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 Posted - October 23 2006 : 7:47:04 PM
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Why exactly did Tyco stop makin trains??
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jlong
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 Posted - October 23 2006 : 9:33:12 PM
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Hard to say. There was a downswing with train sales in the early 90's. They may have seen a loss in profit and decided to ditch us.[V]
John Long
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 11:32:46 AM
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John pretty well hit the nail on the head. Tyco's corporate bean counters had--as Tony C., Tony L., NYC and others have written--expanded into many toy lines by the end of the eighties. All those other lines were more profitable than the old bread and butter toy trains market. (Lionel attempted vitrually the same diversification in the ugly early sixties.
they sold slot cars, "inventor sets", erector-type assembly sets, phonograph players--anything to increase their ever-dwindling profits due to a downturn in toy train sales.
Lionel's trains survived (after a fashion). Tyco diversified more successfully to those other lines (albeit, they failed with those in the end as well). Therefore they simply abandoned toy trains. There was no longer any lingering brand loyalty or old-hand Tyler family influence to retain Tyco trains.
Another point to consider, though, is hidden in the semantics of your question "Why did Tyco stop makin trains?"
They stopped making trains long before 1990, when they found out they could let foreign manufacturers make 'em while they just marketed 'em.
Sad.
MagAc
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 11:57:17 AM
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The story of Tyco is indeed rather bizarre. MagAc gives a very good summary. If I may flesh out a few more details regarding the final decade:
In a true bit of bitter irony, the very things the company was founded on - trains - were the first to go. While a late push of revitalized blue kit and set boxes is seen in the early nineties, the trains themselves are shadows of their former selves, and Tyco sells out completely by 1993 - kits and cars to IHC.
The ever-popular R/C car lines continue to innovate and expand (who can forget the commercials for "TYCO 9.6v TURBO POWER!!!"), and gimmicky girl's dolls seem to hit the sweet spot of the market every christmas without fail...
...so much so, that a certain Segundo, California based empire of HotWheels and Barbiedoll fame comes knocking. Tyco was purchased by Mattel in the late 1990's (Mattel also purchases Lesney/Matchbox at this time. Looking to keep up, rival Hasbro absorbs Kenner and many other competitors as well). The slot cars are all but abandoned and dolls are all Mattel in name, but Mattel actually continues to use the strong Tyco R/C brand as late as 2003 (as I recall) before the Tyco name vanishes for good.
The last product I have from the "independent" Tyco is an animated Cookie Monster doll that was given to me new as a gag gift in 1998. My daughter loves it...
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on October 24 2006 12:22:04 PM
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 12:11:29 PM
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Circlez:
Great exposition on the excruciating and lingering death of Tyco as a brand. (Certainly far more than I knew on the sad subject.)
I glad of heart you allow your daughter play with your animated cookie monster doll. Sharing is a great life lesson, after all.
MagAc
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 12:32:56 PM
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Always glad to oblige. And glad to share too... My fondness for the character of Cookie Monster is renowned, but it just seemed more fitting to let my daughter feed him the cookie instead, LOL.
The decline of Tyco is sad. I mean, I rip on powertorques and ratty paint jobs all day long, but the truth of the matter is that there was a lot of innovative stuff born in New Jersey. Certainly the action accessories are very lionel-like in color, durability, and execution... and Tyco was still investing in new ones as late as the early 80's. Even US-1 was a very innovative take on a tried and true idea. The "Contemporary Series" building kits are still hightly sought after. Even beyond trains... for every lame dud like "super blocks" and Garfield phones there was great stuff like some of those aforementioned R/C cars. And "TCR" slot cars that could CHANGE LANES? Get outta town! [}:)]
I really would love to see a book that catalogs the Tyco offerings and their legacy, like what the Lionel and Gilbert guys have.
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jlong
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 1:33:30 PM
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quote:| I really would love to see a book that catalogs the Tyco offerings and their legacy, like what the Lionel and Gilbert guys have. |
I would like to see a Tyco collector's book too. Plus one on AHM. Like the Athearn book.
John Long
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 2:54:51 PM
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With almost forty years of output (Little Trains 'til brand demise) there would probably need to be separate books for trains and slots plus misc. toy lines, excepting simply reprinting the catalog run (an expensive but not over-long proposition, perhaps thru somebody like Schiffer or Krause Publications.)
Krause is a perfect venue for a Tyco slots and R/C car collecting guide and catalog offering reprint. (Heck, for all I know about slot collecting they may have already published one.)
Still, the trains were the bread n' butter for decades. Tyco trains--certainly today's most overlooked, ignored and maligned major train line of U.S. manufacture--are most deserving of a good guide and catalog reprint.
Save me a cookie, Circlez!
Mag-ookie-monster
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 4:39:30 PM
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| I think that there are still some RC cars bein made that use the Tyco/RC name. I assumed that Tyco had probably stopped selling trains due to the fact that not as many ppl were interested in model trains. Most of their later stuff was aimed at kids and Tyco stopped sellin them around the time that videogames got popular...right?
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 7:01:47 PM
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Just for Giggles and Grins, a friend of mine is in the railroad book publishing business. I'll be seeing him the night before thanksgiving, let me fly that up the flagpole and see if he salutes.
In the 3 rail world, there's books on Marx, plenty on Lionel, a few on MTH, same with Flyer, there's also plenty out there on Hot Wheels and Barbies, there might be an intrest in Tyco/Mantua.
Who all wants to contribute photos and copy?
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 7:57:23 PM
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More germane, perhaps, are price guides and collector's guides in vintage HO Hi-Rail including books on HO Lionel, Varney, HO Marx, Gilbert, Athearn, Marklin.
It has certainly been done before, Tyco is just conspicious in its absence.
As I recall the Athearn Collector's checklist sold pretty well.
MagAc
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Posted - October 24 2006 : 8:27:56 PM
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I would love to contribute, as I think my posts here have borne out. And I probably only have 3% (if even that) of what some of the guys here do.
Price guides are useless in the age of Ebay. Can't speak too certainly of all model-railroad related ones, but the prices in the Lionel HO books seemed woefully inflated. But they were conservative compared to the pie-in-the-sky prices published in DieCast Digest (Nascar/hotwheels).
Tomart's price guides for HotWheels are somewhat reliable, but you need to won a collection of cigars and brandy sniffers (and have traded a single hotwheel for a real car) before you subscribe, I think.
If you absolutely want to destroy a hobby, Beckett is your guide - Just ask all the trading card clowns...
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Posted - October 25 2006 : 12:08:09 PM
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Actually, I was thinking more of an identification guide, rather than a price guide.
For example:
(Photos of versions here) {this listing is an example, I don't know what roadnames and variations there are on this, but, it's an idea}
Tyco Alco C-430
Made in Spirit of 76, Rock Island, Penn Central, Chessie System and Burlington Northern.
Made from 1966 to 1991
Came with single motor Power Torque, dual motor Power Torque, Single motor horzontal motor, dual horzontal motor, and Dummy.
Many varatioins, (list of variations)
What do younz think?
(I'm going to post this on it's own too, leat's see jjust how much interest there is in here, then go from there)
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Posted - October 25 2006 : 3:41:57 PM
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Blaisdell and Urmstrom's "Standard Guide to Athearn Trains" grew out of a couple of previously published Athearn Checklists. The checklist approach seems to be the tack taken by New York Central and I think it a sensible one. The success of the Athearn Guide (most certainly not a price guide or product history) in the marketplace bears this avenue of approach out regarding a Tyco offering.
There is a secondary need for a comprehensive picture and word history of Tyco and Mantua with reprint of catalogs and other ephemera as well as color and B&W pix of 75 years worth of offerings but I think they are two separate animals.
MA
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Posted - October 25 2006 : 4:58:52 PM
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Even though I am about to ditch my collection...I am still a fan, and would like to continue my participation.
Tyco was purchased by Consolidated Foods Corporation in late 1970, which immediately looked to get more bang for their buck (possibly a forebearer of our current outsourcing situation) by outsourcing the HO train line 85%. When the TYCO logo changed from the stencil-like graphic (red box logo) to what we are all familiar with now (the brown box logo), the tooling was already in place in Hong Kong.
VERY few things were produced in Woodbury Heights after 1971. Plymouth Switchers, the 33pc. Lighted Scenic Accesory Set, and Parts Fulfillment. That's about it.
About a book:
A bonafide book was actually started about 10 years ago by a guy named Joe Crone out of Indiana. He and one other guy (unknown) began compiling the basics; paint, power, variations, etc. and also alot of minutae, such as chassis variations, wheelset variations, and other variations that would otherwise go undocumented. He worked on the book for about 5 years, and then POOF. Disappeared.
I never participated in the book with him, but offered several research leads to him, and then he dropped off the earth a few years ago. I do not have his email addy.
There are several folks I have purchased from over the years around Timonium, MD that have ALOT of knowledge on variations, promo cars, locomotives, and production runs.
I am thinking that a Tyco HO book will look ALOT like the Athearn softback. Someone should find the last Tyler to run Mantua, drop him an email, and get something started!
I am sure there are alot of Jerseyians that worked at Tyco prior to the Hong Kong/Consolidated Foods buyout that would be willing to assist a team of researchers.
Edited by - theoldreliable on October 25 2006 4:59:56 PM
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Posted - October 25 2006 : 9:14:47 PM
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Yeah, I'm all for the checklist/catalog combo. Price guides are useless (USELESS!!!) and really data a publication quickly.
Perhaps the sheer volume of info might ultimately prove overwhelming, but I'd like to see a combined checklist/ color guide if at all possible. Just nice to have it all in one place as a cohesive work.
Perhaps a book could be divided into volumes, say Little Trains - Blue; Red box; brown box; slots & other... The color guides for large legacy railroads are often divided this way, by "era" such as they can be defined.
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Posted - October 25 2006 : 9:19:00 PM
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ALSO.... went to WallyWorld tonight and what else was there but an endcap of "Tyco RC" branded RC cars by Mattel. SO the Tyco name lives, although as a mere shadow. I honestly thought the last I saw of those was a couple years ago, but I'll admit I don't pay much attention to the RC products.
Also took another look at that Cookie Monster. The tag says "Yum Yum Cookie Monster; (C) 1997 TYCO Preschool Toys, Inc; a division of Mattel, New York New York" So I guess they were bought earlier than I recall... [Oops!] but that seems about right once I put more thought into it. I know Matchbox started adding "Mattel Wheels" bugs on the cards about 1997-1998 or so.
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Posted - October 26 2006 : 4:24:08 PM
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Yes the Tyco name lives. The most popular item that Tyco has made recently was the Terrain Twister (atleast thats what I think). I believe it came out 2 years ago for christmas and as far as I know they still have it in most toy stores. I don't actually have one of these but some of my friends do and they all tell me it works great.
I haven't seen one recently, but I know that it was not long ago that you would see the Tyco/RC commercials on TV. I think they were the ones where the mouse would pop up and say "what are you driving?!?!" (Or am I thinking of Chuck E. Cheeses??)[:D]
-cheez
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Posted - October 26 2006 : 7:54:50 PM
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kids these days...
Hey Reliable! Remember when your dad used to give you a hammer, nails and workbench scrap and tell you to go make yerself a toy?
Talking cookie monsters, radio controlled race cars, interactive video games... man did we get screwed.
MA
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Posted - October 27 2006 : 5:10:36 PM
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Ok...so we are a little spoiled but I never wanted a talking cookie monster...I'm not that stupid. The RC cars are kinda cool but the ones that are actually affordable don't last forever. I do have one really good one that I've had since I was 6 or 7, but I've had to take it apart a few times to fix and clean it. Some of them are not quite as good as you might think...and now that I think about it, my RC car suffered from the same problem as several of my Tyco engines. The gear slid off!!!
-some ppl think R.C. cars...I think I.C. Cheez!!!!! yum...
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Posted - October 28 2006 : 11:26:50 AM
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quote:| Ok...so we are a little spoiled but I never wanted a talking cookie monster...I'm not that stupid. |
LOL, I didn't "want" it either but when some dear friends gave it to me as a joke, I was actually very excited to see it. Maybe they knew I'd be a dad someday...
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Posted - October 28 2006 : 12:28:24 PM
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LMAO!! When I said I didn't want it I meant I didn't want or get it. It just seems kinda silly to me. It's like those Tyco commercials that were posted here. They make it look like the train and everything it comes with is so much cooler than it actually is. Not that it isn't cool, they just make it look like its so much cooler. Same thing for the talking cookie monster. It says a few phrases and then it just keeps repeating them over and over and over and over and...you get my point.
-cheez
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 Posted - October 28 2006 : 3:33:45 PM
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Hey MagAc..
YUP. I rememebr empty cardboard boxes and big magic markers. At 10AM I had a spaceship. After lunch I had a delivery van. After "nap time" I had a submarine. All from one empty appliance box.
On the flipside...
I once built an "atom smasher" with an erector set...and a petri dish set at the base as the supercollider.
Back in the "good ole days" of radio shack chemistry sets and fertile imaginations (read: no Nintendo or Playstation), I got the BRILLIANT idea (from science lab in junior high, of course) to build an erector-set tower and place a petri dish at the bottom, and took an eye-dropper full of lab-grade liquid magnesium, set it ablaze, and watched it rotate wildly on fire until it went "BOOM!" Dad and Ma were NOT amused. I said, "cool" under my breath, as my dad hit it with an extinguisher.
Did I ever tell y'all about my 1/8th scale radio-controlled AH-64 Apache helicopter that had hollow tubes? Whistling bottle rockets fit PERFECTLY in those tubes, you know. Fly it over to a friend, have 'em light all 12 tubes worth of ammo...zip over to the neighbor's annoying-constantly-barking dog before the stems burned down...it was a SIGHT to behold.
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 Posted - October 29 2006 : 06:57:20 AM
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You guys sound just like my Gr. 7 teacher. He was always telling us stories about when his friend got hit by a car and blew off the end of his finger with a gun. And then when they scraped the paint of the roof of some guys car when they had actually meant to cut a teenager's head off. What was wrong with you ppl!?![:D]
-cheez
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Posted - October 30 2006 : 10:30:49 AM
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Whaddya mean what's wrong with US???
There's a perfectly good world out there...just waiting to be blown-up, set on fire, have donut-ruts left in front yards FROM ATV'S...and r/c attack helicopters loaded to the gills with bottlerockets attacking obnoxious dogs.
I say, WHAT'S WRONG with the rest of the world? Turn off the video games and get outside and CONQUER something!
Did I mention I was 36 (not 13)?
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Posted - October 30 2006 : 11:46:04 AM
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Reminds me of when we would buy those cheapo plastic cars - the ones that were sorta like tonka cars but plastic and not metal - and tape every kind of firework and incendiary device we could find to them. Ahh, nothing like scraping a fresh plastic pancake off the alley with a spatula.
Homemade "napalm" was fun too!
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Posted - October 30 2006 : 5:56:04 PM
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I'm not sayin there's anything wrong with blowin the end of your finger off with a gun or loading fireworks onto a toy truck, but it's the 21st century. I'd love to load fireworks into a toy truck but I can't just walk down to my local pharmacy anymore and buy fireworks, a lighter and a package of crack. THERE ARE RULES. If I could I would...but I can't. The closest I've gotten to blowing something up is a couple of stuff in my house smoking...the computer...a train transformer...the weed eater. Sometimes my friends burn stuff but nuthin like what you guys are talkin about.
-civilized cheez
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jlong
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Posted - November 04 2006 : 01:09:32 AM
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I guess the closest we got to blowing stuff up was with an old high school friend. It was our senior year in high school. The first episode was we made a cyclone foundry out of a metal five gallon pail, vacuum cleaner, and propane torch. It worked allright as we melted aluminum. Except we scorched his bedroom ceiling, melting and blackening the paint. What a gooyey mess that was. The second project actually blew up. It was a metal shop project. We attempted to convert a lawn mower gas engine into a steam engine using the fuel tank as the boiler thinking the steam would drive the piston. No dice. The steam ripped the fuel tank in half before it could push the piston. What a sight. LMAO.
John Long
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