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 Posted - December 22 2008 : 3:15:12 PM
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I was cleaning up today when I came across an F-7 I bought a few months ago. I never paid much attention to it as it's somewhat broken, but when I looked at it today I noticed something I'd never seen before. There is a little symbol on the orange stripe just behind the door...it looks like the Lionel symbol. I'd always just assumed this was an Athearn, but.......?
-cheez
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Posted - December 22 2008 : 3:28:50 PM
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Made by Athearn for Lionel in the 50's or 60's.
It's widely known that Lionel did not make too much of their own in HO, they subcontracted most of it at one time or another. Athearn was a big supplier for their first foray. Athearn even sold the very same stuff in their own line, so that little "L" was a key "differentiator".
I heard that a few years ago, Athearn dusted off some paint masks for a re-run of classic gondolas, and one of them escaped with "L" intact too.
Nice find by the way.
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Posted - December 22 2008 : 3:49:10 PM
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Ahhh ok. So it is Athearn...but also Lionel This is the only HO Lionel in my collection...I should do something about those broken ladders and try to get this piece running.
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Posted - January 12 2009 : 06:19:50 AM
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It's possible it's faked, too, I'd have to look at it in person I think to tell if it's real. The lettering shows some differences from the ones pictured in my Lionel book. But if it's legit it's a 1958-only 0531. Not all the Athearn equipment sold as Lionel got the L logo, so it would be acceptable to run it with a non-logo B-unit. I picked up shells for the D&RGW units and the A has the logo but the B does not.
Athearn produced all of Lionel's HO trains for about two years and collaborated with them on the rectifier electric loco, before Lionel bought the dies for the Hobbyline and English lines and adapted them as their own.
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Posted - January 13 2009 : 6:23:07 PM
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Faked? As in someone took a regular Athearn F7 and custom painted it with the "L" logo? Why would someone do that? Does the engine (if real) have alot of value?
Is there any way to tell whether or not it's real? It's got couple pockets with hornhooks that use springs so I'm pretty sure it's older. There are also a few paints chips where bare white plastic is showing through. The nose logo looks like a decal.
-cheez
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Posted - January 28 2009 : 06:42:19 AM
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| The logo doesn't show well enough in the pictures to be sure. They're not worth what they once were, I don't think, but they were worth enough even as early as 1986 that guys were faking them. The L has to match the lettering paint color and have banana shaped legs, and measure 1/8" inch.
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Posted - January 28 2009 : 4:42:42 PM
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Alright, well I can't get a better pic of the logo with my digital camera. The colour of the "L" and "The Milwaukee Road" are the same colour...a sort of golden yellow. The two sticks that make up the L are wider on the ends and get thinner towards the joint. The logo is a little under 1/8 of an inch (about 2.5 mm).
I know that may not help much. If you look at the second pic I posted (click on it to blow it up) you can kinda see how the L is wider on the ends.
-cheez
Edited by - DaCheez on January 28 2009 4:43:32 PM
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Posted - January 28 2009 : 6:22:44 PM
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| Cheez, For what it's worth, I saw an F-unit in a shop last week, and the owner identified it by the road number that started with a 'zero.' He said that's what identifies Lionel Athearns. Of course, I didn't ask if that was always (this one was a New Haven), and it does seem a lot of trouble to fake that little logo.
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Posted - January 28 2009 : 8:22:55 PM
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Hey Adams. I looked on google, and from what i saw I THINK its the catolog numbers (numbers on box flaps) that started with zeros. But I agree with you, it does seem like putting the little L on would be alot of trouble. When I bought this engine, I only paid about $20, and there was a B&O A+B set sitting right next to it, so my guess would be that both sets were legit.
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Posted - January 28 2009 : 9:32:08 PM
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| I hope it's legit--that's a neat find. The NH unit I saw actually had the zero road number printed on it. The owner said it was worth about $50. Chris
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Posted - January 29 2009 : 10:29:45 AM
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When it comes to the Athearn made stuff, pretty much no circle L logo = not Lionel, unless in an original Lionel box. Everything, including the Rectifier locomotive, that Athearn made for Lionel, was also available as an Athearn product. Including that New Haven F7 with the weird white paint scheme and 0272 number - New Haven had real locomotives with numbers that began with a 0, the number itself doesn't mean anything. The Athearn one is worth about $10, unless it's nice or in the box.
One exception are the passenger cars, in which case a 4-digit number with a 0 is what identifies the PRR cars from the regular Athearn. New Haven are identical and Texas Special was a Lionel only roadname. But those were the only ones to actually carry a Lionel-specirfic 0xxx road number.
Best bet for info is the Greenberg's Guide To Lionel HO, Volume 1 (1957-1966). But it's not hard sometimes to find Lionel HO stuff just because people don't know what they have.
If the color matches and the L has the sort of banana shape legs it's probably legit. But it wouldn't be that hard for a guy to have made a rubber stamp or letterpress lead stamp back in the day and used paint instead of ink to stamp logos on common Athearn pieces to make them become rare.
Edited by - lvrr325 on January 29 2009 10:35:11 AM
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Posted - January 30 2009 : 03:49:58 AM
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I have a Lionel GATX tank car with the "T" in front of the numbers... kinda funny to see the new GATX logo on a rivet-assembled model.
The Lionel models are quite a match with the Athearn models.
I also have the Canadian National version of my caboose... it's kind of funny that they would use the brightest colour/color as the chassis base... well, a Lionel is a Lionel... Athearn...
John
almost forgot: The "Milwaukee Road" wings were added onto your sample. You can just about see where it was added... AND, you can basically fix those protruding headlight lenses by inserting them from the inside...
or, just trim the overhang and polish with clear cement.
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
Edited by - zebrails on January 30 2009 03:55:47 AM
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Posted - January 30 2009 : 3:44:00 PM
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Early Athearn and a number of other maker locos used decals for the nose herald, there was no way to screen print the complicated designs onto the compound curves. Lower headlight lens is supposed to be inserted from the inside but that's a common error.
1970s Lionel pieces like that CP caboose are an entirely different animal. They re-used some of the older tooling and slowly switched over to a lot of new tooling as production switched to Kader in Hong Kong or China (the new items would be inherited by Bachmann, with the GP30 shell eventually becoming a Spectrum loco). Greenberg has a second volume for Lionel HO covering those trains that I haven't picked up yet.
But the caboose shell is a copy of Athearn tooling, I'm not sure if it was copied in 1959 or later on. Athearn was always the forerunner that everyone else copied, it seems like, there are AHM, Lionel, Penn Line/Varney/Life-Like and Tyco HO items that all copy Athearn items pretty close.
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Posted - February 04 2009 : 11:17:30 PM
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This Lionel caboose I have had for years, but I just got the Lionel locomotive in a box of other engines.
Mike
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Posted - February 06 2009 : 2:54:22 PM
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Gotta find a home for my Lionel Ho Alco CNR FA set!
-Gareth
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