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 Posted - February 27 2009 : 8:55:38 PM
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well i finally found a tray motor to use in my project & it fit real good. the motor is a tray motor out of one of the old big playstation 2 with a tray drive. the tray motor from it fits great in the super 630 bolster & clears the center wheels with room to spare.
i took the old power torque motor apart,, removed the magnets, & got out the trusty die grinder. a dremel would work too, but the air powered die grinder made easy work out of the block. on the inside of the PT block has some high & low spots cast into it. i removed all the high spots down to the lowest point. doing this you will get into about half of the pockets where the two idler gears slip over the pins (the two that power the wheels), but the pins will stay in place. the new motor sits almost flush with the outside of the power torque block. the factory brush plate stuck out futher than the new motor. i also had to enlarge the opening for the new tray drive motor, but not much. if you go easy you can use the two bolt holes that holds the brush plate on the PT to secure the new motor in place. you must remove the bracket from the motor that held it in place on the playstation. after you do you will see the center of the tray motor has a raised area in the middle. it is 1/4" (.250"). i removed the bushing that the pinion shaft came through & drilled the hole out to 1/4" (.250"). this centered the motor & helped set the teeth mesh. on the top of the bolster i cut out the center of it where the spring rides. after doing this it give it clearance so the truck would have some give for starting up & down grades (i hope you understand). it needed to be done, if you try this you will see why. i also doubled the amount of weight in the tank. it runs great & is no louder than a factory power torque motor. if seems like it will put a lot better.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on February 27 2009 9:02:56 PM
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Posted - February 27 2009 : 9:10:09 PM
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Outstanding work there Kiddo!
-Gareth
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 12:17:54 AM
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Nice job.
That looks like the motor I put in my C430.
Ray
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 02:03:25 AM
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Nice work, Smokie.  Like Ray's, that tray motor looks wider and shorter than those I've pullled from old CDROMs.
How is the speed? You said it was very fast with the throttle barely cracked, but those can motors draw such a small amount of current that it's probably not enough to load down the rheostat inside older transformers. You'll need a regulated DC pack like the MRC Mark II series to get low speeds out of it.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 10:58:08 AM
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ray, the motor looks to be about .100" taller than the one you used. i almost got into the wheel pocket when cutting it to fit. but i did cut it a little big too.
it is faster than the PT that was in it. i'm going to try putting a resister in it, & a led light. i have to get rid of the factory bright ass bulb. it seems to have a good amount of pulling power too, but i haven't tried it with any real load yet. wonder where we can get these motors from? i would love to find a bunch of junked ps2's.
it only took about two hours to do all the work. i'm very pleased with it.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on February 28 2009 11:05:46 AM
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 11:20:30 AM
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Here is a 2 volt motor that is 8mm wide.
http://www.precisionmicrodrives.com/product_info.php?products_id=146
I don't know if this one will be thin enough or not.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-269/1.5-6-VDC-MOTOR/-/1.html
Ray
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 11:47:45 AM
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Hey Ray,
Wouldn't a 2volt motor be seriously underpowered? Maybe I have this bass-ackwards but I thought that a 12V gave maximum power for the standard dc power pack and allowed the best throttling everyting else being equal?
-Gareth
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 12:07:03 PM
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A 12-24 volt motor would be ideal but finding one with the size and price limitations is a problem.
I haven't priced this one, not sure I want to know.
http://www.micromo.com/uploadpk/2607_SR_MME.pdf
Ray
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 12:15:59 PM
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A 2 volt motor would essentially be overpowered on track voltage, and will probably burn out darn quick on 12 volts. The armature has fewer turns of wire, so it has a lower voltage range. A large power resistor would help, but would give off some heat. Smokie, if you could find another one of these motors, you could power a second truck and wire them in series as discussed in another thread. That would halve the voltage to each motor.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 12:34:24 PM
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Hey Guys:
By underpowered I meant the amount of torque that could be produced.
I should have been more clear, soryy.
-Gareth
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 2:32:57 PM
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Actually the 2 volt motors have a fare amount of torque (especially when you accidently apply 12 volts to it)
When I was testing the power truck on a piece of track (with wires to the power pack) it popped a wheelie and flipped over.
Ray
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 8:01:23 PM
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I let my curiosity get the best of me. Before I put the motor in I took it apart. it's a brushless motor, & has about twist the windings on each of the 6 or 8 arms coming off the rotor, compared to a PT.
i wish i would have taken a picture of it, but after i got it back together i figured i had better leave it alone.
is a mrc railpower 1100 controler any better than the tyco power packs i have now as fare as better controle of low voltage?
jerry
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 9:02:25 PM
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I got an MRC pack not too long ago, you'd be surprised at just how much better they are.
Not only do they offer better low voltage control, but the power increase is much more gradual. On my other pack, you can see the locomotive actually "jump" in steps as you increase power.
    
- Matt -
Edited by - MM 1498 on February 28 2009 9:23:52 PM
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Posted - February 28 2009 : 9:36:10 PM
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Smokie,
I doubt the motor is brushless, like a stepper motor, since they require an AC current of some kind. It's more likely that it has precious metal brushes instead of carbon, which is what model loco motors always have. Precious metal brushes are just small silver wipers.
It has that many poles on the armature? Wow.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - March 01 2009 : 3:24:51 PM
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quote:Smokie,
I doubt the motor is brushless, like a stepper motor, since they require an AC current of some kind. It's more likely that it has precious metal brushes instead of carbon, which is what model loco motors always have. Precious metal brushes are just small silver wipers.
It has that many poles on the armature? Wow.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759-February 28 2009: 9:36:10 PM
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your right, i'm used to seeing brushes & springs so i thought it was a brushless motor. your right, it had little silver wipers in it. it did have about two times the poles as the power torque had.
jerry
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Posted - March 01 2009 : 4:44:40 PM
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Back in the day I stepped up to a Tech II Locomotion 1500. Man did those Tyco locos run well with that power pack! You can find them cheap these days.
Todd
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Posted - March 02 2009 : 9:57:15 PM
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if anyone is interrested, i found a guy that sells the same motor i used on my 630. i bought 6 for $25.00 shipped. his email is paypal@ps2parts.com, his phone number is 610-272-6990, jeff drum. tell him it's the tray motor for the trains. verion 4 tray motor.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on March 05 2009 1:04:46 PM
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Posted - March 05 2009 : 1:10:10 PM
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i received the motors today & they are the same as i used. the bracketless tray motor will work too, he sent one to see if it could be used & it will work. same thing without a bracket. his web site is www.ps2parts.com
jerry
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Posted - March 07 2009 : 02:06:25 AM
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Smokie, does he have a voltage rating on those motors?
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - March 07 2009 : 10:19:53 AM
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no it doesn't have anything on it, but i just emailed the guy to see if he can find out.
jerry
jerry
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Posted - March 08 2009 : 6:13:15 PM
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the guy that sold me the motors emailed me back today. he said they would work with up to 12 volts.
jerry
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Posted - March 29 2009 : 3:24:33 PM
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I see the motor you used is very slim. I did one in a 630 but the motor didn't last. Did you have info on ordering them?
Thanks.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on March 29 2009 3:52:42 PM
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Posted - September 11 2009 : 2:18:41 PM
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sorry for not answering you alco fan, i didn't see where you asked a question. www.ps2parts.com is his web site, & paypal@ps2parts.com is his email, his phone number is 610-272-6990, ask for jeff drum. i bought 6 for $25.00 shipped. you can also find these motors on ebay. There are two kinds, one with wires & one without. They will both work, you just have to solder some wires on the one that doesn't have them. their the same motor.
i ran this beast last night for the first time. it was pulling eight cars like it was nothing. it would also crawl on low speed with no stopping or any trouble like the PT's have. it run's like an expensive engine. i ran it for two hours at about 3/4 throttle with no problems at all. it would run at full throttle but it would start derailing the cars from them leaning over from the speed. it is awesome to say the least. my silver streak will get on in it if i can fix the power torque that's in it easily. this is a great motor for any PT swap. 4 or 6 axle.
jerry
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Posted - September 11 2009 : 4:38:40 PM
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 nice locos guys Gotta find me some 
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Posted - September 11 2009 : 6:32:34 PM
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Smokie,
Thanks for the info, I'm gonna look into it.
Sounds like yours worked out great!
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 12 2009 : 02:36:48 AM
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i did another one tonight for my silver streak with 630 trucks i built last week. it looks good, now it runs as good as it looks.
jerry
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Posted - September 12 2009 : 09:27:05 AM
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Smokie ,
Do I just ask for the Play station 2 motor?
Thanks.
BTW: Did you use any resistors or is the voltage limit on these motors high enough for the transformer output?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on September 12 2009 09:34:22 AM
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Posted - September 12 2009 : 2:18:36 PM
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i just found another email address for the guy that sold me the ps2 tray motors. parts@ps2parts.com
you need to ask him about the tray motors for the older big style ps2. the slim line ps2 doesn't have a tray, so what you need isn't in them. he should remember what motor your needing, tell him it's the same one i got to repower old trains.
there are two types of this motor. the only difference is one has wires, & the other has to have them soldered on. i like the ones that need no soldering because the terminals are very small. but if thats all he has left i would use them. i took on apart last night, i'll try to post some pics of it later today.
jerry
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Posted - September 12 2009 : 8:25:28 PM
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Thanks again Smokie.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 12:37:10 AM
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i did it again. i did one in one of my golden eagle engines today. it turned out great too. so fare so good.
to save you some time, the red wire from the motor hooks to the front truck, the black goes to the rear. i drill a small hole on the top rear of the front truck, & tap it for a 2-56 screw. i use the lower brush spring clip thingy from the power torque (the one that the screw goes through) & screw it down in the hole i drilled & tapped. then i solder the red wire from the motor, & the thin wire that goes on the bottom of the light bulb.
here is a couple pictures. see how much bigger the tray motors armature is v/s the little PT armature.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on September 13 2009 12:42:42 AM
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 09:56:54 AM
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Not only is it bigger, but it's a six pole motor over the usual 3 or 5. Must make those 630's real smooth operators.
- Matt -
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 11:13:59 AM
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quote:Not only is it bigger, but it's a six pole motor over the usual 3 or 5. Must make those 630's real smooth operators.
Originally posted by MM 1498-September 13 2009: 09:56:54 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. The magnet ring is thin, tho, so I wonder how much torque they can generate.
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 11:39:25 AM
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quote:quote:Not only is it bigger, but it's a six pole motor over the usual 3 or 5. Must make those 630's real smooth operators.
Originally posted by MM 1498-September 13 2009: 09:56:54 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. The magnet ring is thin, tho, so I wonder how much torque they can generate.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759-September 13 2009: 11:13:59 AM
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Wow, that is really thin! I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. 
- Matt -
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 12:18:36 PM
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they are very strong. you wouldn't think they would be but they are real pullers. they need more weight for the power they have. i added it in the ICG, but not the others (yet). your right, they run real smooth too. i honestly love they way they turned out. as the power torques go up in smoke, i'm replaceing them with these.
jerry
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 3:40:22 PM
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Jerry,
Thanks for the information on these motors. I emailed the guy for a quote, mentioning a fellow train enthusiast had purchased from him, he quoted 2 for $15 shipped. Looks like the price has risen a bit. I googled the same motor and found a few placed selling them for $7.99 w/o shipping. Looks like your guy is the way to go.
Tom
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 7:59:53 PM
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did you yell him "just the tray motor"? i had to tell him he could keep all the gears & other thing's that i just needed the motors. like i said, i bought six for $24.00 shipped. if i had a camcorder i would do a how to video.
jerry
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Posted - September 13 2009 : 10:24:25 PM
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Hi Jerry,
I did mention I needed the motor, I didn't specify I didn't need the tray and gears. I did mention you purchased 6 for $25 and figured that would be what info was needed. I'm getting the 2 for 15, if they come with the trays and gears I'll know to be more specific next time.
Tom
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Posted - September 14 2009 : 12:48:40 AM
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I'm glad those motors are working out for you guys.
Hopefully a cheaper source can be found.
I picked up a couple more portable CD players at yard sales for 25 cents each. one has a 5.9V motor and the other seems to be 3V.
The 5.9V motor is an RF-400CA-1D350
Ray
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Posted - September 19 2009 : 5:32:03 PM
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I went to a rummage sale at a local church and bought a Walkman for $2. I got the motor out but it doesn't have wires it has a strip and I had trouble getting power to it. It's very slim and has a brass pulley attached that might be useable.
Alco Fan
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Posted - September 19 2009 : 8:18:50 PM
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I did my own conversion last about a week ago (a Chattentorque? Frankenooga?  ). I used a Mitsumi disk tray motor, which isn't as thin as the one from the Playstation. As a result, I had to turn down the dummy wheel on the center axle to clear it, which means it isn't a candidate for 6-axle diesels. It's only 3 poles, but very quiet and smooth. I took a brass pinion from an early PT truck (a Mark I, if I'm not mistaken, according to GIC,), because it had to be drilled out for the 2mm shaft, so I didn't want to mess with the white metal version. The teeth shouldn't wear down on the brass pinion, either.
You can see in the closeup that I drilled the block for mounting screw holes. It was a little finicky (and the fact that the vent holes in the motor block are not on center with the original bearing hole threw me -- I thought my template was off), but it ended up working out well. I had to countersink the bottom screw to clear the reduction gear, and I left the top screw hole oversized so that I could adjust the gear mesh.
It runs much better now, with a very stable low speed crawl. The top end isn't nearly as fast as it was with the stock motor, and it runs cool.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 19 2009 10:03:05 PM
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Posted - September 19 2009 : 8:40:34 PM
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looks great to me.
for anyone wanting to use the playstation motor like i'm using. i figured out a little trick to get the shaft out further, so the block doesn't need to be cut as deep. i'll try to post a picture of how to do this in a day or two.
jerry
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Posted - September 21 2009 : 10:04:49 PM
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I put resistors on the last 2 motors I replaced. i don't remember the size. I think it affects the draw electricity, if that's correct, and they seem to require a bit more throttle for similar results.
Alco Fan
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javier
Switcher
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Posted - November 06 2010 : 3:57:50 PM
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Dear Jerry, I have a question (I'm new in this).... ;)
Did you have to dril the pinion gear to get the size of the motor axle? This is because the pinion gear originally comes with a minor diameter that you can find in cd tray axle motors.
Thank you. I understand this is quite an old thread...
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Posted - November 07 2010 : 10:40:37 AM
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quote:Dear Jerry, I have a question (I'm new in this).... ;)
Did you have to dril the pinion gear to get the size of the motor axle? This is because the pinion gear originally comes with a minor diameter that you can find in cd tray axle motors.
Thank you. I understand this is quite an old thread...
Originally posted by javier - November 06 2010 : 3:57:50 PM
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The pinion has a (I think) 1 mm hole to fit on the power torque armature shaft, the motor I put it on has a 2 mm shaft, so it had to be drilled.
jerry
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