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 Posted - October 24 2006 : 07:57:21 AM
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hi guys i won the lot in picture top one is tyco but 2 below are lionel any info please,ken
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 Posted - October 24 2006 : 10:49:44 AM
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The yellow Union Pacific 40' Hi-Cube most probably is the Kader Hong Kong-made knock off of Athearn's "Ugly Duckling" Baby Hi-Cube. If it is a Lionel-HO from the '70s, it'll say so on the underframe. Bachmann's are marked there too. Believe both offered a UP example.
The Bangor & Aroostock 40' Slider may be Lionel-HO. Again 1970's Lionel-HO and though not terribly rare, it is of more interest than the UP Hi-Cube. As with the Hi-Cube, believe that 40' Box Car is a Kader Hong Kong-product and would share tooling with Bachmann's 40' Slider of that same era...though I don't think the B-man ever offered that roadname in its line.
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 10:50:10 AM
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Hi Ken,
Both Lionel cars are from thier mid-1970's run. The Bangor and Aroostook 40' sliding door boxcar is the real keeper of that lot: it's the original american release of Lionel's own design and is very pretty. I don't have the stock number handy but I do have one of those in the original multicolor box I can look for at home.
Lionel does end up offering a revised boxcar sourced from Kader in Hong Kong. It is the same as that offered by Bachmann, easily spotted by the very crude door tracks and separate roofwalk. Lionel does offer a couple roadnames in both versions (GT is a common example), but the road numbers are different and unlike most of the Kader-made cars, they are not offered by anyone else.
The UP High-cube was a Kader product, but also released by Bachmann following Lionel's (second!) exit from HO. They are easily more plentiful than the BAR boxcar. The original Lionel boxcars were never re-released by anyone (although Life-Like's 40' boxcar shares very similar characteristics).
A nice find in any case!
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on October 24 2006 10:53:09 AM
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 10:54:55 AM
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| thanks tony & goingincirclez for info,am keeping all as over here as stated,tyco is very hard to get as is lionel,i am happy ken
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 Posted - October 24 2006 : 9:28:08 PM
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OK, here's some info and another pic. First off, your BAR boxcar is stock# 5-8510. Does that number look familiar? (hint: look at your boxcar)
One cool thing that Lionel did in HO (carried over from their O offerings) was to make the road# on the car in some way match their catalog stock#. As a kid, it used to fascinate me that my GT and CP Rail cars could be sequential with each other, and really messed with my understanding of how real railroads operated [Oops!]. (Note that I painted the roofwalks as a kid, they did not come that way. Those two cars are among my cherished survivors).
The colorful red & blue boxes only lasted a year or two before being rapidly cost-cut into the plain white version. The red and yellow striped box is what Canada got. As is the norm in Canukland, they got most (but not all) of what the US had as well as a handful of exclusives, like that CP hopper. BTW the C&O 5-8516 boxcar in labeled box is a find in itself - most of the C&O boxcars were included in unlabeled set boxes, and it was not cataloged. It and the Sears boxcar discussed elsewhere were the LAST boxcars offered in Lionel's tooling.
As for the 2nd-gen "Lionel" and Bachmann 40' boxcar, made by Kader:
The ROCK is a Bachmann but is the same car as the late-release Lionels. The difference is immediate as soon as you see the door. Lionel's tooling was much nicer.
There ya go...
-Tony L.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on October 24 2006 9:30:13 PM
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Posted - November 27 2006 : 1:12:00 PM
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this lot arrived today all mint boxed,any help towards dating gratefull ken
  
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Posted - November 27 2006 : 2:20:24 PM
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Re-Read my earlier post for more info.
In a nutshell, color-boxes are roughly 1975/76; white boxes take over in late 76 thru 1980. My dates may not be exact, but close. Red & Yellow are Canada-only.
Some nice cars in that lot - the BCR and Ontario Northland are somewhat scarece and very pretty. If you'd had a CN coil car in that lot (canada only), I'd be jealous [:D]
Your GT & Southern RR boxcars and BN hopper are both Kader revisions, different in all respects from the original Lionel HO tooling (BAR and CP boxcars).
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Posted - November 27 2006 : 2:24:13 PM
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hi goingincirclez,this is only half of a collection purchased more coming,rhanks for info and help,ken
ps all marked on underside made in taiwan
3 more ken
 
Edited by - catfordken on November 27 2006 3:29:15 PM
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Posted - December 13 2006 : 11:01:56 AM
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Ken,
Got my hands on that Greenberg Guide to Lionel HO again, to read it this time. Here's the scoop:
Lionel's 1970's attempt at HO was only made from 1974, until I was born in 1977 - just 4 years!! It was destined for failure right from the start, since the pieces available in 74 were either rehashes of previous Lionel HO, or already available from other makers.
The multicolor boxes were available only for a year. The cheaper white boxes took over from 1975 till the end. Red&Yellow was Canada. I already had that right above, except for the exact years, so I wanted to correct myself.
Some of the earlier rolling stock was Lionel's own tooling, with a some exceptions. By 1976-1977, most all of it was Kader and other outsourced stuff, all HongKong.
The only truly unique item that Lionel introduced and kept exclusively was the U18-B, in three names (Rio Grande, CPRail, and Soo line; I have the Rio Grande) but they didn't get this out until 1976, which was too late... and they didn't catalog it the next year. Who knows why? 1977 did see some very interesting train sets though, like my prized Chessie set among others.
The Lionel GS-4 and both American Freedom trains (espeically the steam) are by far the most coveted and sought-after Lionel HO items... I do have a near-mint Lionel GS-4 for the AFT, but no box for it. Many of the Canadian items are attractive and scarce... there is an awesome Canadian set with 13 boxcars for all the provinces.
The GS-4 was bought by Bachmann but retooled slightly and is still available... but since it was retooled almost immediately the Lionel versions are apparently more "collectible" (ugh). I don't have a Bachmann GS-4 so I don't know what the differences are... I may pick one up soon though, maybe... a Chessie and/or Western Pacific. God this hobby is killing me [:P]
Hope that helps. If you find a CN coil car over there, let me know...
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on December 13 2006 11:06:04 AM
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Posted - December 13 2006 : 11:05:30 AM
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hi goingincirclez is that a lionel cn coil car ken
Edited by - catfordken on December 13 2006 11:12:40 AM
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Posted - December 13 2006 : 11:12:27 AM
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Ken, yes it's a Lionel-Ho Canada one. Only made for Canada. The coil car itself is the very same tooling sold by Bachmann and AHM and very commonly found.
It's also one of my FAVORITE models in HO, and I'd like to get all the roadnames that were done. I'm missing a couple but the CN will be the hardest for sure. AHM's Illinois Central one is quite nice and my favorite, but the Lionel CN is also attractive.
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Posted - December 13 2006 : 11:13:59 AM
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| will most certainly have a look and keep you posted ken
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Posted - December 13 2006 : 1:34:44 PM
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| An extra bit of information regarding these Lionel HO offerings: The "prototype" for the poultry graphic on the New York Central stockcar is a shed located in Detroit's Eastern Market. In the early 1970's a Detroit city planner named Alexander Pollock (I think that's his name.) spruced up the place with various improvements including the aforementioned excited fowl painted on a shed.
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