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 Posted - November 07 2006 : 7:30:12 PM
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i was wondering, only having experience with Lifelike in the last few years, did they always use the pancake motor?
Thanks
Alex
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Posted - November 07 2006 : 7:43:59 PM
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I have a few older Life-Like F-units, that use a variety of different drives.
One early drive was a crude, clunky, square, open-frame job that was center-mounted to the frame, and connected to the geared truck via a driveshaft (the other truck did electrical pickup). You can spot this drive by the presence of a screw underneath the frame, to hold the motor. My examples are noisy and don't run well - this could be age and use before I got them but really, it's a very crude design.
Some early Life-Likes also had separate frames for each truck, like Tyco. I seem to recall another drive that used a motor-truck with stacked gears on the inset end, but maybe that wasn't life-like's motor. I will have to look at home.
The pancake drive (made by Kader), lousy as it is, really is leagues better than those older drives. Bachmann used the same one. They run OK but the gears on the axles have a BIG tendency to split with age, even in storage - which causes a clicking noise and stuttering if they manage to run.
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on November 10 2006 12:09:48 AM
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Posted - November 07 2006 : 10:18:56 PM
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yeah, thanks for that
i dont know which is better Power Dork or the Kader "rice cake" (hey, its all i can think of thats not appealing)
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Posted - November 08 2006 : 11:29:58 AM
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It's interesting to me how much Life-Like liked to promote this poor drive. If you review catalogs from the '80s, you'll find Life-Like promoting what I believe they called a UNI-DRIVE motor with great pride. They also bought ad space in Railroad Model Craftsman and Model Railroader talking about how well their F40PH and GP-38-2 diesels performed. Seems like there are boastful bursts in catalogs comparing a Life-Like to the Kader-Bachmann GP-30 and Model Power's Cox GP-9 clone. Life-Like would claim its locos pulled more freight cars and performed better than the other makers.
I suppose it may be true that back then the Bachmann power inside that GP-30 wasn't much and I can't say on Model Power's drives but don't think they were much either...however it is amazing to me that this same traction tired one-truck drive still finds itself in use! With the quality of the all-wheel drive and solid performance you get from say a current standard line Bachmann GP40...it's stunning that Life-Like still sells this poor drive in the train set line GP-38-2 models. Life-Like also still equips these beasts with X2F couplers and not knuckles.
Bachmann has advanced the quality of basic train set offerings with good drives, metal wheels and body-mounted knuckle couplers and Life-Like is still doing talgo trucks and plastic wheels on freight cars. Life-Like has stayed firmed planted in the 1970s with its offerings, while Bachmann has moved well ahead. The only really positive upgrade in Life-Like sets is the inclusion of the company's roadbed track in most sets today.
Perhaps Walthers will do something to improve this and then again maybe not. I will give Life-Like very good points for making the Proto 1000 train sets. The Proto 1000 train sets are equal to, if not maybe a bit better than the standard line Bachmann set. But then you've also moved away from Life-Like's basic line in that case to its mid-level products to equal or slightly better Bachmann's base.
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 09 2006 : 12:56:54 PM
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Here's some pics of the older drives:
Version A: separate frames
Note the holes in the F-Unit shell behind, to mount the trucks, in similar fashion to Tyco. They at least did a nice job being discreet in the cab ladder, though.
I disconnected the wires accidentally, but this would be a better dummy anyhow. The power truck is kinda fun to watch, but really runs terribly. The absolute worst of any running secondhand loco I've ever come across.
Version B: same motor as "A" on a full-frame
Note that the F-Unit shell does not change; the holes are still present.
My guess is that Life-Like swiched to this full-frame design when they introduced their GP38-2; I have a couple GP38-2's equipped with this drive. It's not much better than the power-truck version... but it actually sounds kinda cool.
I don't have pics of the KaderCake drive; as Tony C pointed out, you can still find those today... [B)]
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on March 27 2009 10:27:50 PM
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Posted - November 09 2006 : 6:56:05 PM
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I have a F40PH with the same drive as the Chessie unit.
And that first pictured drive IS the worst motor drive I have seen also.
I used to work in a train store when I was 12 years old and we couldn't
give those things away!
Carl T.
President of the Cape James Terminal RR.
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Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:52:40 PM
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I'll add to Tony L.'s survey of Life-Like drives with a gruesome look at the mentioned Kader-Bachmann pancake drive.
He said he didn't have an example, so I went digging and pulled out this Norfolk & Western custom Bachmann F40PH...I think this is an example of the drive. Somebody say, if it's not...
This drive arrives in the Bachmann line around the mid-'70s and remains until the '90s without much alterations. This example is a late '80s version with what are still decent EMD truck castings. The original truck side frames are horrible totally flat monsters that were truly poor. I'll dig up an example of that one soon.
This drive was used in the GP40, F-9A, F40PH, U36B, GP30, and possibly others by Bachmann.
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:54:08 PM
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By the way, that N&W F40PH is wearing an Overland Models brass horn. Probably worth more than model itself. [;)]
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:57:31 PM
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Yeah, I didn't have a Life-Like Kader unit to demo.
My Lionel BN "181" GP30 has it though... AND those TERRIBLE flat trucks!
That's not a bad idea for a paint job on that N&W F40, by the way. Lose the yellow rectangles, and it's sort of believable in a D&H-inspired way. I like it. But I'll admit that I've done stuff like the yellow boxes in my day ;)
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on March 27 2009 10:29:41 PM
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Posted - November 10 2006 : 12:12:32 AM
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Yellow Boxes? You lost me?[?]
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 10 2006 : 12:14:43 AM
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Here's another Kader drive with directional headlights and the earlier flat EMD trucks...
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 10 2006 : 12:16:40 AM
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quote:| Yellow Boxes? You lost me?[?] |
The parts of the body that are painted yellow - seem to make some rectangular boxes along the side...
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on November 10 2006 12:22:52 AM
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Posted - November 10 2006 : 12:26:51 AM
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More KaderCakes:
The original Blomberg M. Ugh... yes it truly does look like a carved piece of flat styrene. Maybe this is where the term "Pancake Truck" originated from? [:D]
Revised Blomberg M - A little better, but not great.
Blomberg B, from a mid-80's Bachmann F9 I got new. Now they're getting somewhere!
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on March 27 2009 10:31:10 PM
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Posted - November 10 2006 : 7:18:03 PM
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Tyco Fans,
Did you ever notice the similarity between the armature of the power torques and armature in the old Aurora HO racecars? Are the Kader pancakes close enough to make anyone think that they were made by the same company as well?
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on December 24 2006 11:20:45 PM
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 12:26:36 AM
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| I have a LL RS11 and C415 that are from the 70's. Both have a 3 pole open frame motor that is mounted vertically in the powered truck. The commutator is at the top, 3 poles in the center and the armature shaft runs to the gears at the bottom of the truck. Was this motor a carry-over from the Varney line? Both locos were made in Yugo.
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 1:31:53 PM
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The Life-Like RS11 is certainly a carry-on from Varney. LL picked up the C415 as American, Train & Track exits the market. And as you noted both are Yugoslovia-made gems. The early '70s LL Century 628 shares the shell and motor design of the RS11 and C415.
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 7:34:42 PM
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TC ,
Is the Zenith U-boat a custom ?
Alco Fan
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Posted - November 14 2006 : 7:47:33 PM
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quote:TC ,
Is the Zenith U-boat a custom ?
Originally posted by Alco Fan - November 14 2006 : 6:34:42 PM
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Yes and No. It's not custom-painted by me or anything...but it was a custom run train set item done by Bachmann for Zenith.
The orange-and-yellow U36B lettered for Zenith headed up a Bachmann-made train set in the early '80s. It was not cataloged and was not a regular stock item from B'man as far as I've been able to determine. I have what I think is the complete set and it also includes a Wide-Vision Caboose, Hopper, Box Car, and Tank Car all with various Zenith names on them.
I've seen at least one other Zenith train set. The second one appears to be late '80s or 1990s and maybe is IHC-Mehano made. It features to 2-6-0 Mogul, but there is only one Zenith lettered piece in the this set from what I remember. It's a Zenith Box Car, I think.
Where do all these special train sets come from anyway? And why is it that I never stumble upon them until years later at inflated prices on eBay or at swap meets! [V] I did pick up this Zenith set for like $25 some years back at a swap meet in Illinois...so I do score 'em from time to time.
Tony Cook
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Posted - November 15 2006 : 6:49:03 PM
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TC,
I sold a Coke set a few years ago I now wish I had back. Wish I had bought a John Deere set on sale a W-mart plus an old Foodland Groceries set a few years back, and all the other trains I passed on.
AF
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alcopj
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Posted - August 25 2007 : 12:59:15 AM
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| I think another critical factor in the poor perfomace of the life-like basic line of locomotive was life-likes use of cheep brass wheels. They work well as long as they are on nickle silver raills. Take them off those and and any of these locomotives will start to give big problems.
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Posted - December 08 2008 : 08:53:29 AM
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quote:I think another critical factor in the poor perfomace of the life-like basic line of locomotive was life-likes use of cheep brass wheels. They work well as long as they are on nickle silver raills. Take them off those and and any of these locomotives will start to give big problems.
Originally posted by alcopj-August 25 2007: 12:59:15 AM
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a:
Well, my railroad is built out of scrounged train-show snap track, with a mixture of materials. I've got primarily brass, with some steel (some Tyco, some Life-Like) and nickel silver. I have a couple of Lifelike pancake F7s, too, and they work all right for a trainset loco. They do get run a lot, pulling my track cleaning cars, which is good for any model engine. They sure go fast. :)
I don't have many problems with dirty brass. I use 600 grit SiC paper to clean off heavy brown oxide from storage, and after that I don't touch it with anything coarser than 1200 grit crocus cloth or an alcohol-dampened rag. I think the use of coarse abrasives causes most problems with brass.
For some reason, the LL pancake seems a lot more durable than Bachmann's version. They don't seem to get split gears as often, for instance.
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