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 Posted - April 08 2008 : 9:58:47 PM
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Hi All,
I have a Mantua/Tyco red box GP20 that has been sitting on my shelf for quite some time now not working. I decided to clean her up and see if I could find the probem today. One thing I did find was a broken wire on the motor. I did solder it back on. I cleaned the brushes and comutator<spelling? I greased her up put her on the track and she tried to run so I gave her a nudge around the track. It felt very week at full power and started smoking (KOOLS I think)LOL! Anyway it must be pulling a lot of power because it knocked out my MRC trans. after a while of trying. The motor turns without binding and I checked to see where the wire goes on my other GP20 from the same time period. I did not open it as it has the rivets on the motor and I'm not sure how I would close it up.
One bonus was the 2 stanchens I found stuck to the magnet on the motor, I needed them for this unit.
Any thoughts on what to look for on this would be great.
Thanks
Mike
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 Posted - April 08 2008 : 11:29:53 PM
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| Hi-- Once you get past the basics like clean wheels, proper wiring, etc., it's going to be a bit tough without opening up those darned rivets. Maybe you've got some more stanchions in there somewhere! Have the motor bearings been lightly lubed? (VERY carefully through the two small holes in the bottom of the truck, generally facing away from the motor in the middle). If reachable, can you take a small wire/pin and clean out the grooves in the commutator? If all else fails, you could get a can of electrical contact cleaner, and bascially spray the whole thing, soaking it, and letting it drip-dry. I wouldn't be so brutal normally, but I've seen an electrical engineering professor at Washington U. in St. Louis do just that to my old Geep in the early 70's---brought it back to life.
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Posted - April 08 2008 : 11:40:03 PM
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Hi Adams,
I did try to clean the grooves in the commutator and it looked fairly clean. I will grab a can of the electrical contact cleaner tomorrow and try that. Is the cleaner safe for plastic like the truck side frames and gears?
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - April 08 2008 : 11:53:19 PM
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quote:Hi Adams,
I did try to clean the grooves in the commutator and it looked fairly clean. I will grab a can of the electrical contact cleaner tomorrow and try that. Is the cleaner safe for plastic like the truck side frames and gears?
Thanks
Mike
Originally posted by mytyco - April 09 2008 : 04:40:03 AM
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I don't think all contact cleaners are plastic safe, but the stuff from MG Chemicals available at Radio Shack is.
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Posted - April 09 2008 : 12:05:59 AM
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Hi NickelPlate759,
Thanks for the info. I will check that out tomorrow.
Mike
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Posted - April 09 2008 : 12:42:08 AM
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my UP gp20 does not work. the wires are all fixed. the wheels are a bit stuck and i dont have any grease. i push it around and it squeaks! i used a couple of strong engines to push it and the engine behind the gp20 almost falls over. if you see whats wrong please PM me. Thanks.
What to do with a balloon, a needle, and ketchup: get ketchup all over yourself, pop the balloon, then yell "i've been shot!"
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Posted - April 10 2008 : 8:39:21 PM
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Mike: Have you checked traction tires? They may have gotten greasy over the years or cracked off. The way I replace them is by taking the hair elastics you can buy at Wal-mart and cutting them in half.
-cheez
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Posted - April 11 2008 : 01:05:15 AM
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Hi Cheez,
Yea I did check those. It is for sure something to do with the motor as it is real weak but pulls a lot of power.
Mike
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Roy
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Posted - April 11 2008 : 11:13:23 AM
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quote:| ...It is for sure something to do with the motor as it is real weak but pulls a lot of power. Originally posted by mytyco
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How does the motor run, when you hook the power leads directly to the brush holders?
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Posted - April 11 2008 : 2:36:17 PM
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quote:quote:| ...It is for sure something to do with the motor as it is real weak but pulls a lot of power. Originally posted by mytyco
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How does the motor run, when you hook the power leads directly to the brush holders?
Originally posted by Roy - April 11 2008 : 4:13:23 PM
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Assuming everything's okay mechanically, those are the symptoms of a weak magnet. If it is, you could replace it with one of the new high power neodymium magnets, although a friend told me the MU-2 truck doesn't pivot well with those because they're attracted to the steel part of the bolster.
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Posted - April 11 2008 : 5:18:52 PM
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| Would the gears be binding?
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Posted - April 12 2008 : 01:18:54 AM
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Hi Guys,
I have not tried putting power directly to the brush holders but thanks for the Idea Roy I will give it a shot.
NickelPlate759, how would I remove the rivets to replace the magnets and how would I reattach everything after the operation? I'm thinking some kind of nut and bolt. Any idea the size to use?
I have not had a chance to get the contact cleaner and try that yet with work and all. Could it be shorting out if there is a lot of oil or grease in the motor where there should not be any?
Mike, The motor does not seem to be binding, I can turn it both directions and watch the wheels turn with no problem.
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - April 12 2008 : 01:39:25 AM
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I have an MU-2 truck that had the same symtoms.
I tried new magnets but that didn't do it.
I'm not saying it is the same problem but replacing the armature solved the problem.
I have heard that these motors can become demagnitized and have to be remagnitized as an assembled unit.
here's a link to a site that shows installing a new magnet.
http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/xmpl/mmu2mag.html
Ray
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Posted - April 13 2008 : 01:33:27 AM
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Hey Guys,
Well I did hook the wires up directly to the brushes and it ran like it does on the track. While I had the truck off a piece of the commutator fell out of the truck, So I guess that kind of tells us a little about the problem. Can you replace just the commutator or do you have to replace the shaft and all?
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - April 13 2008 : 12:40:48 PM
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quote:Hey Guys,
Well I did hook the wires up directly to the brushes and it ran like it does on the track. While I had the truck off a piece of the commutator fell out of the truck, So I guess that kind of tells us a little about the problem. Can you replace just the commutator or do you have to replace the shaft and all?
Thanks
Mike
Originally posted by mytyco - April 13 2008 : 06:33:27 AM
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[Oops!] At this point, it's best to look for a new truck. I think someone has an MU2 truck posted in the Trading Post. You would have to replace the whole armature, and even if you could find one removing the old one would break the magnetic field, which would cause you to lose most of the magnetization. The commutator may have cracked due to heat damage anyway.
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Roy
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 12:46:54 AM
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quote:| ...I did hook the wires up directly to the brushes and it ran like it does on the track. While I had the truck off a piece of the commutator fell out of the truck... Originally posted by mytyco
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What piece fell out, specifically? Was it one of the contacts?
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 03:58:20 AM
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Hi Roy,
I do believe it is one of the contacts. There are I think 4 all together. I believe one of the leads is broke off one of the other cantacts.
Mike
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Roy
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Posted - April 14 2008 : 1:29:56 PM
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quote:| I do believe it is one of the contacts. There are I think 4 all together. I believe one of the leads is broke off one of the other cantacts. Originally posted by mytyco
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Mike,
I regret to inform you, that your commutator has been killed in action.[xx(] It'll be easier, and probably cheaper, to replace the entire armature. Be sure to shunt the magnet with a good-sized piece of iron or steel, before removing the armature.
Yes, it is possible to replace the commutator(that may require a pressing operation,) or even fix the old one. But, be sure all your armature poles are good first(none open, or shorted to the shaft.)
Just FYI, there are always an odd number of armature poles, and thus commutator segments(contacts.) This is so there is no dead center, and a motor will start from any position. The fact you had to nudge it to start it was the first clue it was an armature problem.
Edited by - Roy on April 14 2008 1:44:15 PM
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 Posted - April 14 2008 : 6:27:28 PM
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Hey Roy,
Thanks for all the info. I take it that if I were to change the armature I would have to find another MU2 to get it from? Or does someone actually make one the right size? Also did Tyco make any dummy GP20s? I do have a dummy Chatanooga GP20 but I don't know if that was kit bashed or not. I was thinking if push comes to shove I will just take out the gears and make it a dummy and run it with the other powered Burlington Route GP20. That would look nice huh.
Thanks
Mike
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 02:44:31 AM
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Mike, check this listing. $7.50 ain't bad, if he still has it. The EMD sideframes could be swapped for the Alcos.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2750
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Roy
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Posted - April 15 2008 : 07:45:05 AM
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quote:| ...I take it that if I were to change the armature I would have to find another MU2 to get it from? Or does someone actually make one the right size?... Originally posted by mytyco
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I'm sorry, I'll have to leave you here to someone with much more Tyco-specific knowledge. I would advise keeping all the old motor parts, however you choose to go.
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