I think I could actually set the blocks on the layout and run some sections in analog, and other sections in DCC, at the same time - I can't remember if I have tried that but I know because of the existing blocks, they would be isolated... I have analog locos staged on other lines even while running DCC elsewhere. [}:)] It's actually quite slick if I may brag a little. [:D] Of course I have a simple 4x8 without reversing loops and such, but I'm sure this concept could be adapted to other larger layouts as well.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 11 2006 10:31:16 AM
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