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 Posted - July 07 2009 : 4:44:32 PM
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Came across this in an auction win. Look at the dealer profit near the bottom.
You can see they're brown box era but all are Gen I Alcos, MU2 powered. Cabooses have metal handrails and metal ladders. Missing is the SF Alco that was available that year in the '74-'75 catalog.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on July 07 2009 5:21:37 PM
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Posted - July 07 2009 : 6:59:05 PM
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Wait, so the dealer would get half of the profit for every 430 sold, as long as there was a caboose in the same package? How the heck does that makes sense? 
    
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Posted - July 07 2009 : 7:12:06 PM
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Why is the SF Alco missing?
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Posted - July 07 2009 : 7:37:41 PM
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The profit is nothing new. I worked in hobby shops over several years... locos and rolling stock *always* were approximately a 100% markup.
A few years ago Walthers made a big deal about lowering their prices, which they did - at the retail level. But they actually RAISED the dealer costs, meaning less net profit for a dealer per item... and higher consumer costs at the "wholesale" (i.e. "internet hobby shop" ) level.
You think that's bad, the profits on consumer electronics would amaze you. I spent a hellacious 14 months working at Best Buy some years ago... back then the pay sucked but the employee discount (a mere 5% markup over wholesale) was legendary. A computer system did not have much profit at all... maybe $50, typically. But car stereos (among other items) more than made up for this. I picked up a Pioneer head unit, the very top of the line, that retailed for $399. I paid $147 (with tax) out the door!
Anyway. Why is the Santa Fe "missing"? It's not. This brochure appears to be for the 430 + caboose combo, only. That combo was ONLY ever offered in the 3 roadnames shown. The box even specifies a choice of just those three.
Why wasn't SF in the combo? Why should it be? What about BN, So76, CN....? Whims of product planning. I'd bet the only way to get a Soo or Chessie 430 at the time was to "get stuck paying for the free included caboose". Or (more likely) the only way to get a caboose, was to buy the whole stupid engine! Or maybe Tyco had plans to expand the combo deal if it was successful, but it was not and so that never occurred?
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Posted - July 07 2009 : 10:03:04 PM
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My thinking was that the '74-'75 catalog shows the SF as one of the 4 C430s available and it's not in the special sale, in fact they're grouped together in the catalog, SOO, ICG, SF, Chessie, and that's why it strikes me that the SF was left out. There must be a reason why the SF isn't listed in this sale and why the box only shows 3 choices, not 4 etc. The So76s were also sold separately and pictured separately in the cat., I didn't think about it being excluded because it was in a separate pic and the So76 was the only C430 in a set that year according to the catalog. I didn't know that the BN or CN was available, they're not in the catalog.
Maybe the marketing aspect is that more roadnames would be added if successful. There are more SFs and So76s out there, on internet auctions, than the rest anyhow so they weren't over stocked with them.
I have an unopened SOO and ICG , I never thought to look at those boxes.
This is also about the time that the Mantua Tyco PT powered Gen II C430s appeared and was after Consolidated Foods was involved.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on July 08 2009 09:02:42 AM
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Posted - July 08 2009 : 11:37:19 AM
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The fonts used on the "4301" roadnumber provide clues as to when a given example was made. I haven't quite finished the timeline yet, but have a rough version from examples I've noted and obtained, there is obviously more for me to look at when I have time to focus on that.
With regards to the BN and CN 430's, I have seen both in redbox, brownbox MU-2, and PT versions... so it stands to reason they were available in the transition phase during which the caboose combo was separately offered. The BN is kind of odd for this, given its relative scarcity. I guess CN was typically a Canada-only item.
Remember that catalogs are not the be-all end-all of tyco offerings in a given year. The 1968 catalog only pictured one or two 430's IIRC, but a number of rare locos were offered that year (GN, Pennsy; CNW GP20). Say nothing of all the early 70's rolling stock that was never shown mentioned or listed in catalogs but well known to exist.
What you really need are dealer pricing sheets from those years, as these usually have much more detailed listings of items and stock #'s not shown in catalogs. Again by way of example, the 1968 one-offs are actually listed on those.
By the late 70's though, the catalogs generally did double-duty for both dealer and consumer, and by the mid-80's they were pretty much dealer-only, so discrepancies are fewer.
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Posted - July 09 2009 : 06:31:23 AM
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GiC, Do you have any of the dealer sheets you mentioned?
I never thought about it, maybe because I just got an MU2 and PT CN Alco, but they might have been a Canada only product like you said.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on July 10 2009 06:35:40 AM
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Posted - July 10 2009 : 07:54:29 AM
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neat brochures  I'd like that trolley & that F-9 Amtrak unit 
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Posted - July 10 2009 : 12:10:09 PM
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I didn't think they still offered steam loco kits by that time.
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Posted - July 10 2009 : 8:19:53 PM
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Looks like 9 of them. I'm not up on kits. I'd like to get an Alco kit of course.
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Posted - July 11 2009 : 12:21:45 PM
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Thanks to Brianstyco's Christmas video on the "'tube" I see the MU2 C430 CN in the 73 Easton's Christmas catalog. So maybe it could be picked up in the states?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on July 12 2009 12:00:05 PM
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