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 Posted - September 30 2008 : 10:50:08 AM
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It seams most repairs stop when a riveted part stands in the way. In collecting locomotives that use these drives when cleaning and lubing no longer works. Replacement leaves a collector with a few extra nonrunning drives. In repair rivets are made to be removed. The two long rivits holding the bottom plate on the MU2 drive if I remember correctly are made of aluminum, or brass. Both are soft metals. Just holding a sharpe drill bit in a tap handle and turning it is enough to cut the head off the rivet. Putting the drive in a vice held by a soft wood is a good idea. Once the head is cut off, a little proding will remove the long rivet from the drive body. Now here you are with the bottom plate removed and the drive exposed for repair. The axels are removed for cleaning, then clean and undercut the comunitor if necessary. Removal of the armiture is done by , first removing the brushes, then two, two hole plates held in by small screws will free up the armiture. It has been years since I made this repair and this is from memory but the armiture may get stuck by the curved metal plates that are aginst the perminate magnet. These plates may be held in by a screw or another rivet. Removal of this rivet may be necessary to remove and replace the armiture. I sure you will get beyond this point. Check for wires broken from the comuntator segments. In this drive the armiture is fairly well inclosed so foreigh matter getting in to damage the windings should not be a problum. The most common is someone appling power to a seized armiture and burning open the windings. Now everything is clean and oiled you want to replace the axels and close it up but their are no rivets to install. You will find that a common tap ( 6 or 8-32) fits nice into the rivet hole and taps the opening for a screw. Using a flat head screw and countersinking the original hole in the sheetmetal bottom will work well to close up the drive. remember to use a drill bit slightly narower then the screw head.Once completed this makes any further maintance very easy.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on October 07 2008 6:33:44 PM
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Posted - September 30 2008 : 4:56:56 PM
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Hey Frank. Thanks for the tutorial. I may have to try this...several of my MU-2's have a pulse as they run. This may be partially because of weakened magnets, but I'm sure cleaning the motors would help alot!
-cheez
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Posted - September 30 2008 : 6:22:23 PM
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Hey Frank:
Can rivets that match the originals be replaced if desired?
Thanks,
Gareth
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Posted - September 30 2008 : 6:36:07 PM
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quote:Hey Frank:
Can rivets that match the originals be replaced if desired?
Thanks,
Gareth
Originally posted by romcat-September 30 2008: 6:22:23 PM
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You could if you can find them.
I got some in a lot of parts that came from an authorized Tyco service station.
They are an unusual length and may be hard to find.
Ray
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Posted - September 30 2008 : 7:47:38 PM
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[quote]Hey Frank. Thanks for the tutorial. I may have to try this...several of my MU-2's have a pulse as they run. This may be partially because of weakened magnets, but I'm sure cleaning the motors would help alot!
-cheez
The pulse may be a damaged gear.
Frank
toptrain
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Posted - September 30 2008 : 9:02:50 PM
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Hmmm...a broken gear could cause a pulse, but I'm pretty sure the pulse on the motor I'm thinking of is caused by weak magnets. When I turn the engine over and touch the wires directly to the wheels the motor turns fine...I think the magnets are just very weak because the motor can barely move the engine its attached too. It's also very loud...I'll have to look into that O_o
-cheez
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Posted - October 01 2008 : 11:33:08 AM
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Cheez from what you just said it is a electrical pickup problum. You not getting power threw to the motor. Assuming you have already cleaned all wheels the drive needs to be removed from the locomotive body to troubleshoot the problum. Have you done this before? If so good luck!
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on October 01 2008 11:39:16 AM
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Posted - October 01 2008 : 12:31:06 PM
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Hey Ray:
I'm thinking of keeping a MU-2 Tyco as original as possible. A screw in one will just look UN-original!
-Gareth
Edited by - romcat on October 01 2008 7:37:56 PM
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Posted - October 01 2008 : 7:45:34 PM
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Hey Frank. I'm sure electrical pick-up does have something to do with it, but I still think the magnets are part of the problem. Ah well....guess I'll have to tear it apart and see what's wrong
Gareth: If you find an easy way to reassemble the motor while keeping it looking original, please let me know. I always find it annoying when previous owners of my engines have modified them in the most idiotic ways. One of the most common things I see are coupler pockets that have had the pin removed, and a giant hole drilled through the middle with a screw hangin out the bottom. I mean honestly...WTH is so hard to understand about popping the cover off with a screwdriver and then pressing it back on with a new coupler inside!?
-cheez
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Posted - October 01 2008 : 10:23:11 PM
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quote:Hey Ray:
I'm thinking of keeping a MU-2 Tyco as original as possible. A screw in one will just look UN-original!
-Gareth
Originally posted by romcat-October 01 2008: 12:31:06 PM
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I agree.
If anyone finds a supplier of the right rivets let me know. I used mine up in a hurry.
I guess they could be made on a lathe but it would be time consuming unless you had a CNC lathe.
Ray
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Posted - October 02 2008 : 08:24:05 AM
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Ray do you think you can use brass tubing as a rivet.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - October 02 2008 : 11:50:00 AM
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quote:Ray do you think you can use brass tubing as a rivet.
frank
Originally posted by toptrain-October 02 2008: 08:24:05 AM
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You may be on to something Frank.
Making the head for the top of the rivet that holds the Yoke in place could be done by flaring the end of the tube like a brake line on a car then hammering it flat or just solder a washer of nut on that end. The bottom of the rivets can be rolled to resemble the original with a rivet tool.
Ray
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Posted - October 02 2008 : 5:44:35 PM
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Ray : got to try it. Most hobby shops sell SK or GK brass tubing in various sizes.
frank
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Posted - October 03 2008 : 1:47:29 PM
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Hey Ray:
Can you get me dimensions on an original rivet?
-Gareth
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Posted - October 07 2008 : 6:37:27 PM
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Added a photo of a open MU2 drive in original post of this topic.
frank
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tod513
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Posted - October 08 2008 : 1:41:13 PM
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I have used 3/32 Rivets to fix a dummy.
Edited by - tod513 on October 08 2008 2:14:57 PM
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Posted - October 08 2008 : 3:40:59 PM
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quote:I have used 3/32 Rivets to fix a dummy.
Originally posted by tod513-October 08 2008: 1:41:13 PM
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Looks good to me .. Serves the purpose. no one will see those rivets unless you are running on a glass track
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Posted - October 08 2008 : 4:45:39 PM
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Hey Tod. Those look great! Ten times better than these giant nuts I keep finding
Where did you buy the rivets?
-cheez
Edited by - DaCheez on October 08 2008 4:46:09 PM
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Posted - October 08 2008 : 4:57:38 PM
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Here is one of my MU2's repaired.
frank
toptrain
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tod513
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Posted - October 09 2008 : 09:32:16 AM
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| The rivets came from a local hardware store.
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Posted - January 05 2009 : 8:08:08 PM
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| Thanks for the info. When I get it all apart is rubbing alcohol what I need to use? What strength or % ? Why would it matter? I have 91% isopropyl on hand. Sorry I posted as an "event" initially. I contacted moderator to see if that mistake could be corrected.
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Posted - January 05 2009 : 9:54:33 PM
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| Mod here... there's no method provided for us to "move" a topic to the correct forum, or convert an event to a plain topic, etc.... so since there was only just Matt's very astute reply, I deleted the "event". Feel free to open a new topic again yourself if need be!
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Posted - January 05 2009 : 11:04:54 PM
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Foster,
90% alcohol is what I use. It's plastic safe, and goes through old oil and grease very quickly. I have soaked brushes in stronger solvents like paint thinner or Gumout carburetor cleaner when alcohol doesn't cut it, but those have to be kept away from paint and plastics.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - May 07 2009 : 08:52:28 AM
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quote:You will find that a common tap ( 6 or 8-32) fits nice into the rivet hole and taps the opening for a screw. Using a flat head screw and countersinking the original hole in the sheetmetal bottom will work well to close up the drive.
Originally posted by toptrain-September 30 2008: 10:50:08 AM
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tt:
Very good tip!
One word of warning, though. The alnico magnet is magnetized after assembly, with the flux path closed by the armature. Removing the armature will interrupt the flux path and permanently weaken the magnet...it's something that happens with alnico motor magnets.
If the armature absolutely must be removed, make up a "keeper" out of steel that can be placed over the motor and provide an alternate flux path while the armature is out. A small C-clamp might do it.
A weak magnet will make a motor weaker, faster, and hotter. It will draw a lot more current. Motor magnets can be recharged with a large electromagnet, or they can be replaced with NdFeB supermagnets, which will provide a big performance boost over even the brand-new alnico.
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Posted - May 07 2009 : 09:11:11 AM
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| I'd rather use nuts or screws tho Then it's easier to take apart
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 07:34:58 AM
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Here is a link to a rivet supplier. The dimensions appear to be very similar to MU-2 size. http://www.rivetsinstock.com/rivet12.htm
If someone here buys a bag of them let me know. I would like half a dozen.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - May 28 2009 : 08:23:47 AM
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Use of screws with nuts. If you look at my photos you'll see only screw heads. I ran a taped thro the rivet hole allowing for the use of screws only. Now for any maintance you need only to remove a few screws. You don't even have to remove the drive from the loco body.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on May 28 2009 08:26:26 AM
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