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 Posted - April 21 2008 : 2:54:33 PM
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Hi All,
I find it to be a real drag when a perfectly good loco has to sit on a shelf because the rear coupler is broken. So last night I sat down with a loco that had just that problem. I looked at putting on a Kadee coupler box but found that to be quite the pain. So I looked around in my spare coupler parts bin and ran across an athearn plastic coupler box ( thats what I call It anyway ). I found that it would slide onto the truck tab real nice so I thought why not drill out the old pin hole and see if this will pop into place. Well the coupler box did pop into place but it had some up and down slop that let the coupler sag. This slop is caused by the fact that the truck tab is very thin matal and the coupler box is made for something about twice as thick. I solved this by making sure the hole in the truck tab was only as big as the tip of the pin in the coupler box. The base of the pin is wider to keep the coupler box from being pushed down too far and pinching the coupler causing it not to move left and right. This way I could push down on the coupler box and run a bead of hot glue across the bottom making sure to get some glue under the tabs on the coupler pocket. See pictures below. I have only tried this on this style of truck but it looks as if it would work on the other older locos I have with the metal pin holding the coupler in place.
Please forgive me if someone has done this already. Sorry about the picture quality. I hope the way I have this laid out makes it easy to understand. Any comments would be great.
Thanks
Mike
Edited by - mytyco on May 28 2009 11:51:55 PM
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Posted - April 21 2008 : 3:04:12 PM
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That's a good idea.
I will have to try that.
Ray
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Posted - April 21 2008 : 6:05:17 PM
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Hey mytyco. That looks like a good idea. The engine you used has the thinner silver coupler box from the early 60's right, and not the wider black one from later on? I always find those ones a pain to fix because standard horn hooks dont fit in them...you need to cut the tab off the coupler and then put a special wire in.
-cheez
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Posted - April 21 2008 : 10:05:54 PM
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Hey Cheez,
Yes the engine is the older one with the thinner truck tab. The nice thing about doing it this way is that you can use just about any style of coupler with it. At first I had a Kadee #5 in it but decided to stay old school with this loco and put an X2F in it. I have a GP20 with the wider black truck tab and a broken coupler that I may try this on soon.
Mike
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Posted - April 22 2008 : 6:07:02 PM
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I have rebuilt a few of the wider coupler box covers using plain cereal box cardboard. The good thing about them is that they are wide enough to use the tabs on a standard horn hook. To replace the pin for the coupler I use a track nail. Paint the cardboard black and you're good to go.
-cheez
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Posted - April 24 2008 : 08:52:17 AM
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Like how you did that, but it raised a question in my mind... about couplers....what do most of you use...I have a bunch of kadees, but have not converted yet to them, still have the standard plastic ones that are on the units, was thinking of using the accumates versions or just leaving like they are, but understand that the majority of people use the kadees.. what would you all do????? thanks for any imput before I get to far on this project...Garret
"Though amid all the smoking horror and diabolism of a sea-fight, SHARKS will be seen longingly gazing up to the ship's decks, like hungry dogs round a table where red meat is being carved, ready to bolt down every killed man that is tossed to them . . ." by Herman Melville
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Posted - April 24 2008 : 5:53:06 PM
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Hey Puppyfang. Are you talking about Tycos or just HO trains in general?
If couplers are installed right, I don't find that either coupler is better than the other. It all depends how you run your trains and how much you care about detail. If you do alot of switching and like your trains to look "realistic" than use KDs. If you like running trains on a layout and keeping vintage trains "original" than stick with horn hooks.
I like horn hooks better...I find they're less fragile, and look better with the loud, rugged, old engines.
-cheez
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Posted - April 25 2008 : 06:03:50 AM
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quote:...the majority of people use the kadees.. what would you all do????? thanks for any input before I get to far on this project...Garret
Originally posted by Puppyfang - April 24 2008 : 1:52:17 PM
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Keep your couplers. Swapping all the hornhooks could be expensive.
This is what I do...
Cabooses, Hornhook on one end, Kadees on the other... repeat for locomotives and easily identifiable cars.
IHC, does make a coupler called: "Magic-Mates."
This coupler should be sold in bulk. "MM" hook to "MM's" easy. They hook up to X-2F couplers well. Hooking up to Kadee or other knuckle couplers well, but may be tricky seperating them.
Now, that said...
I have over a dozen cars with Horn-Hooks (also known as the X-2F's) that I will never convert.
Why? Well, not all cars I've bought have the knuckle couplers. Buying a conversion kit may cost quite a bit and be a tedious job to undertake.
Plus, many 'cheaper' produced model trainsets have the horn-hooks and may prove in vain to labor in such a task converting them, that is, after you've located all the different types of conversion kits period.
My experience in the couplers:
Best couplers?
Yes, Kadee. Pulling, pushing, long trains, coupling on curves, uncoupling. You can depend on Kadees.
Plastic knuckle couplers... Proto 2000 is second best, but not as dependable as the metal couplers when pushing many cars. They incorporate a tiny plastic finger-like spring to reclose the moving knuckle, the metal glad-hand/brake hose adjustable as Kadees, to a certain degree.
Proto 2000 couplers are black slippery knuckles. They will not last as long as Kadees.
Now, third best are the green knuckle couplers WITH the metal coil springs.
They are also somewhat as reliable as the Proto 2000's but will still retain the flexible closure dependency with that metal spring. It is basically a tie with quality as the Proto 2000, but, lose the spring, and you may not find replacement springs as those that come with the Kadees.
Fourth best...The brown couplers with the same kind of finger spring as the Proto 2000.
Almost nose to nose dependability with the horn-hook couplers. BUT, in pulling a long string of cars... blech! Horn hooks will prove dependable... Except for one thing...
Try pushing a long string of cars with horn hooks... Not a good thing to do.
Couplers that are attached to the truck assembly, when pushed, have a great chance to skew the truck assembly and force them to derail.
Couplers that are attached to the trucks: Talgo Trucks
You will find many toy trains or ready to run passenger cars with Talgo trucks. With horn hooks or plastic knuckles... it may test your patience.
The pro's in Talgo trucks? Sharp curves compatibility!
Athearn trains... Ready To Run trains... I wrote them a note about the "Accu-Mate" couplers. What a disappointment. A fine looking model, rolling quality great... but with these brown knuckles with that tiny plastic finger spring? I don't get it. And, try to remove those and replace them with Kadees... That, in itself, is a bugger of a task to change them over... carefully remove the retaining clip... grrr!
Now, body mounted couplers are more dependable than truck mounted couplers. That works equally on the variety of chosen couplers in order of dependability.
I have locomotives that have the horn hooks riveted to the shell or body. What to do with them?
Make them pull the cars I have with the horn hooks.
Want to make multiple-unit locomotive trains? Those IHC MagicMates should be sought.
The horn hook locomotive in front. The rear locomotive with that Magic Mate, OR a horn hook on the front, a knuckle coupler on the rear. Pulling a long string of cars? Kadee couplers will be your best choice.
It may seem to be expensive, but buying the Kadee 20 pack (if you've chosen that brand) will be the best. Getting them at about $1.00 a coupler is what you want... Okay, you probably will not find that kinda deal at your fav' hobby shop.
When I see a second hand traincar or locomotive, after a bit of hemming and hawing, I will buy it. Buying brand-new rolling stock? Well, you've found this forum on the internet... buying a 20-pack of Kadees from one of many on-line hobby distributors will also put your mind at ease.
Quick choice couplers for body-mounted couplers: Kadees Especially when you want it to perform well.
Talgo trucks? A close tie of all choices... Kadee's still the best. 2nd best, Horn-Hooks.
Now, all that said... Learn the tricks yourself. Ask any questions (er, pertaining to model trains, that is... or any train related subjects or topics.)
 [|)] 
John a.k.a. Zebrails
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
Edited by - zebrails on April 25 2008 06:19:21 AM
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Posted - April 25 2008 : 08:42:01 AM
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Thanks for all the info, it was very informative and helpful, and I agree with you about the kaydee's and the horn hooks, have been doing both have never tried the others but just may after reading your info just to see how they work. Again Thanks for all the imput... great place to get info is here at this forum...Garret
"Though amid all the smoking horror and diabolism of a sea-fight, SHARKS will be seen longingly gazing up to the ship's decks, like hungry dogs round a table where red meat is being carved, ready to bolt down every killed man that is tossed to them . . ." by Herman Melville
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Posted - April 25 2008 : 09:03:13 AM
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| hi guys i have taken the cheaper option,1 freight car and one passenger car has one of the kds at one end and hook and horn other,we call them convertor cars over here,ken
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Posted - April 25 2008 : 09:12:47 AM
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Hey Ken:
I've heard them called that too.
-Gareth
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Posted - May 29 2009 : 01:30:52 AM
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i hates Kadees anyway I'll stick with the originals oh if I got a car with Kadees Would it be hard to change them to the horn hooks?
Edited by - microbusss on May 29 2009 01:31:51 AM
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Posted - May 29 2009 : 11:35:40 AM
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quote:if I got a car with Kadees Would it be hard to change them to the horn hooks?
Originally posted by microbusss-May 29 2009: 01:30:52 AM
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That depends on how the KDs were installed.
I have changed cars back to the horn hook couplers, sometimes it's as easy as removing the KD and installing the horn hook coupler in the same coupler box.
If they cut the coupler mount off the trucks and added a coupler box on the frame, I replace the trucks with original trucks.
Ray
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Posted - January 21 2011 : 02:47:51 AM
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[/quote]
My experience in the couplers:
Best couplers?
Yes, Kadee. Pulling, pushing, long trains, coupling on curves, uncoupling. You can depend on Kadees.
Now, body mounted couplers are more dependable than truck mounted couplers. That works equally on the variety of chosen couplers in order of dependability.
Originally posted by zebrails - April 25 2008 : 06:03:50 AM
[/quote]
When I converted a few Tyco rolling stock I basically Gorilla Glued (very sparingly) a couple of #242 Kadee Snap gear boxes to the frame. Then I inserted the #5 Kadee Couplers. I then inserted some Intermountain Wheels and bam, 100% compatible with my new stuff. However I need to add some weight to the conversions.
Anyhow, he is right the body mounted Kadees rock! I have had more derailment problems with my new stuff than my old Tyco conversions.
The conversion itself is expensive, probably about ~4.3 bucks a car.
Couplers @ 1.33
Gear Box @ .33
Wheels @ 2.64
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Posted - January 21 2011 : 06:20:00 AM
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I don't have a problem with this decision - I have so MUCH rolling stock, I'll have my Kadee cars for club functions, and I'll keep my other stuff for home use. Oh, I've got a converter coupler car ( CCC ? ) in case I want to run some special Tyco or Bachmann at club functions. But I don't envision wholesale conversions. Some, like the AHM Helium cars, I'm putting in Bowser bottom chassis's and mounting Kadee's to those. And some of the Bachmann and Tyco items I do convert occasionally. But I'm mostly going half and half. Long as you're not planning on using them for external uses at club functions where the derailing of hornhook cars by pushing might annoy others in Operations mode, no point in switching them over in my opinion. Leave them original.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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