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 Posted - May 27 2008 : 8:41:32 PM
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I just received a mint OB 311T Burlington 40' Box Car in the mail today. I noticed the Mantua diecast frame and wondered if this car was Mantua earlier than '75-'76 that the Tyco Trains Resource site lists as production run? It has metal axles and plastic trucks.
Also this one has open stirrups and the ones in TTR are closed, but the other version with a different # are open.
Any help? I know this isn't a significant car but it's something to talk about.
Thanks.
Alco Fan
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Posted - May 27 2008 : 8:47:25 PM
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| Hey AlcoFan--post a picture of this car--it may help get your answer. i would like to see it[:D]
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 Posted - May 27 2008 : 9:07:07 PM
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Hi,
Yes, Please post a picture.
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - May 27 2008 : 9:58:20 PM
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Gic mentions in an earlier post that Tyco quit using black in the logo as a cost cutting measure.
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Posted - May 27 2008 : 10:33:44 PM
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Tyco cars in the Redbox, BlueBox, and Green/Whitebox (LittleTrains) eras actually did not say "Tyco" on the chassis. They almost always said "Mantua". And most of those were metal besides. The original chassis toolings did not change to plastic until the late redbox/early brownbox eras, depending on the car.
The 40' boxcar dates to the early bluebox era, if not earlier. There were kits available with body-mount couplers as well.
Burlington was a readily available roadname. So what you probably have is a redbox Tyco car (remember these still said "Mantua" more often than not) that someone put in a brownbox. (They probably didn't know any better but at least the label matched, right?)
Redbox versions of the 40' boxcar also have metal door tracks. Early brown-box versions do as well.
It's also theoretically possible that someone could have taken a Brown-box era shell and put it on the superior older chassis...
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 05:50:00 AM
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Do the plastic chassisied cars have the 4 corner peg holes and in the body that the chassis fits in to? The chassis on this has 4 pegs, one in each corner that holds the Mantua chassis in place.
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 08:40:20 AM
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| This one is a mystery--My first thought was what GIC said about a newer shell being placed on an older frame. I've never seen a real metal-frame Burl. car without the black in the herald. Older metal frame boxcars had small screws in each corner holding the shell on, but I think eventually the metal frame boxes just had the corner pegs pressed on. Is the frame bare metal, or is it painted? When Mantua made a comeback in the late 70's, the metal frames came painted. I think if the car, frame, and box are original, you may have something fairly unique. Chris
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tod513
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 09:58:25 AM
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I may be wrong but it does appear to be in the wrong box. I have three Tyco/Mantua burlingtons and they are the same as yours. the only black paint I have is on the gondola and the operating hopper. Does anyone have the boxcar with black paint?
Sorry for the mess.
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 10:35:53 AM
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| I have a red-box with the black in the herald. I have a brown box operating box unloader painted for Burl. w/no black in herald, and I'll have to check later, but I thought my brown box covered gon didn't have black in the herald. It looks by your example that the blackened herald disappeared earlier on some models than I thought. If that's the case, his car could possibly be a correct early brown box.
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 6:19:22 PM
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The bottom is painted black. Looks similar to the Mantua flatcar chassis.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on May 28 2008 7:51:54 PM
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 8:06:42 PM
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Here is a picture to compare two wersions of the CB&Q boxcar
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 8:29:16 PM
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| I'm stumped on this one for now--only if the bottom was a thick, glossy black, would it have been one of the newer Mantuas (in my experience). So, with no more evidence at the moment, my vote goes to it being an early Brown Box (early 70', no later than 74) that still was using the metal frame, but ditched the black herald. I'm going to vote that the box is correct. Anyone else??
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Posted - May 28 2008 : 11:17:45 PM
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I notice it has snap-in trucks with metal needlepoint axles.... this is another hallmark of late-red / early-brown era cars. Since the shell itself also has open steps and appears to have the metal doortracks, I vote for an original early version.
What does the Diamond Date on the box flap say (Two things: 1> looking at the gear like a clock, where is the dot? 2> If there is a number in the middle it will be "71", otherwise there are numbers on the outer perimeter - which one is missing?)
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Posted - May 29 2008 : 06:15:02 AM
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Fellows,
The box flap has 71 inside the gear and says Diamond, Paperbox, Phila. Penna. then I must guess GMF??. This is probably the nicest box I have. The seller had other 40 footers availible but this was a last second bid.
It has metal door sills or rails.
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Posted - May 29 2008 : 08:59:08 AM
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| Don't you love finding a car like this in totally new condition, wheels never having touched a rail, and in a great box--just how it would have looked on the shelf at Sears!
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Posted - May 29 2008 : 09:24:52 AM
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| Congrats - then that IS most likely to correct original box for that car. The box was printed in 1971, the dot on whichever gear tooth would tell you the month. However, the earliest brown boxes (which were all-brown - including the end flaps - and had red text on the back over a bad photo of the tycomatic switch) appeared in May 1971... so you can reasonably assume yours is from June or later.
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Posted - May 29 2008 : 7:35:47 PM
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I forgot to look at the dot. It says November.
Here's the back of the box.
PS; Thanks for the help, its been the most fun in a long time!
It is neat to think that a piece is 23 years old and unused.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on May 29 2008 9:20:00 PM
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Posted - June 04 2008 : 12:59:20 PM
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What are some other interesting 40' Mantua, Tyco boxcars. Is the stock car with metal door rails in that field?
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Posted - June 04 2008 : 3:14:09 PM
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Favorite 40-footers in my collection (pics this evening possibly) are my:
1) Elgin, Joliet, and Eastern--Green w/ yellow lettering, still unassembled in its TycoKit box. 2) NADX "Damage Free", green/yellow, in Tyco's old blue box w/wrap-around box window, and 3) Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo, yellow/black, part of my '59 Mammoth of the Rails set. and 4) Burlington NIB-with black in herald--red box era.
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Posted - June 05 2008 : 06:36:54 AM
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Looking foward to the pics.
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Posted - March 27 2021 : 09:49:37 AM
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"Gic mentions in an earlier post that Tyco quit using black in the logo as a cost cutting measure."
Originally posted by Alco Fan on May 27 2008 at 9:58 PM.
A Tyco classic.
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